Transcript or Episode 185 – Curator, Helga-Marie Nordby (Norway + Denmark)

Recorded May 14, 2021
Published June 29, 2021

Full recording here: https://wisefoolpod.com/curator-helga-marie-nordby-norway-denmark/

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Matthew Dols 0:10
Could you please pronounce your name correctly? For me?

Helga-Marie Nordby 0:12
My name is Helga-Marie Nordby, in order to be or Helga marine or to be, I would say it English.

Matthew Dols 0:19
Sounds about right. Yeah. Now, one of the first things I’m always asked me about people is how did they sort of get created? How so your childhood, your education, Where were your parents creative, like what led you down the path to come to this career?

Helga-Marie Nordby 0:34
Well, I grew up in a kind of a smaller Norwegian city. My parents are both teachers. Actually, most people in my family are teachers. I was very much into theater and music as a child. So I was doing this and I went to like a music gymnasium, and also a theater school after that. So this was kind of the road I thought I was going to take in my life, to work with music and theatre. But then I think, you know, you get around 18 and 20. And you’re like, I’m not sure that I’m going to be great, you know, in this, so of course, you could go for musical theater, you would like to be great. So I thought maybe I should try the university instead. So I went to the University to study art history, a little bit by chance, actually, because as a teenager, I hadn’t been that much individual art, of course, we went to museums and so on, but I thought it was interesting. And I thought it would be good to learn something about visual art as well. And I find it super fascinating. So I was really glad that I went for this. And at that time, I had a boyfriend and he started to talk about why don’t we go abroad to study. And I thought, that’s a nice idea. So I started to look into it. And I thought I would go to England, because there I know the language and also some great schools and I came over Goldsmith’s, I didn’t really know much about it, but I understood it was a really good school. So I applied for Goldsmith’s just a one year course there, and it ended up my boyfriend, never, he never went to study abroad, it was B that went, and I went to Goldsmith to study and one of my teachers there, she really inspired me to apply for the curatorial studies there. I don’t think I almost didn’t know what a curator was, until I moved to London, I have to say, it wasn’t much talked about in Norway at that time, this was around 2000. So like 21 years ago, and also the curatorial studies was quite knew at that time, also, the one that goes with it hadn’t been going on for so many years. So it was well by chance. But I entered that master program. So instead of going back to do more artistry, I went for for that. And I’m very happy about that, actually.

Matthew Dols 2:59
And looking over your bio, you have been incredibly productive. You’ve been parts of nomadic initiatives you’ve been working with different like young artists, societies, all kinds of different things. So give me sort of a rundown of maybe what you’re doing now.

Helga-Marie Nordby 3:17
Right now, I’m stuck in the countryside in Denmark, curating shows via zoom. Actually, right now, I have an opening next week in Oslo. And I’m here, but I’ve actually worked as a freelance since 2013. Because before I went to the freelance life, I was the head of new art academy in Tromso, a part of the Arctic University there. And I have to say that I really burnt for four years for that Academy and building it up. And so I in 2013, I was like, Okay, I will go for the freelance life. Now, I need a little kind of institutional break.

Matthew Dols 3:56
But that’s something that I wonder about, about independent curators is like, Is it the desire to be independent? Because there’s a certain balance on that? Because like, yes, you have more freedom, yes, you can work with whoever you want, but there’s no reliable income. And in certain regions of the world, there’s no insurance and whatever other kinds of things. So like, Is it your desire to be free in the freelance he kind of position or do you? Is it your desire to be free a freelancer for a certain part of your career, and then go back to institutional work?

Helga-Marie Nordby 4:31
Well, I have to say that in the beginning, I thought, yes, I wanted the freedom. I wanted to be able to choose my own projects, and of course, working in institutions today. It means a lot of work that you also don’t want to do. Administration, of course, you know, so I thought, freelance work. I would then be able to choose just to go right into what I’m doing, working with artists and curating but I thought I would do for a couple of years, maybe and then go back to work with an institution. But then I’ve been very lucky. So I have been part of projects, I have been invited to do things. And I also initiated a lot of things myself. So actually, these years, you know, just flew away. And now I’m like, it’s, it’s almost hard to think that you would go into an institution again, because I’m also married to an artist. So he also kind of lives this life. We moved to Berlin together, and now we moved to Denmark to the countryside. And this freedom has become very valuable, I think, really valuable. But of course, there are downsides and of course, the economy. Yes. So there are cheap houses here. So that’s one reason to move to the countryside.

Matthew Dols 5:51
It’s true. I mean, I’m, I’ve been leaning more towards moving to the country in the past five, six years, for sure. Because I’ve lived in, I lived in like Abu Dhabi, which is like super contemporary, and I’m, like, I’m over it, I want to go like the other direction. And get away from all of this, because I’m not sure how much like, you know, traditionally, cities are the cultural hub. And maybe it’s a an age thing as you sort of get older, you’re like, add, don’t feel the need to be sort of part of it and be in there and hustling so much. I’m not sure I

Helga-Marie Nordby 6:27
definitely think it’s an age thing. I would not have like to live in the countryside from 12 to 230. I think, I mean, that’s a city period of your life, I believe. But at the same time, of course, with the whole Corona situation, you also see that much younger people are now interested in moving into the countryside. And also cities have changed since 20 years ago. And it’s really hard to survive in cities. And it’s so expensive. And it’s polluted. And all these things I think people get more aware of maybe, also and there are some awarenesses, that brings us towards different ways of living, that the urban life is not necessarily the greatest life.

Matthew Dols 7:11
Yeah, I wasn’t raised in the city, I was raised in the suburbs. And I’m I think suburbs slash like maybe a little farther away is really a lovely balance.

Helga-Marie Nordby 7:20
And also, I mean, of course, this year has been very different from any other year, but the level of stress is just and you actually get to appreciate that very quickly. I can’t now I can’t understand everything. Yeah, you mentioned my CV, but I’m not sure if I can go back to that, you know, that path. Everything so quickly. And you travel so much. And also this traveling, of course, it’s just nowhere to go. I think.

Matthew Dols 7:47
Yeah, it’s the the speed of the arts world has is I feel like has increased exponentially in the past decade, maybe two decades. I don’t enjoy the speed that it moves at now. And I don’t know how anybody can keep up with it. Because I tried to keep up and I can’t keep up. And so I can’t imagine how being being inside of it and truly participating in it at that speed is sustainable.

Helga-Marie Nordby 8:17
It’s not sustainable at all. And it’s good that you will talk about it. Because I think for me, this has been one of the most crucial questions for the last five years. How can we change this? And you know, of course, the art scene has always been interested in questions touching about upon these things. But it’s like, there is just in theory, it’s just like, yeah, my exhibition or our project is dealing with this. But structurally, it hasn’t really been touched upon. It’s like we Yeah, we speak one thing, but we don’t do it ourselves.

Matthew Dols 8:54
Well, I mean, we talked about like wanting to change the system. We know we don’t want the gallery system to be doing XYZ we don’t want the institutions to have so and so power. But yet those institutions are still there. And those galleries are still running. And there is I don’t know how anything can be changed. Parts of the art world are certainly broken. But I am not an expert. And I don’t know how they could be mended, repaired or revised to make them any better. But almost everybody I know, can agree that to some extent they’re broken. The problem is, instead of pointing out what’s wrong with the system, we need to try and figure out how to do the system. Right?

Helga-Marie Nordby 9:36
Yeah, absolutely. Of course, I don’t have the answers to that really either. But I think there are really ways still and for me, also, I mean, there’s not necessarily an answer to move out to the city, but I think I have been trying to do for the last 10 years through my project is really local starting points that things happen where you live, and I think that me and my husband also moving here it has to do we want to our life and our work to actually be one thing. And not that our work or professional life is always somewhere else, you know? But is it possible to actually live and work in the same place? And how do you do that, and for me when I went to Goldsmith’s, so one of the really, really inspiring things for me was to get to know the artist placement group, and I went to speak with Barbara savini. And this way of thinking art as a part of the society much, much more where you are, and this is kind of the core, for me, that is the most important thing. And it would don’t have to do it, then in a big institution, you can do it where you are. So that’s my plan here,

Matthew Dols 10:51
what’s not just doing the art where you are, but it’s also sort of building it into the fabric of the community as well. Because like, I know that you’re a part of Lofton international Arts Festival, and you’ve done numerous exhibitions and performances sort of outside of the institutional realm, like physically, you know, in the in the sort of in the community versus in the white cube or the sterile environments. And that’s something that I picked up on years ago, I did a public sculpture program, where our role was to basically put art into people’s daily lives by literally putting a sculpture in the place where they walk to work kind of thing. So how important like, how are you trying to integrate those kinds of things? Because that’s a very difficult thing. And it takes generations to really evolve that in as part of a community.

Helga-Marie Nordby 11:48
Absolutely. I mean, of course, it has to do with conversation, I mean, it, you really have to talk to people, but you also have to do something, you can’t just talk you have to do. And I think that when I did this nomadic project called salt in the north of Norway some years ago, and we will try to build up something that was really hard to communicate, especially locally, because we were talking about this all these concepts, and especially meeting the locals in the north, it’s like, it’s very practical people, you know, so it’s like conceptualizing thing is not really necessarily a part of your daily life. It’s more about what you see and what you need. And your life historically has been about surviving. So of course, you don’t really have time for all this conceptualizations. It’s more like, this is a city phenomenon, kind of. And it was really interesting. And to actually understand that through many comics, because we couldn’t really get through or, you know, that, why don’t they understand that great idea here? Don’t you want to be part of it? And I was like, okay, we really have to start differently, and then actually to do stuff together, you know, so Okay, we went down to the beach, and we made food together, you do these things that people normally do, and we all do. And I think, for example, eating together and sitting down, having a fire, you know, these situations kind of takes down the barriers. And this is also a way of working with the biannual and Lofoten, that, we try to really bring down this high shoulders and these barriers and borders, and try to make it much more equal and connecting us through more normal activities in a way. And then you can start talking about more difficult things, maybe. I think it has a lot to do with the situations you create around yourself. And therefore, it’s also important to bring it out to the institution, as I have been working with, like, out of the museum and create new situations where you both develop projects, you show projects,

Matthew Dols 14:00
where even when you take it outside of the museum, though, do you get a good reception from that? I’ll give you reason why I’m asking that when I did the public sculpture stuff. A lot of the people in the well, okay, maybe not a lot of people, some of the people in the community gave me a bunch of grief, they’re like that, because it’s a very, it was a very historic city that I was in. And I put in very contemporary artwork, you know, steel and Cubist kind of stuff, you know, very much the antithesis of the architecture of the region. And they kept saying, like, why would you do that it doesn’t fit and I’m like, I did that because I wanted you to start realizing and learning for yourselves. What does work and why. And so like, you have to see what doesn’t work in order to understand what does work and suddenly he just started that conversation. And, you know, I got a lot of flack for that. Did you do you get a lot of but I was also gonna Small American town that’s very different than a much more supportive Nordic Region.

Helga-Marie Nordby 15:06
Well, I don’t think so there is that necessarily much support. But I think another example is this, there was a huge sculpture project. Also in the north of Norway, over several years, international artists were invited to create public art pieces around in the landscape. I mean, the whole coast, there was so much complaining, it’s like, why, why do you complain, you know, you’re getting a beautiful sculpture. And it’s enormous areas. And it was interesting to see, of course, some of the sculptures were kind of embraced, but, and some were just totally hated, but also to see what happens also over years, you know, this is also important, because when it comes to public art, also, time is very important, I think. And very often we of course, work very temporal. But for things to have time, and now, it’s the story is different, you know, now, most of the communities are really embraced their artworks, you know, and it’s really part of their identity. But it takes time. I think, I also believe that we also are too impatient sometimes that, you know, we’re doing this very quick you come in, and yeah, let’s have a great time here. And everybody should agree. But I also think this, that’s why also public art is so important to really have these confrontations to have these discussions, because we always do it in our own kind of safe havens of the institution or whatever, you never really get this important discussions. And we are also confronted, what I usually say is like my drive to do these projects, outside the institution are actually these confrontations, that I really also have to rethink what I’m doing all the time, you get really brilliant questions, you get stupid questions, and it sharpens you in a way, you know,

Matthew Dols 16:52
I do. A lot of times, I find that when you’re making artwork, or doing commissions or performances within the institutional structure and physical buildings. The art then is more designed maybe for artists and people who already have an interest in art and a appreciation and understanding. Whereas when you recontextualize work and put it into the public sphere, oftentimes you have to adjust the work. So that it’s not maybe not so unapproachable, as people feel it is inside these institutional settings.

Helga-Marie Nordby 17:30
I do agree. And I think therefore, of course, mediation is super important. It’s not just dropping things in people’s heads, you have to be there yourself, and you have to be this person in between, and the artists has to be there. And because I think when people meet the artists, or the curator or people meet people, then we can have a conversation. And we can also talk but as a curator, I’m not really interested in the art object in itself. I mean, that’s more a vehicle for really, for people to think, to talk to be aware. And I think in a way, because they are, that’s obvious. I mean, I know a lot of curators who are mainly not interested in people, they’re interested in the art, I would say that I’m mainly interested in the people.

Matthew Dols 18:17
Well, that brings up a great point, which is how do you find new artists? Because I’m always interested, of course, I’m a practicing artist. I always want to know, how do curators find artists?

Helga-Marie Nordby 18:28
is a very good question. So of course, I mean, you find them in different ways. Of course, you, you’re out there, you’re new you see exhibitions, you read art magazines, but I think mainly, for me has also been important really to be much around in art academies, and teaching and tutorials and really to get to know, artists already at that stage. We’re not really out there yet. I have been working with some artists for a very long time, really starting already when they were students, but it has just been going on. But I would say that we I mean, yeah, you research online also. And that right now I’m working with an artist that I haven’t really seen any of her work in real life, I have just, you know, got to know her through the internet, and then we started to work together. So that’s also sometimes happened.

Matthew Dols 19:22
Well, that was gonna be my next question, which was like, how is this whole virtual curating process going with like having to do make decisions and have meetings and stuff and all this the virtual reality kind of stuff, or I guess, but zoom and all that

Helga-Marie Nordby 19:39
in a certain way, it’s, you’re able to do stuff. The show, I’m worth opening next week, I have met to all the artists in the show, it’s 12 artists. And when I was invited to do this exhibition, I was going on this research trip and I was meeting everyone and so on, and it ended up we all go Sitting, you know, in our different houses and studios, and everything has just happened digital, and I’m not even there to install the show. You know, I’m very curious actually how this show will end up. And I’m happy we made a book about it. So there is a book following this and where we also talk about this, because it’s very strange. And I believe that when you work with art, you really have to stand face to face and you have to be physically in the space with the art with the people with the artists. So it’s it’s strange. I mean, as I say, you’re able to work but it’s not satisfying in any ways. I think I’m so much looking forward this to be over. Sad.

Matthew Dols 20:42
It is indeed. Yeah, there’s a lot being missed. I just literally yesterday, the museum’s just opened up again. And so finally got out to see my first exhibition in probably nearly a year and a half now.

Helga-Marie Nordby 20:55
Yeah, at the other side of it is that we really, really feel about these things now. And we do understand how much it means to us. So I have heard a lot of people say, Yeah, they are seen really needed, you know, this wake up call in a way. And that maybe also to bring some appreciation and value back to what we do. And it’s not just about producing and producing and producing because I think maybe in 2019 that was just exhibition and exhibition and exhibition. And it’s just, you know, fewer things, but better things.

Matthew Dols 21:29
I’m a huge fan of quality over quantity. But that hasn’t sadly been the truth. Because a lot of this through shutdowns and lockdowns, and all this stuff around the world, ended up making people very, very productive because they had more time. And they were working almost more during the lockdown than they were when they had full time jobs that they had to physically go to and all this kind of stuff. So I’m not sure I mean, in many ways it did slow us down and and create an appreciation that I think will be a nice return, too. But on the other hand, I think a lot of it, we’ve been like I’ve been busier, physically doing work, whether it’s the podcast, or whether it’s my art work, or whatever. I’ve been busier during a lockdown than I was prior to.

Helga-Marie Nordby 22:16
Yeah, I think that’s great. I totally agree with that i think a lot of artists now talk to they’ve had a great time because they haven’t had time to be in their studio, you know, so without any breaks. So this is very positive. Of course, I’m more thinking about the institution’s productions, not the artists necessarily, but I mean, that we are continuously being cut off in our thoughts, you know, so to actually have this continuous thoughts, we have been able to do that now maybe for a year,

Matthew Dols 22:46
I don’t know, it has been a nice time of pause and reflection, you know, a lot of institutions were able to close down and do repairs, and sort of rethink, and, and revise and come up with new strategies and plans and stuff Switz, it has been very beneficial for many people in the world, for sure. I know that sounds really bad, the way that just came out. But many creative people in institutions, it’s been a nice, useful break. For sure.

Helga-Marie Nordby 23:16
Of course, it’s also been tough. And there are a lot of artists with small kids, of course, and you try to do work, and you have to do homeschool. I also believe that there are some people that also had the hard time in terms of working.

Matthew Dols 23:32
Yeah, I mean, come on, I had two deaths in my family in the past year, like I totally understand about the hard times people are having, but some people have been it’s actually been very beneficial for but I think one of those things that we’re that there’s going to be interesting is going to be the the after effects of this. So like while we’re in it. We’re all depressed and sad and dwelling and wanting to get back to some sense of normality. But I’ll be interested to see some of the the long term effects of this as far as funding support the creation of whether or not even like, some people might change their entire style or aesthetic of their work from cheap, you know, because now they’ve had time to reflect for a long time and then sort of reinvent their ideas. So I’m interested to see how this is all going to shake out after it’s done.

Helga-Marie Nordby 24:27
Absolutely. At one point you sink, we’re just so eager to get back to everything that we may be also jumped over the things we thought we would keep with us from this experience. And I think that in a way it’s like yeah, the RC and all agree that we had need to be more sustainable. This like this now. So we all agree that we need to slow down and we need to, you know, keep some awareness from this time, but I still think that we just could probably run even faster maybe I don’t know

Matthew Dols 25:00
What I mean, one of the things that’s going to be interesting to see is funding for the arts, like how whether it’s going to continue at the same rate, whether it’s going to increase whether there’s gonna be a greater appreciation for the arts, there’s gonna be more funding, or whether there’s gonna be less because, you know, for all practical purposes, there are less companies that will do their sorts of sponsorships or financial support, institutions are having more financial difficulty, so they may not be as willing to do as large commission, etc, etc, etc. So like, that’s one of those things that I’m going to be super interested in seeing. Because everybody’s saying, like, oh, all these galleries and institutions are shutting down. And I’m like, I think it’s more concerned, like, a year to two years after this is all resolved. That and let’s see how many people basically can pull it back out, because a lot of people are sort of holding on and white knuckling through this, hoping it will get better. And if it doesn’t get better, I think we’re gonna see within like, the next year to three years after the end of this whole pandemic, and like, a lot of changes happening.

Helga-Marie Nordby 26:05
Yeah, I think, of course, I live in a part of the world where there are a lot of funding for the arts, I mean, we are very lucky. But at the same time, we also experienced, of course, to be very, very far off in the priority list of what seems to be important for the society to open up or to be accessible. Of course, we know, for the economy, it’s more important that the shops open them museum open. But of course that work with it, we can say that, yeah, but people in this times people really need this. I mean, to get through this period, maybe we could make it happen that people could go and see some culture and art, and it will be easier for them to survive in the way in this very, very hard time. At least in the Nordic countries, I don’t believe this will change so much in terms of and I have to say I’m surprised. In also, for example, I think there are five or six galleries that has opened in this period, which is like, how did why did that happen, you know,

Matthew Dols 27:10
cheap rent, available spaces. It happens all the time when when, when the economy goes down, the rent spaces become available, and then they and they’re available at a low prices. So people like startup, galleries and stuff can suddenly move into these places that they could not have afforded pre whatever economic downturn,

Helga-Marie Nordby 27:36
of course, but I also think that you also see when the crisis that there are more personal initiatives also been taken, because people are maybe also losing jobs. And then they really have to be creative about Okay, maybe I should actually realize that idea I had many years ago.

Matthew Dols 27:57
It’s funny, I said that in the beginning of the pandemic, I said that the two things that are gonna happen, the most coming out of this are going to be people are going to go back to school, because a lot of people are going to be like, Oh, the career I was in is gone, or I didn’t really love it in the first place. And so I want to do something else. So they’re going to go back to school, that’s going to be a big thing. And the second thing, of course, is people are going to just stop doing jobs that they don’t love. And they’re going to try and find jobs that they actually love. Because Well, I mean, literally right now you could walk outside and die, like, for all practical purposes. So there’s no longer or there’s more of an emphasis on the idea of mortality these days. And so people are like, I want to be happy, and I want to enjoy what I’m doing. So I think that that’s going to be a huge change in probably a big generational sort of adjustment for a lot of the world. Yeah, that’s gonna be interesting. I look forward to it. I wish I was a little younger. But you know, whatever. You brought up the term sustainable. And you’ve mentioned sort of that kind of stuff. Could you give me a little context on your your sensibility about sustainability?

Helga-Marie Nordby 29:05
Yeah, sure. Well, of course, it’s very much in connection with what we do. I mean, in the art field, and when I was working with both with salts and with the festival, and Lofoten, which has a quite long history, you get this awareness about, of course, the biennial culture, people are traveling so much to see. And you bring up all these important questions all the time, but at the same time, your way of living or your way of structure is not supporting this at all. And I think this is kind of mirroring, of course, I mean, everything how we live in the world today. And to kind of look forward. And of course, we were very much inspired also to look back at indigenous people also been working, for example, living in the region of the North for 1000s of years and how is it possible to Actually,

Matthew Dols 30:01
is that the samis?

Helga-Marie Nordby 30:02
Yes, in my part of the world, they’re called samis. Yeah,

Matthew Dols 30:06
I’m learning. That’s it. Yeah.

Helga-Marie Nordby 30:10
And to be able, I mean, for such a long time to live like this, and maybe it sounds, of course very romantic. And of course you don’t have the time is don’t live like this anymore as they did before. But at the same time, it has to do with being able to do it. They have been, and how can we do it today, and all our lives are always has been kind of build up around expansion, of course, the consumerism, all these things, it’s really, really hard to change. And I also believe that art is, of course, very much part of this. In terms of entertainment, consumerism, capitalism, it’s new stuff all the time. And, for example, working with Aki, also, it’s produced new things the whole time. And when I’ve been working with public art projects, for example, in institutions, and in no way you have this, that you can bring in art, when the government is building new official buildings, there are also a certain budget for art. And I have really been trying also to been here, bring in art that already exist, you know. So it’s not always about producing new stuff, but also to think, how can we also reuse art in a way? How can we use projects by artists, I mean, artists produce stuff all the time. And it’s shown once and never again, it’s gone. And I think this idea about reducing production is really kind of a mad hamster wheel that we really need to get off that things can last longer. And ideas can last longer. And it can also be recontextualize. A lot, for example, this is of course, just one thing. But sustainability has to do with doing things slower, in a way, I believe. So you have time to actually rethink situations and productions, and recontextualizing instead of producing new things all the time, this is when it comes to art.

Matthew Dols 32:20
Sure, I often go into like these beautiful old buildings that are like, you know, crafts, people that, you know, sat there and chiseled all the stones to make everything fit badly perfectly. And then I walked down the street and I see some contemporary glass thing. And I’m like, it’s missing a soul. Like it’s missing something in it. I mean, it’s lovely modern architecture, I’m a fan. But it’s not the same as something that was made in, let’s say, the 1400s, or something like that some beautiful craftsmanship kind of stuff. And it’s really hard. Because also like within the visual arts, or even the performing arts, for that matter, new doesn’t always mean better. And a lot of times the older stuff is the the higher quality stuff, it’s the better stuff. It was done with better materials, or it or, or, like he’s talked about before, time has made it more compelling and more engaging, because maybe when it was produced, it wasn’t, it didn’t fit with whatever. But maybe the time from when it was originally created to now has somehow enhanced its importance.

Helga-Marie Nordby 33:29
I totally agree. I had a very interesting conversation with an artist called Vera Villar. She’s also an architect. And we were also talking about how can we actually bring in this way of working with architecture as they did in the ancient times and to think about this surroundings. And there is one beautiful example from Oslo, which is the town hall in Oslo, probably the most beautiful place in Norway as a building, but to have artists to actually make murals and to make everything there, from the textiles to the cushions you sit on. I mean, it’s breathtaking. And it’s there forever, you know, it’s like really, really sustainable material, what you’re using also, and I’m working also, now on the public a bath that is built in Oslo, a new public bath. And also thinking about this, of course, this public baths haven’t been like this spaces for art. I mean, going back to Romans, for example. I mean, this was very, very important. And I was also thinking, how can we, in the way work like this in this public bath, of course, it was very hard because the architects already had decided the materials and didn’t want the same level of kind of interference. But at least now we’re trying to really implement materials that will last for a very long time like mosaic and also concrete but also murals and one of the artists I’m working with a fresh gem. So she lives in London. I mean, this is like, yeah, okay, she’s using the plastic waste from the building site. We’re collecting it all. And she’s melting it into and pressing them into these plastic sheets panels that we’re also making into sculpture. That is also very, very strong, almost like stained glass windows, very hard plastic. So I’m very curious how this will end up. But I think sustainability has to do with connection. And it has to do with time and thinking, as you also say,

Matthew Dols 35:33
Okay. Two things that are on your little bio that I found about you, that I wanted to know a little bit more about is you’re on the Lawson international Arts Festival advisory board. Are you still on this board? Yeah. Okay, because it said 2019 2009. And that didn’t say whether you ever left it or not. So I didn’t know. So what what is the role of being part of an advisory board for an arts festival?

Helga-Marie Nordby 36:03
Well, it’s has also to do with the history of this festival, because it was really started by artists in the region of the North. And then if someone took initiative, or chose to be an international festival, and then it got the director. And then in 2009, when I became involved, it was included into the North Norwegian Art Center, which is an institution in Norfolk, but that covers the whole region. And at that time, because it has public funding, the government wanted the festival also to be still autonomous within that institution. So they also was sent to actually set up an advice report to kind of develop the festival. So the institution that was a long developing the festival, there was an advisory board. So the members have changed. I have been there all the time, but it’s artists and curators, mainly that’s on the advisory board. Wait, wait,

Matthew Dols 37:01
why? Why have you been on the board the whole time, but everybody else is changing around you, not everyone else? Okay, I’m like, What do you What’s that? What’s the thing you do know where the thing they don’t know.

Helga-Marie Nordby 37:14
I think right now, because I was supposed to also kind of step out with now but the director of the Center, he’s leaving his job. So then I think, maybe I have become this continuity, then that they’re always there. But we need to continue with it. But because working with biennials and festivals, this is also important, because it doesn’t have necessarily a very long memory, this type of organizing events, you know, it’s a problem. So I think maybe that’s what I am. I’m this. I don’t know, memory,

Matthew Dols 37:46
your your the continuity. Yeah. Okay. Great. You, you also have this thing on there that I don’t know anything about this, the Nordic Council ministries culture and art program. I’m not from the region. So to me, that’s a completely foreign thing. What is this?

Helga-Marie Nordby 38:08
Well, on a governmental level, the Nordic countries has a kind of a, they collaborate, of course on many levels. But they also have the Nordic cultural Fund, which has to do with kind of, I mean, seeing the Nordic as a unity, more than that there are different countries, and to try to, to also communicate also to the rest of the world, but also in the Nordic countries, that we have something in common that we have a history, we have a culture, we also have a certain level, also language in common. And that this unity still is important. So in a way, the Nordic Ministry of Culture kind of represents that Nordic family in a way. I know, this was really an important thing in the 80s and the starting of the 90s. But the Nordic became a little bit wishy washy. And I think, at least for the art scene, artists really would like to be international and not, you know, they were thinking that it was something different from being your like Nordic or you were International. So they weren’t interested in being identified as Nordic, you wanted to be part of the rest of the art world in a way. So this kind of Nordic collaboration wasn’t really so strong anymore, but maybe 10, eight last years, it’s really become more and more potent. Again, I think that we really see that, that the Nordic also has something important for us. And that’s, of course, with this social democratic ideas. I mean, it’s like, yeah, that we need this neighbor and common culture and to have a focus on it. Okay, so I was just asked by the Ministry of Culture, to sit in that program, and we gave our money to applications.

Matthew Dols 39:55
So this is what Nordic culture point that granting system Yeah, it’s a cultural program that grants money. It’s amazing. I was I had looked at it, and it’s astounding, I hope, some point to be able to apply for something from it.

Helga-Marie Nordby 40:09
Yeah. Yeah, I should. And I think that it has also developed in an interesting way, because I think, before it was much more squared and diverse amount, what is Nordic, and I think it’s become much more diversity around it now than it used to be. And that much more artists also not just Nordic artists are applying for this program.

Matthew Dols 40:32
It’s a it’s an amazing program. I mean, I looked through the study, because you have a number of different initiatives. And so there’s almost sort of like, if you’re creative, and you would like to participate or engage or collaborate with anybody in the Nordic Region, there’s something that could possibly be worked out there. Absolutely. Yeah. But you brought up the issue of like the the Nordics versus international and this is something I’ve been having this conversation with lots of people about sort of being regional and local, and the but also trying to be International, like, how important is it? Because, okay, I’m going to be the play the stupid American here. And maybe I’m actually a stupid American, but whatever. But when I think of Europe, and then the nor Nordic regions, I feel like there is a bit of a separation between them. Not just geographically, but sort of culturally. And so like, Is it something that you all feel isolated up there from the International art market? Or the international arts opportunities? And if so, like, Is it important to get out more? Or is it more important to be sort of local?

Helga-Marie Nordby 41:48
It’s a very good question. I think it has changed, of course, this level of what is important, who do you want to identify yourself with? And I think that, and I really have to speak also as a Norwegian, because there are also differences within the Nordic, of course, and our histories are also very different. And as an Weejun, of course, we have both in Swedish and Danish. And we in the way we speak the Danish language in Norway, you know, so for as a Norwegian, I think, yeah, I think a lot of people have felt that a little bit of isolation. At the same time, we have this great funding system, you know, and so artists are actually free to work on their stuff. So I believe, as a curator that Norway has, you know, amazing good artists. And, you know, when they’re around and you see things happening in Central Europe, as I say that injera that it’s like, the quality of the artists in general are higher, because they have had this opportunity. I mean, it’s to have grants, you know, so they can actually work and don’t be interrupted all the time of this other jobs they need to take to come themselves, you know. So I really think so. But at the same time, I also feel that we’re so few, I mean, the very few people living in the Nordic country. So again, the representation, of course, is therefore not so big, I also believe. And for Norway, say, we got our first Art Academy 1901. So always you have to go abroad to do stuff. Also, university was also very late, you know, 1820, or something. So it’s a very young culture away. So in that sense, you also get it’s important, maybe for others to be seen by others has become part of the culture in the way that that is important. what others think of you, rather than having that bigger nations have like the self esteem of Yeah, I’m French, you know, I’m great.

Matthew Dols 43:52
Some would call that arrogance. But yes.

Helga-Marie Nordby 43:57
But I also think, for my sake is I think it’s interesting then to be talking about living in the cities, but also living in the big cities, and in capitals. And very often when you’re there, the art world is very much circling around itself. You know, it’s like, as you’re in New York, of course, everything is about New York. If you’re in London, everything is about London. And that’s actually how it is in the Nordic countries. Are you in Copenhagen, everything is about Copenhagen, and we are in Oslo, everything is about Oslo. And it’s so healthy, I believe, to actually step out of that system and see things from the outside.

Matthew Dols 44:34
Okay, but one thing I wonder because again, I’ve been to have not been up to Norway or Denmark or anywhere in the Nordic regions yet, I will be soon but is it easier or more difficult for you all to get out and be part of the International arts world I mean, I would imagine in the past it was more difficult because of shipping costs and mail and all that but I met but I’m I’m mad Meaning that the internet has made it much easier for you all to be more actively connected to the rest of the world.

Helga-Marie Nordby 45:08
Yes, I think so. I mean, there are, of course, today, a lot of artists that are a part of the international scene, and you have Norwegian and Danish and Swedish artists living all around the world, of course, taking part in different art communities, but maybe also, because the culture is still have this funding. It’s also good to live there. If you work with art to culture, you know,

Matthew Dols 45:33
I wouldn’t know a super pedantic thing here. But like, I want to know, if you’re a Nordic citizen, but you live in, let’s say, London or Paris or support Berlin, can you still apply for funding even though you’re not living there currently, just because you’re a citizen. Yes. I’m so bitter and jealous of you all. I was born in the wrong place, I swear. Alright.

Helga-Marie Nordby 45:59
But what is important, though, if you do apply for funding, you also have to have your activity also happening. Of course, in Norway, for example, even though I live in Berlin, I need to do projects, in order to be able to get this kind of funding, wouldn’t want to go to Norway to do some art projects. Like That sounds like a magical thing, not a detriment.

Matthew Dols 46:26
But that’s just my, but my family is also Finnish. So I’m at my heritage is that direction, so I’m sort of very interested in the region. Alright, let’s wrap this up. I generally end up with two last question. So my first one is, are there three artists that you’re currently looking at contemporary artists that you would like to tell me their names and maybe a little bit about why you’re sort of paying attention to them?

Helga-Marie Nordby 46:53
Yeah, who can I choose? At the current moment, I work with a lot of artists and different projects

Matthew Dols 46:59
you can give more than three three is just a random number I chose.

Helga-Marie Nordby 47:03
I say, there’s one artist that I find very interesting. Her name is Esther fleckner. She’s a Danish artist, and she works with woodcuts.

Matthew Dols 47:12
I love printmaking.

Helga-Marie Nordby 47:16
Yeah, and I also find this interesting, of course, this has been talked a lot about but of course, this craft or not, has happened in the art world and but a lot more of younger artists are actually working with more Crafty Things again, but I think she is an artist that is also working with gender issues and has really made her own kind of coded language in this woodcuts, you know. And I’ve always loved with cuts. Also as a child, you know, books with wood cuts. And this really black and white Esther, she also works with other colors. And then there is also older Norwegian artist. Her name is Britt do Eunice and she’s ceramics, she works with ceramics. And she’s also one of these artists that she moved to the place where she could also dig out the clay herself, you know, that she’s like really taking and having this very closeness to her own material. And she starts just by going out to a studio and having a shovel with her and dig it up and bring it into a studio. Right now for me, I feel that these kind of practices are are important that you are connected. I also talked about sustainability, but this connection with your material with what you do, and also where you live that these things have some kind of link is important.

Matthew Dols 48:39
All right. And the third person that I would mention an artist she works with a lot with sounds, but also the voice. Her name is Ellen more in this very long name. She was really working as with music and also DJing, but has ended up building up an artist residency, just in autumn, small island in the north of Norway. I really think she makes beautiful projects. For example, She made the performance in Svalbard, which is a part of Norway and Ireland’s quite far out in the ocean, where she was part of art festival. The thing she did was, of course, there were people coming from different places in the world to be an audience, but she just brought the people or the audience weather out into the ice and snow. And they just had the walk. And what you wanted them to do was just to listen. That was the whole performance. And I mean this is super easy, but the responses and the experience that the people have had had just by doing a simple thing as just being quiet and open your ears and they had had this very, very exercise. Potential experience. Marvelous. Last question I asked is, and I’m phrasing this in two different ways you can make your decision on how you want to address this. Either the best advice you ever received, or some advice that you would like to give to the next generation of in your case curators or artists,

Helga-Marie Nordby 50:20
I have to say, be open is a very bad thing. But I think that at least my best thing to bring with me into when I’m working, is to be very open, because it sounds lame, but it’s, it’s hard to be open actually, even you’re working with art. And especially if you like me, we do try to go into your community or work with people that you’re not really into what you do. And you you also get a lot of both strange questions and also shapes and it’s just, you really need to be open and also dare to be vulnerable, when you remotely do. And I think it’s it was a little bit of a hard question. Actually, you should have prepared me for that. Because

Matthew Dols 51:07
it is it is a difficult question. Like if somebody literally randomly just said, Hey, what’s your best advice? I’d be like, I have no clue.

Helga-Marie Nordby 51:15
But that was, that was the first thing I was thinking about when he asked me and it’s not a very clever answer. That’s the most important thing, or at least when you work with art and with people is to be and I mean really open.

Matthew Dols 51:29
Alright, well, thank you very much for your time. Thank you.

The Wise Fool is produced by Fifty14. I am your host Matthew Dols – http://www.matthewdols.com And the audio for this episode was edited by Jakub Černý. The Wise Fool is supported in part by an EEA grant from Iceland, Liechtenstein and Norway – https://eeagrants.org in an effort to work together for a green competitive and inclusive Europe. We would also like to thank our partners Hunt Kastner – http://huntkastner.com in Prague, Czech Republic and Kunstsentrene i Norge – https://www.kunstsentrene.no in Norway. Links to EEA grants and our partner organizations are available in the show notes or on our website https://wisefoolpod.com