Transcript for Episode 145 – Museum Technician at Amos Rex, Fredrik Willberg (Helsinki, Finland)

Recorded January 27, 2021
Published on February 9, 2021

Recording here: https://wisefoolpod.com/museum-technician-at-amos-rex-fredrik-willberg-helsinki-finland/

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Matthew Dols 0:12
Could you please pronounce your name correctly

Fredrik Willberg 0:13
for Fredrik Willberg Yeah, that’s the way Swedish.

Matthew Dols 0:21
Okay, and that you are the technician at the Amos RX. Is it a mix RX museum? Or is it just Amos RX? Like how does it even? What’s the right terminology for it?

Fredrik Willberg 0:34
Actually, it’s almost RX almost is the surname of this almost under some person. So yes, it’s almost Rex. We don’t really have suffix for that yet. Perfectly fine

Matthew Dols 0:51
is just sort of a question for clarification. Yeah. Yeah. Cuz like there’s like the mat and like, you know, the Guggenheim Museum like there are these other terms that are put around so it’s just almost wrecks.

Fredrik Willberg 1:03
Yeah. For the time being we are quite new so

Matthew Dols 1:07
well you’re not all me I guess in the grand scheme of museums, you’re new but you’re not that new. is what 2013 when we got started,

Fredrik Willberg 1:16
yeah, started but this this facility since 2080.

Matthew Dols 1:21
Okay, you really knew that. Yeah. Now, okay, so just to be to get some background. So what what is your background? Are you a creative person and artist of your own your own raid? Or are you a technician and that’s, that’s your career

Fredrik Willberg 1:37
focus. My start this, I have an artist background. never actually continued that I went to art school, studied intaglio printing is really old school, copper, copper plates, and so forth. During that time, I got really interested in audio technology. Well, I think I had some kind of ambitions to play in a band. Of course, I was really young, then I found some creative things in technology, by connecting stuff wrongly. And while I was doing that, I found out that there are a lot of people who has been doing this technical like experimenting for a long time in sound, so it’s a long, long story. And well, it’s not really complicated, but it’s it’s it has many, hence why I ended up doing the things I do right now.

Matthew Dols 2:36
You are welcome to tell as long as stories. Okay. Sort of the fun of it is we can hear the nice long stories.

Fredrik Willberg 2:43
Yes, that’s good. I tried to do like our art, stuff myself. But I always ended up connecting cables and well, doing the technical parts. And then I started to, well, this was 98, I think.

Matthew Dols 3:04
And it is a little bit of a picture. So where are we? So what were you How old were you? And then sort of where where did this go on?

Fredrik Willberg 3:12
I graduated from the art school 97. And I think I was something 20 I muddle around a lot. And I did a lot of different stuff. And this was also in the beginning of the graphic design, boom, people started to have computers and doing desktop publishing and the pages and you name it. So of course I tried tried it all doing coding and graphic design. So I ended up being actually I got a job as a art director in this newspaper in Helsinki. And I did that for a year or two and then I start to do a lot of graphic design, but I don’t think I was so good at itself and it wasn’t so passionate thing for me. So I kind of swapped around completely and started as a company. what’s called when you when you rent a rental company, you rent out this Bs and mixer, microphones and stuff.

Matthew Dols 4:17
Oh, absolutely. I used to be a roadie. Yeah. Roll bands totally know what you’re talking about. Yeah,

Fredrik Willberg 4:22
me too. I did that also. So Oh, yeah. Yeah. I’ve been a backline around roadie and stage builder stuff like this.

Matthew Dols 4:31
I was primarily a steel guy and building the staging and then also the lights were my primary thing. I’m a photographer so so I loved lighting and working with lighting.

Fredrik Willberg 4:42
Nice. Nice. Yeah. I’ve been working with some some light guys here in Helsinki, but I’m actually never done any lights myself. That’s the part of the technical part that

Matthew Dols 4:54
it’s not as hard as they tried to make it sound like it is. It’s no point Put the right the right intensity of light. And you’re you’re pretty good. At least when it comes to rock and roll. I mean that it’s not.

Fredrik Willberg 5:08
Yeah, that’s true. I tend to think that the people who, who are good at doing lights, they’re the people who really want to do it. And that makes them good at it. As I really don’t want to do it. I wouldn’t be a good life designer.

Matthew Dols 5:27
Fair enough. I’m not very good with audio, but yet I run a podcast. Yeah. You aren’t good at what you do. It’s the point is doing stuff as long as you do you are good at it. Indeed. So okay, so now let’s get to like the the nature of your job. Currently, it’s defined as hold on on the website, it says, museum technician. Yeah, give me a bit. Because like, I translate that a lot of a lot of like European places translate things differently than we do in America, where I was raised. And so like, I would equate that to prepare better, but I think it’s a little bit different than a prepared orator.

Fredrik Willberg 6:06
Well, let’s make it even more complicated. As we are a bilingual country. My title in Swedish is Messiah master. They also use it in Finnish this, this master suffix on these titles. So you have exhibition master and museum Master, it’s like this. I don’t know from where, where it comes. But that’s the thing. In English, it translates to museum technician. And that makes it a little bit more all over the place. So to say, because, as title, museum technician could actually mean, whatever. As long as you are a technician inside the museum, you are a museum technician. Yeah, but

Matthew Dols 6:51
I mean, but okay, I would imagine then, if you’re the museum technician, you probably aren’t like running Ethernet cables for the offices and things like this might happen also. Really, yeah. Because I’m thinking you’re more like an exhibition technician.

Fredrik Willberg 7:09
Yes, that’s the thing I want to do. But obviously, there is a lot of things to do in in house also. Everything is aimed towards exhibition. So for example, if I my responsibilities, partly also this is building and take care of the running errands. For example, if something is broken, it needs to be fixed. And while we have Kuroda now, and we have no audience in the museum, there’s a good opportunity to get a lot of stuff done here. So we don’t have to close down for this repair repair jobs. And there is not a single area of work that I have. I have some routines. But there’s a lot of obviously changes with the exhibitions. Also, the main focus of work.

Matthew Dols 7:59
Well, from what I looked at, like I looked through some of your exhibitions that you all had, obviously not many, because it’s only the last two years. They’re they’re very technological, heavy. From what I noticed, there’s a lot of video and installations and sort of these kinds of very tech heavy stuff. So how, so they when you get involved in that, like, this is what I start wondering about. So like, Are you the one dictating like saying, Okay, these are the resources we have? Or do curators, or sponsors or funders, or the artists come to you with different things like, you know, so how does, how do you sort of work together with all these different people to like, pull off the exhibition of a piece of, you know, highly technical artwork?

Fredrik Willberg 8:42
First of all, we have the proposal. So to say that we know who are coming here, and their, what their, what their wishes are, then we start to compare our resources with the wishes. And that’s where I come in, come in. So I can sit down and say, yeah, this is possible to do with stuff we have in house and with knowledge that we have in house. But it’s also equally important to say that this is not possible to do with the resources we have and with the knowledge is we have. So yes, my work is partly to be a buffer. Before we start working to see that, yeah, we need to outsource this. And yeah, and this part we can do. And try to be realistic about this because it’s it tends to change a lot.

Matthew Dols 9:37
Always every exhibition changes from your proposal to final result because it means not just budget time space, it’s the sort of mean also like if it gets moved to a different location within the museum, you have to change the acoustics of it, the dynamics of where you can hang things like I used to work As a rigger also so like, you know, points where you can hang stuff are not always available, so that you’ve got to be flexible in many ways, while you’re also like trying to keep the artistic vision true.

Fredrik Willberg 10:15
Yes. And also try to help as much as possible. So, if we have leading artists for, for example, so or leaving young artists who want to, they have a vision, they want help with that. So that’s also, I see it as a part of my job, too.

Matthew Dols 10:33
Okay, wait a man, I think you may need to take a step back. So he, your museum takes proposals. So like, I, if I’m an artist, which I am, by the way, I can write a proposal to the museum, and it’s possible to have an exhibition, or these like curators bring in these, you know, do curators bring in proposals like how does so how do exhibitions even sort of gets built? Like, and then what’s your role, and now,

Fredrik Willberg 10:59
we have an exhibition plan, that I’m not part of the planning or the future planning procedures. But there are so many examples, for example, we had this exhibition with young artists, they had proposals for works here. So that was the situation where, where I could actually help. But then, as another example, there might be a completely fixed exhibition that’s coming and there is no room for improvisations at all. And then there is just it’s, it’s to compare it to rock band. You got the writer, right, which is the wish list? Yes. Right. Right. Right. You have to follow that partly at some point, but it’s so dependent on the content.

Matthew Dols 11:53
Have you had, like, I guess my my things are like, like, what technologies are really being utilized these days, because a lot of the people I talked to are very traditional, like, including myself, you know, painting, sculpture, very simple. So like, involving technology, like, what technologies are really being used? Have they really been like pushing the limits? Or are they sort of still using, you know, just like straight up video, and you’re just doing high quality video, and that’s all,

Fredrik Willberg 12:26
but that’s also dependent on how young they are? I noticed that this last exhibition when they were about 20. Ish, so they tend to say that, yeah, we know, we want this old CRT televisions VCRs and DVD players.

Matthew Dols 12:42
So the young people want the old equipment,

Fredrik Willberg 12:45
yeah, the old crappy stuff that company wants to use anymore. And you have that stuff available now. No, we need to source it. Okay. But it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s nice, because that’s, that’s the thing I really like, especially with young artists, because they really like push, I will never get bored of my with my job.

Matthew Dols 13:08
I would imagine it’s literally like, You’re, you’re sort of a fireman, like, people come to you and say like, hey, I need to do this amazing thing. How do I do it? And then you just said, problem solve it like,

Fredrik Willberg 13:20
Yeah, okay. But that’s, that’s really nice. Because obviously, I don’t have this solutions. But I get to experiment. And I get to try out, hey, this might be possible. And then we do it. Well, it works.

Matthew Dols 13:34
Okay. Yeah, that works. Yeah. And is, is all this technology. How is it funded? Like so they do the artists bring their own technologies? Do you have you say, Do you have some in house? And of course you rent some but like it, how is this paid for? Like, do you have like, I guess it’s like, is this something you deal with? Or do you just pass it to somebody? a budget person?

Fredrik Willberg 13:57
Yes, I pass it to a budget person, usually. And we have an set up of equipment, which is, it’s quite good actually. But technology is is a strange animal. Because some things it could have something in your storage. But for example, projectors, televisions and stuff like this, it’s not really sensible to buy a lot of those things and have them stored, because that gets old really fast. But then, for example, I tend to reuse a lot of old computers and these small raspberry pi i don’t know if you’re familiar with them. It’s a like a card computer that you can actually program to do whatever you want. More or less. Interesting. Yeah, yeah, it really it’s really interesting and it’s it’s so I tried to have in house supply of usable stuff. But I will not try to get the newest, greatest, just to have it in storage.

Matthew Dols 15:11
I agree with that 100% because like I’m a photographer by training and about four or five, we’re actually technically probably about seven years ago, I decided not to own my own equipment anymore. Because the technology keeps updating, you know, every two years, you need the newest, the best, the biggest, the whatever. And so I stopped owning, and I just rent when necessary, because it’s just not cost effective to be, you know, upgrading technologies every couple of years, just because it’s the newest stuff, and then storing it when you’re not using it and basically losing value on it. So yeah, I mean, the idea of renting it, you know, the newest best equipment when necessary versus owning it is very smart these days.

Fredrik Willberg 15:56
Yeah. And it’s it’s ecological also, indeed. But then we have of course, we have some things that needs to be the newest, the best, especially with this virtual reality things that you can’t actually do. You need the high end computer and you need the high end headset and stuff like this. So

Matthew Dols 16:15
have you all been creating like virtual tours and things like this?

Fredrik Willberg 16:19
No. We have been doing virtual tours, but with Instagram, but not with this. Not this real virtual

Matthew Dols 16:28
with but with Instagram. Yeah.

Fredrik Willberg 16:29
Well, they call them that this virtual tours that they have they have a

Matthew Dols 16:34
Okay, yeah, that’s just like just walking. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. No, I’m thinking like an immersive situation like that. Like me at my home, I could put on my Oculus and sort of get a walk around of the museum.

Fredrik Willberg 16:46
Yeah, not yet. No. Okay, but I don’t know it’s it seems to be a quite long lockdown ish or it’s we don’t have a lockdown now, but we we are actually closed. So. So we, we might need a virtual tour at some point.

Matthew Dols 17:03
Why yes. And sort of the question then is like, because of the the world situation right now? Like, is that something that you all are starting to think towards? If obviously, at this point you haven’t really done much of but are you starting to think like, okay, maybe we should be investing in trying to do some of these things.

Fredrik Willberg 17:21
I really can’t answer this because I’m not part of that discussion. But it wouldn’t surprise me if we we have this kind of thoughts.

Matthew Dols 17:29
I so love that. You’re just like, that’s not my job.

Fredrik Willberg 17:33
I’m sorry to say that, but I usually don’t use that term. I don’t even like to say that. But but that’s that’s too far off for me to speculate around.

Matthew Dols 17:44
Totally fine. I mean, there’s so many people in the art world that like they’ll just make up some bullshit just to make themselves sound important. And you’re just like, No, no, I have nothing to do with that. Like it’s it’s safe for this. It’s excellent. I love the bluntness of it all. Now you’re in Helsinki. Yeah. I mean, how? How is it? I’ve never been to Helsinki, mind you. So like, what’s the art scene like in Helsinki? Like, I mean, is this a, I hear stories, of course, and I read articles, but you’re on the ground like, so? Is it thriving? Is everything? You know? How’s it going?

Fredrik Willberg 18:24
Well, I would say it’s trialing my, I don’t have a deep knowledge in that. But of course, I have my own interests. So considering my own interests, I find it troubling and interesting.

Matthew Dols 18:40
And what is it? What is this specific thing? audio?

Fredrik Willberg 18:43
Yeah, experimental music and this weird, really weird noises. electronic stuff. That’s my, my, my love. And so good place for this kind of

Matthew Dols 18:58
things. From my American perspective, I would say Scandinavia is a great place for that kind of stuff. Yes, yeah. Yeah, that we generally perceive that region as electronic music and that kind of stuff very prominent up there. All right, do you have any interesting stories about experiences of installing, you know, your technological stuff and like things either going amazingly well, or things not going as well as you would like and having to work out? difficult problems?

Fredrik Willberg 19:34
Yeah, I don’t have a like, straight story to tell you but but obviously, as it’s an adventure to build an exhibition every time so the more technical it is, the more of these improvisational situations we we stumble upon, and those are really nice. And now obviously, they always work because we We never failed to have an opening. So and if knock on wood, yeah, yeah, true. But as long as we have an opening, that the process has been a success, more or less, there is always details to mention about information. It’s, that’s, that’s the key ingredients to everything. It’s especially when you’re talking about technological things. Because people tend to be afraid of technology. That’s too complicated for me, I don’t want I don’t know, as long as you can do it, everything is good. But people involved in the process, they could have a slight base knowledge of technology that’s required for exhibition, it makes a difference, because it’s information is the easiest thing to give. But it’s also the most easy thing to forget to give to people that are working with. Because if you assume things, as long as you assume things, things are going straight to hell.

Matthew Dols 21:08
Oh, yeah. There’s the old saying that assume is making an ass out of you and me. So yes, yeah. Beating being killed, you know? Yeah. Just communication, strong communication. If Yeah, yeah, it’s very important. I have a question, a super technical question for you. Because I am actually really fascinated with the technical stuff. When it comes to the planning of an exhibition. And your focus is audio. Like, what give me a sense of the structure that you’re working in is a concrete, concrete floors, drywall? Like, how did the acoustics play into, like the materials that are that the structures, the exhibition halls are made of play into your role? Not so much, actually. darnit? I was hoping it was something important. Yeah,

Fredrik Willberg 22:02
because Luckily, we have really good acoustics here. Because we have a wood, we have a wood floor and our dome ceiling. And the dome ceiling is also covered with this. It’s kind of this. I don’t know the name of the product, but it’s this thick, woolly material in the ceiling. So

Matthew Dols 22:22
yeah, I know this stuff is acoustic bass,

Fredrik Willberg 22:26
acoustic buffering material. So if we have a good, good acoustic situation, and quite interesting also, because of the dome ceiling, so sound tend to travel quite a lot. But sound wise, we don’t have so many, many sound focused exhibitions, actually, we have in this ongoing Egypt exhibition, we have a sound design that’s made, not by us, it’s outsourced completely. Yeah, it works well, in this space.

Matthew Dols 22:58
Will. Okay, wait, that’s a question that I’ve often wondered, like? Do you ever do any sort of like ambient sounds and things to make it so that like spaces are not silent.

Fredrik Willberg 23:10
This is the first exhibition where it was actually planned. well planned, there was this Dutch study adrift, collected, that was they were here also, they had some kind of ambient soundscape also, but it wasn’t really, really thought out, or they didn’t inform us really clearly about it. So we had to improvise a little bit with Speaker placements while they were here. But my job is not not really audio related, per se, it’s more video and audio is, is quite a small part here. The to have knowledge in audio is a good thing. But video is more. I think it’s that’s the thing that that’s there, it’s more in demand. say

Matthew Dols 23:56
why it makes sense. I mean, museums traditionally are very visual, I get that. So okay, so how about the technologies that are being used in, in video projection? What is it that you’re using the most? Like, you know, there are certain brands, of course, that I grew up with, but that are different in Europe. So like, Are there certain technological advances that you’re finding like so I’m thinking of like, short throws and all kinds of other things like this, that make a very big difference in the, you know, the, the ability to put a projection in a different type of space as far as the scale of the projection?

Fredrik Willberg 24:32
Yes, there there’s so, so much going on. Now, classical you have a player and a projector and HDMI cable connect that so but now now, when there is need for multi projection, we need need to use different kinds of connectivity, things, synchronizing players synchronizing screens and there is no one single way it changes every time with every exhibition.

Matthew Dols 25:04
So you like it, you don’t have like a personal preference of let’s say, like a brand. I don’t know that that you’re like, Oh, this one works really, really well in our space. And you’ve had it’s been very reliable and all that stuff.

Fredrik Willberg 25:18
Now, we had obviously we had the first exhibition we had was this table up with this massless exhibition. So for that exhibition, we had a big sponsorship. And because of that we ended up with with one particular brand of beamers. But no, I don’t have any preferences because it depends on the I personally, I’m super interested in this mini mini projectors. Now. I haven’t thought got hold of them yet. But I would like to experiment with them.

Matthew Dols 25:52
But they called like, pixel projectors or something like that.

Fredrik Willberg 25:55
I don’t really know. They are a couple of brands now. Yeah, actually, they make them looking like lamps, so you can put them in the lamp railing, which is great. I think it’s super effects power from the light rail.

Matthew Dols 26:12
Oh, yeah, they’re quite amazing. I mean, you know, from the, everything from the most, like micro projectors, like you’re talking about the little handheld projectors all the way up to these like, massive outdoor projectors. I mean, the technology, you know, between the, the lumens that they out, yeah, the everything is so much better than it was like, even when I was in school 20 years ago, like most of these technologies didn’t exist. Like it wasn’t even a creative option for me to use these technologies that now kids are going to school and like it’s normal to them like, Oh, yeah, we all have a handheld sector. And I’m like, I didn’t need that didn’t even exist when I was in school.

Fredrik Willberg 26:55
Well, actually, now when it comes to think of it, if you ask my preferences, I would say that 16 millimeter film is really really good looking. It’s It’s the best. It’s the best I’ve seen so far.

Matthew Dols 27:08
You said it’s 16 one six millimeter. Yeah, maybe old school. Yeah,

Fredrik Willberg 27:13
I did a by chance. I just did a exhibition as a freelancer before I started work here. at it with this Swiss artist. I don’t I can’t remember his name. But he had this field moves that were projected on balloons, and the quality and the graininess and vividness of the colors on the on the field. I really liked it. And I haven’t seen it on video.

Matthew Dols 27:43
What I’m fascinated because I’m keep hearing from you. Old two projectors VCRs 816 millimeter film, but yet, but yet your job is technology, which I assume, which I obviously wrongly assumed was highest, newest, best, all this kind of stuff. But really a lot of it when it comes to like creativity and artistic expression. It seems to be not the most expensive newest and all this but it seems to be sort of the the things that are the most creatively outputting kind of stuff.

Fredrik Willberg 28:19
Yeah, it depends so much on on who you’re working with. For example, if you would be working with this Asian mega projection companies, it would be obvious that you, you have demand for the best and the newest equipment because you can’t do it with old stuff. But then, well, I was I was actually working in Amsterdam, a month with this Namjoon pike exhibition. And that was only CRT, tube screens, televisions. Okay,

Matthew Dols 28:56
she loves them.

Fredrik Willberg 28:57
So that was a step. So to say backwards for me because I never learned that technology. I never knew anything about that before I beforehand. So now I know a little bit more of that analog connections and our videos. It’s such a fascinating, really,

Matthew Dols 29:15
have you ever played with the Fisher Price pixel 2000 I used to have two of those when I was in college, college, loved those. You would love them with your mix of audio interest and video because they use old audio cassettes to create visual image really, really well. It’s amazing. I mean, they’re super expensive now because they’re very rare. But they’re really cool. Like it’s it’s such a unique output. That’s a neat one. But yeah, you can probably find them on like eBay and those kinds of places these days. So, alright, so when it comes to like your planning of an X addition, where do you come in to like the curator, let’s say we’ll plan it. And then sort of what to step in the process to they start involving you

Fredrik Willberg 30:10
when everything is on paper, and the decisions have been made where placements of pieces and more or less the architecture or design of the exhibition. That’s where I come in, because then I need to know, placement of the walls to figure out where to pull the cables and where to pull, or where to put potential screens or projectors. So sometimes I’m involved from the beginning. If if it’s common knowledge that it’s going to be a really, visually or a visually heavy exhibition.

Matthew Dols 30:50
How long does this process take? So like, from the planning to opening night? How long more general exhibition at almost Rex take to get up and running? Yeah, I can think a year, I would have expected you to say two years. Yeah.

Fredrik Willberg 31:06
Probably with these bigger exhibitions, several years because they need to go all the legal stuff needs to be processed also. But with this, so to say, in quotation marks, normal exhibitions, it’s not that long,

Matthew Dols 31:25
an average exhibition, so not a tech heavy exhibition. Yeah, but

Fredrik Willberg 31:29
those can be, for example, is Rene Magritte. It had been a long process to get it here. And that was not a tech heavy exhibition at all. No.

Matthew Dols 31:40
So okay, so back to sort of like the the nature of your position. So you you do like video, audio and computer related things. It sounds like, but you don’t deal with like, you’re not part of the sort of preparatory staff. So the hanging of thing of paintings and lighting of exhibitions and all that stuff. That’s not your thing? Well,

Fredrik Willberg 32:04
no, not that. I’m the one who climbs inside the wall samples, the cables where, where it needs to be pulled. So I do I do physical and concrete work, also a lot of climbing and hanging in the ceiling.

Matthew Dols 32:20
What I do now you all have like, I’m sure OSHA style, like in the United States with this thing, OSHA like, Safety and Health Advisory thing like so you. So you’re the guy who like, puts on the five point harness and you like climb in the ceiling and all that

Fredrik Willberg 32:35
I’m supposed to put on the harness? And we’re all supposed to? Yeah, no, no, it’s a I don’t play around with that. I don’t take unnecessary risks. It’s It’s It’s not clever. But sometimes, it’s impossible to follow the, the guidelines.

Matthew Dols 32:56
We’ll just let that go. I don’t feel like getting you in trouble. So go farther on Yeah. Okay, no, okay. It was something that you said. You said you did some freelance work ahead of time, like before getting your job here. So like, what was the career trajectory? So like, you get out of school, you’re doing audio work? How did you get from that to being a museum?

Fredrik Willberg 33:21
It’s, well, I’ve been moving around in Finland a lot from from the city, or actually, on the coastline from between a couple of cities. So I ended up the archipelago of Finland in the western parts. I bought a house with my ex wife there. And I lived there for four years. Which actually meant that I cut my my connections to Helsinki quite radically. So I didn’t get any freelance jobs anymore from Helsinki, and I didn’t get any graphic design jobs. So I needed to start to replan what to do. So I ended up doing this audio, audio work, actually, that didn’t bring any food to the table so to say. So I moved back to that. When I moved back here. This was actually my third time to start over in Helsinki. So I could get work this architectural Museum in Helsinki to just build exhibitions and you know, carry boards and paint walls and do this handyman stuff. So I was working there as a freelancer for a couple of exhibitions. And during this time, I noticed that there was a lack in the knowledge on this AV technology, video, video and computers. So I kind of had some I can’t claim that I’m a specialist in anything but I knew something. So I started to do a little bit of trickery with this video projections and then I got some questions I could you could we do like for example trees synchronized big screens. I learned from my actually my uncle, I think he said that if somebody asked you something, never say, No, I can’t do it. So I said, obviously, yes, yes, it’s possible. And I got, I think, two months, it was a lot of googling, and trying out, but it worked out. So then one thing led to another, and I got another freelance job. And I got more, a little bit more. And I ended up at kiasma, our neighboring Museum, this museum for modern art, and I was working as an AV technician there. And during that time, almost Rex was opening their doors or just before they were opening their doors, I, my contract ended up chaos. So I called it called this players place and asked if they need any help building exhibitions. And I just told him, like, yeah, I can do this. And I can do this. But I’m open for everything. And I’m still here. So something worked out, I think,

Matthew Dols 36:04
was because the part of the reason why like I asked you as to be a guest versus let’s say, a curator and stuff is everybody talks to curators, I’ve talked to dozens of curators, but what I’m also interested in because I’m a professor, I’m also interested in sort of all the other creative artistic avenues that sort of come up like, you probably didn’t go to school going, Hey, you know what, I’m going to be a museum. Right. But you ended up there and you enjoy. Yeah, you know, so it’s like, you know, it’s one of those stupid things like in America, they have this thing of like, if you go to art school, like you’re never gonna make a living. Like isn’t, it’s a useless degree. And so like, for me, I like the the idea that basically getting a degree like that can then end up leading to a job that you never could have imagined you might have wanted. And so that’s why I find like your job really quite interesting. It sounds like a lot of fun to do.

Fredrik Willberg 37:01
Yeah, it’s it really is. It’s a lot of fun. A bit of frustration, also. But that’s obvious. It’s probably with all the jobs you have. But this is the dream job. And I also considering art school background, I don’t see myself being so far from the my education, even if I haven’t studied this technology, per se, but I have a visual background.

Matthew Dols 37:28
I don’t think there is a degree.

Fredrik Willberg 37:31
But it’s a it’s a big help. I think I had a lot of help with this. Because I know that. Well. I’m not claiming that my vision is the correct one. But I trust my eyes. And I think a lot of visual artists actually have the knowledge to trust their, their eyes and their esthetical. thoughts. All right.

Matthew Dols 37:53
I’m trying to think of some other good questions. I just say, you know, I came with no questions whatsoever. I’m just you. Just, I’m listening to you. And I’m trying to think like, what, what else do I want to know about your job? Okay, I know what else I want to say like, get walk me through like a week, let’s say a day is probably too little. So like, a week of like, what is it you do as a museum technician? Both the mundane stuff and the sort of exciting stuff.

Fredrik Willberg 38:23
For the moment, I’m actually drawing this article in the stands. And I’m drawing them in this Rhino 3d software that I’ve been teaching myself, right.

Matthew Dols 38:38
Yeah, like auto?

Fredrik Willberg 38:40
Yeah, exactly. Is he calculating areas, mathematical work. And then this morning, I ran downstairs and this assembled a shelf. Just to find out that I need to remove three huge mirrors. Just to figure out that I need to remove the framework that the mirrors were attached to. So that the technicians I called yesterday can access the LED screen that’s behind this all that was this day. Yesterday was a lot of planning and calling around. And now when the museum is empty, I have time to see if something needs to be fixed. And then the other part is we have two artists downstairs in our workshops. We’re actually preparing an upcoming exhibition. So they are actually doing the artworks here in the museum. And I need to clean up a little bit after them. Also a little bit help them because they don’t know where stuff is and organizing. Yeah, my job is quite A lot a big part of my job is organizing stuff.

Matthew Dols 40:03
Oh yeah, I remember as a roadie, one of the most important things is always like, there’s a box for something, and everything has a box, like so like everything should be where it should be. And if it’s not, that’s a problem, because then you can’t find it when needed. So like, not only should everything be organized, but it should be organized in a way so that theoretically, if you’re out sick, that somebody else could easily find it next.

Fredrik Willberg 40:31
And then this place needs to be organized also, in that sense that what’s going to happen in three weeks when when we have a lot of freelancers coming here. It’s not the question of how tight it is. But it’s more a question of how, how will we find space for things that will end up in our museum?

Matthew Dols 40:51
Okay, give me a breakdown, like in your job, how much of your time do you have to do like, bureaucracy and paperwork? And how much of it is sort of hands on getting going out? And because like you said, like, dismantling a mirror thing to get to an LED thing? So how much Yeah, cuz like, they always say, like, artists would, that we’re always in the studio. And we don’t do a lot of paperwork in business stuff. But in reality, we end up doing like 60 70% paperwork and business stuff and very little time in the studio. So like, in your job is a lot of it meetings and bureaucracy and paperwork, or is it a much more hands on position?

Fredrik Willberg 41:32
claim that during this time, when we have a planning of exhibition, I think it’s for the present administrative work bureaucrat not really bureaucracy, but this paperwork and meetings. And the rest is, is more or less hand or hands on. And I actually consider this is sitting by the computer and drawing stuff to be quite hands hands on work. Also.

Matthew Dols 41:58
I agree with that. Um, yeah, things like the AutoCAD that’s hands on.

Fredrik Willberg 42:02
Yeah. But this I don’t work so much with with budgets and economic but partly, if we need to think about future exhibitions, and if we need to buy something, then I’m involved a little bit in the budget. But I don’t have a budget responsibility. Luckily.

Matthew Dols 42:24
I was gonna say that sounds like a great relief to not have to deal with that. But do you have any advice because one of the things I always wondered about is like, Okay, I have never done an exhibition in a museum. So like, if I if I was an outside artist, or any sort of outside person wanting to come in and work with you in the museum, what would you recommend that I, I know or some sort of practice that I might want to do to make it go smoothly, let’s say

Fredrik Willberg 42:56
trust yourself, to stay steady with your visual aspirations, your fantasy, keep it alive, it’s everything is possible. We can fix everything, but it needs to be if the artist is really unsecure, and having a lot of maybe this way, and maybe this way, it then it’s, it becomes quite hard to fulfill your wishes if you don’t really know what you are wishing for. So in that sense, and advice for artists is trust yourself and it’s everything is possible.

Matthew Dols 43:35
Right? But there is a fine line on that. Don’t want to come in there and be like, arrogant and bossy and be like it must be No,

Fredrik Willberg 43:44
no, no, of course you know, we are listening with everything. You don’t have to be super humble, but you know, for me personally it’s really okay if you’re coming and being really cocky it’s it’s it’s quite okay for me but I know that I might be an exception. I generally here like not to be cocky as a smart Yeah, but but ya know, we had this fantastic situation with an Icelandic artists and he came here and he wasn’t cocky but I think we talked for five minutes. And he already called me an asshole. So it was we had this fantastic discussion we just refer to each other as assholes during the build up. Just stupid humor, but it was nice because he was secure and he knew what he wanted. And asked the guy

Matthew Dols 44:40
so I confidence but not Yeah, confidence. That was the word I was looking for. Okay, that’s that’s a good Is there anything any topic that we haven’t talked about that the that you want me to sort of in ask you about?

Fredrik Willberg 44:53
Maybe this thing that was quite new for me also, this partly risk possibility of the building itself also. Because prior to this, I was always working with problem like, how would you say, like I knew what I was supposed to do considering the exhibition. But now I’m also having these issues with the building itself. And a lot of like practical that has nothing to do with art at all.

Matthew Dols 45:30
It’s something that a lot of people, obviously myself included, because I didn’t even think to really ask you much about it. But they, we don’t think about the maintenance and the upkeep of it, of just keeping a museum running.

Fredrik Willberg 45:43
Because it’s a big part of it. If you have a role to know how a museum works, it means that you know how the building works. Because somebody comes here and needs, I needs to connect his or hers computer to an internet connection that’s in the floor, you need to provide this person with the internet connection to that particular port in the floor.

Matthew Dols 46:08
Well, and you will have the sort of the luck slash luxury of the euro, very modern mill building. So you know, there are a lot of museums that don’t have those opportunities, because they’re, you know, historical museums, and they can’t build all those kinds of like internets and things into the floors and things like this. So. So how advanced is the technology that sort of was built into the architecture itself?

Fredrik Willberg 46:34
Well, not quite. But it’s more of an open framework. No, no technology is built in to the building, but we have this infrastructure of good connectivity in the in the building. So the ports are present, and the cabling is present. So we just add, well, that’s logical, because you add the technology that needs to be added afterwards. But it’s also to part this, this building is below ground. And the area we work is historical building. So immediately when I come upstairs, I’m walking in in places that I cannot touch, I can drill a hole in the wall, and I cannot have different problems upstairs. Sure. How do you get around those? improvising, and we need to ask a lot, we need to ask. Yeah,

Matthew Dols 47:30
a lot of gaffer tape, and

Fredrik Willberg 47:32
no, not really, because safety is a big concern. And if if something is haphazardly done, I tend to lose my sleep. So not so much gaffer tape, but more calling people who really know, stuff. For example, can we really do this? Can we drill a hole here? We usually get around by

Matthew Dols 47:58
by asking, well, that’s interesting, because like, you know, from an outsider’s perspective, I have not worked in museums and 20 some odd years. Last Museum, I worked I was the Smithsonian when I was in college. And the assumption that the general public has is that museums do all their own stuff that they don’t really outsource a lot. So like all the people that work there are the people that run and maintain and do all this stuff. But you’re saying that the you all taking up a model of having a lot of sort of outside people sort of influence and assist you all in running?

Fredrik Willberg 48:32
Yeah, because there’s a lot of people involved in this building, because it’s new. So we have a lot of we have the architects drawn the buildings, or the the new part of the building. And then the construction, the people who were in charge of the technical planning, who actually knows where the cables are running engine engineers, yes, those and then the, the more janitor part of the work the the practical guys who come and change the windows or repair a door. I’m not doing that stuff, partly I’m doing but there’s so much I cannot do that these guys have a better knowledge of. So that’s why it’s I think it’s the same situation as with any other bigger building, there’s a lot of people involved.

Matthew Dols 49:25
And so as part of your job, it’s sort of to coordinate not so not necessarily do it yourself. But like, let’s say, I don’t know, you know, some speaker blows out or something that you know who to call and, and where to get a replacement or how to get it repaired or whatever. So it’s a lot of putting people together to the right to get the right things a comp Exactly.

Fredrik Willberg 49:45
Interesting. Yeah, this is a job that it’s, yeah, I can’t. It’s impossible to get bored because no, no days is the same.

Matthew Dols 49:57
I’m sure the older the museum gets, the more Things are gonna start guaranteed. Absolutely. All right, any last thing you want to bring up any last topic?

Fredrik Willberg 50:10
Not really. No, it was nice talking to you. It’s, it’s if if you ask this question, I get to say them out loud also, of course, I’m thinking thinking about them, but I haven’t actually talked so much about it. Anybody.

Matthew Dols 50:25
Thank you very much for your time. Thank you.