Transcript for Episode 143 – Publisher + Photographer, Blue Mitchell, one twelve publishing (Portland, Oregon, USA)

Recorded January 20, 2021
Published on February 2, 2021

Recording here: https://wisefoolpod.com/publisher-photographer-blue-mitchell-one-twelve-publishing-portland-oregon-usa/

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Matthew Dols 0:12
Could you please pronounce your name correctly for me,

Blue Mitchell 0:14
sir? Yeah, it’s Blue Mitchell, just like the color.

Matthew Dols 0:18
And I’ve got to know is that your given name or a nickname?

Blue Mitchell 0:22
It’s my given name, but it’s actually my middle name. So my first name is Brandon. But the parents always call me blue, and it’s stuck.

Matthew Dols 0:29
Okay, you know, there’s a jazz I think musician with the same name as yours.

Blue Mitchell 0:35
Yeah. And my parents were not familiar with him when they named me so it was like a bonus.

Matthew Dols 0:41
Fair enough. All right. All right. So now you are sort of fascinating to me, because you’re one of those people where the, you know, this hyphenated people’s, that we do all kinds of different stuff. So like, you’re a publisher, and artist, and educator, all kinds of different things. So give me like a, an overview of maybe like all the different things that you’re currently doing?

Blue Mitchell 1:02
Sure, well, I have a day job where I do photography and videography and some graphic design for a healthcare company. And then sort of my, my real passion is fine art photography. So I work on that on the side. And my interest in photography led to me publishing, photography, and in an annual magazine, then we have a pretty robust website with showcasing artists on our on our site at 112 Publishing. And the magazine, which is not really magazine anymore. It’s more of a book. It’s called the fusion. And we’ve been doing that for over 10 years now. So trying to get one out a year, on average. Luckily, because it’s my baby, it’s on my timeline. So when I have time to do stuff, it happens.

Matthew Dols 1:55
All right. Now also, a little bit of background, too. So how did you even come to being creative parents school, like what was your childhood like that sort of led you down the path of a creative industry,

Blue Mitchell 2:07
I didn’t excel in a lot of stuff other than maybe English in school, most of my time was spent doing art. And sports really wasn’t really into anything else. So I think I always wanted to be an artist, as a kid, my parents, I would say, are creative, but not not necessarily artists. But they were very supportive of my art interests all the way through elementary school. And definitely in my later years in high school and stuff. I think my interest in photography came more from wanting to do filmmaking really when I was younger. And that was sort of my first passion. But you know, that said, In high school, I took a advertising arts class and kind of fell in love with the graphic design as well. So I sort of dabbled a lot growing up. And, you know, obviously, I want to be an artist when I grew up, but I can figure out how to make money doing that. And so I started leaning on the graphic design a little bit because I knew that seemed like it’d be a little more implausible.

Matthew Dols 3:07
Well, and that’s sort of the point of this podcast, from my perspective, is to try and figure out how people are or prospecting purposes or not making a living and sort of finding that success in their own careers. So what you’ve chosen to do it sounds like is sort of have a stable day job that then allows you the freedom and the free time to be able to you know, spend your time and money on your own creative endeavors outside of work.

Blue Mitchell 3:32
Yeah, very much. So yeah. And even at the it my workplace, I’ve been allowed a lot of freedom to learn and expand my creative skills there. So it’s been nice, because actually, that support at the day job has given me a lot of knowledge for the things I’m doing in my side jobs as well. So and vice versa, like, learning how to be a podcaster has helped me with audio stuff in my day job, you know, so it’s, it’s been a nice combination of things. But yeah, certainly, I need to be able to pay the bills and stuff. And my publishing company does not make money. So we’re, we’re lucky when we break even.

Matthew Dols 4:07
Well, that’s very unfortunate. I mean, I I’m now Weren’t you associated also with pixel plate to pixel pixel, the plate? I’m so bad at mixing things.

Blue Mitchell 4:17
Yeah, that’s called plates to pixels. And that’s sort of how this whole thing started for me, right? When I got out of my undergrad at the Oregon College of Art and Craft, I was doing a work study there the whole three years I was at that school, and it was in the gallery. So I kind of got exposed to how the gallery system works at a college of course, so it was a little different than your like commercial gallery, but I loved it. I thrived in that environment and felt like hey, I want to have a gallery but you know, being a undergrad student graduating and then us going into a recession a couple years later, it seemed like a risky thing to open a gallery. So I started doing this online gallery Just sort of a way for me to dabble into it, and see if I really enjoyed that piece of it. And that led to a few years later, I decided, hey, let’s do a print version of what I’m doing in this online gallery. And that’s how diffusion was born, I decided to give it a different name. So it had his own identity. And it was just like a pet project, like, I’m just gonna do one issue and see if anyone wants it or likes it, you know, I mean, like, I didn’t have any goals, like, Hey, we’re gonna do for these year or, you know, I mean, I wasn’t gonna do them. I was lucky to get one done. It took me a year to publish one, you know, and then figure out the finances around. And really just the logistics in publishing, I didn’t know anything about publishing, I had no education, so I just had to figure it out on my own, you know?

Matthew Dols 5:49
Okay, so well, give me a little bit of background on like, sort of the nuts and bolts of that, like, because from my side, so I’m both a professor, but I’m also a practicing artist. And of course, I’m always interested, like, when I submit something to a publication, how does that process go about? Like, do you have a committee of people that are deciding what’s included in the publications? Or is this just you and you’re like, Yeah, I love this stuff, I’m gonna put it in.

Blue Mitchell 6:14
It’s been a mixed bag, I’ve had some guests, curators come on board for certain issues. And, and the magazine is changed a lot. I used to do a lot more written stuff with articles. And so I had a lot of, I’ve had a lot of contributors over the years helped me out kind of, you know, like, I’ll have an artist say, hey, I want to do I want to do a feature on these three artists. And then I’m like, Okay, yeah, go for it. And so they have, a lot of our contributors have kind of molded what’s in the magazine over the years, the most recent issues. It’s just been my wife and I curating the whole thing, which has been a great partnership for her. And I think it’s been less three issues we’ve done together. And, and so it’s definitely like a family thing. Yeah. Yeah, just depends on the issue. I change it up every, every time I try to make it different. Now, I’m just trying to make it bigger and better at this point.

Matthew Dols 7:05
Well, I mean, because what I’m thinking is like, if I’m a curator, let’s say listening to this podcast that I might go like, I can like somebody submit saying, hey, like, I would like to curate the next edition for you or something like this.

Blue Mitchell 7:18
You know, I’ve never done like an open call for curation. It’s usually been private, like, Hey, I really like your style. I think he’d be a good fit. Would you want to curate an issue for us? So it’s typically Yeah, of course, I’d probably be open to the idea of some awesome curator called me up and said, Hey, I want to do something with you. You know, but that’s never happened. So

Matthew Dols 7:38
when Jerry salts calls, you’re all right. Yeah, go for it, man. What do you want to do? I’m not sure you listen to the podcast. So just assume that’s not gonna happen. But so you say that like that, that it doesn’t make any money or anything like this. So like, to a certain extent, it? It’s one of the things like, we’re all creative, we all have our little outlets and stuff. It’s like, there’s a certain point where it’s like, when do you say, Okay, I’m just gonna keep doing it. And I’m gonna make it my thing, or when was there a point where you’re able to sometimes you’re like, screw it. I’ve invested too much money in this. And it’s not doing anything for me. Like, have you ever run into that situation? in those that case?

Blue Mitchell 8:20
Oh, I think every year I have, I have a freakout moment. Usually, like halfway through developing an issue, I’ll have a freakout moment, like why the hell am I doing this, I spent a lot of time for not a lot of financial gain. But for me, it’s been it’s a passion project. So I’ve gained so much out of the publishing on a personal level, the money piece of it, it’s just not, it’s just not even relative anymore. You know, the, I have been able to travel and do photo reviews all over the country because of this publication. I’ve made a ton of great friends, I’ve had a lot of opportunities to work with galleries to show work from the magazine. So I’ve had a lot of shows come out of a, we’ve for a while there, we were doing a show a year with diffusion, if not more, so we’d showcase the artists that are in the magazine at a guest gallery. And we’ve done that all over the country. And in the US. Of course, we did have a we we worked with some folks in China and we were able to do a show at the Alicia a photo festival a few years back. So yeah, it’s it’s it’s garnered so much more opportunities for me just on a professional level and a friend level. I’ve made such great friends in the industry because of it. And so yeah, that’s that’s really what keeps me going. It has nothing really to do with the finance piece of it. You know, I also started this thing up, like at a really bad time magazines. Were going under, you know, books were not being published as much You know, this is like self publishing became a thing right when I was doing this and then so there was a bit of a time period people like why are you starting a magazine right now? This is crazy. Like there’s no you know, there’s no really good resources for magazine anymore, just because of online, anyway, yeah, like, I’ve never. It’s not like swimming up river, I’ve pretty much tried to swim down river, but it does sometimes feel like I’m doing things at the wrong time. But I think that’s why people appreciate it. You know, like, that’s why all these people are like what we do because we do a print magazine and, and we try really hard to make it high quality. Like I said, I feel like it’s just been more of a, I’ve gained so much personally from it. There’s no I can’t quantify

Matthew Dols 10:30
financially. Well, it’s an interesting conversation because like, my wife works in accounting. So she’s she goes to work, she shows up at nine, she leaves at five, she does her job, she does her job, well, she’s got her job, there’s no problems. Whereas in the creative industries were very different. Like we, we will often do projects for a year, two years, five years to try and build something that ends up not being that thing we were building, but it’s the tertiary things that happened because of this thing. We built kind of thing, for sure. Yeah. And it’s just a lot of people in the world don’t understand us for that.

Blue Mitchell 11:08
Yeah, I couldn’t agree more. I feel like that’s, you know, like, I look back, you know, with a suite for publishing our 10th issue of diffusion this year, and it’s on a press right now, I should see it, hopefully in a week or so. But, you know, in reflecting on the 10 years, we’ve been doing this, it’s like, part of what I wrote in my introduction was like, This is not just this publication. To me, this is a community, this has been sort of a place for like minded photographers to kind of come together in it, which is great, because we provided online forums, and I’ve done the shows and stuff. So it’s been more than just this publication. And I think that’s been such a nice way to knit it all together. And plus, it’s incorporate all my passions, you know, being able to do you know, I’ve been basically, I built off the website did a magazine, I built off the magazine did shows, and then, you know, built off my, the people that I’ve been working with and did my podcast, you know, most of the people I talked to you on the podcast, or people that I’ve met through the publication, essentially, or these photo reviews and stuff like that, which by the way, I

Matthew Dols 12:13
don’t believe we mentioned the name of the podcast is the diffusion tapes.

Blue Mitchell 12:17
Yes, yes. I’m lucky to get one out a month, but I think it took me a year and a half to release 10 episodes. So yeah, it’s definitely one of those you know, I think you what do you do three in a week or something? two a week. So a little different?

Matthew Dols 12:35
Well, yeah, my life is, I have time, let’s say when I added I will remove all of your arms and stutters and things like this, but not mine. Because the podcast is called the wise fool. So I come off looking like an idiot. But I make my guests sound really intelligent and intellectual. So yeah, I love it. It’s great. It’s great title, by the way. Thank you. Well, we came to me like the idea was that it? We all are sort of wise fools. You know, we all have our specializations that we’re really skilled at and knowledgeable about and you know, we have our sort of expertise in, but there are so many other things. And in the case of this, I thought, I know, like my niche of the art world, but there are so many other parts of the art world that I know nothing about. And that’s pretty much it. We’re all that. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Okay, one question I have about 112 Publishing. Where’d you get the name?

Blue Mitchell 13:39
It’s funny you asked. It’s, I’ll try to give you the bridge story. But when I met my wife, she was in school, getting her interior design degree. And I was just going back to school to finish up my art degree. And we worked at her retail place together. And that’s how I met her. And one day I went in, and I saw on the schedule of employees that were coming in for the day, there was some chicken scratch, and it looked like this person’s name was 112. So I asked the manager, I’m like, Who’s 112? And they’re like, oh, that I just, I just can’t write very well. That’s Liz Li z. And it looked like a one, one and a two. And it’s like, oh, that’s funny. And then later, we start dating. And I started calling her 112 because of that incident, and then when it decided to do the publishing company, I was like, well, that’d be cool if it’s just some random name that nobody knows about. But in honor of her, you know, because she’s been so supportive of me over the years.

Matthew Dols 14:36
It’s very nice. Yeah, that’s a good way. That’s a good reason for that name. Well, and also so Okay, so you brought up that you are married and you have children or child to two girls, 10 and six. Okay. Now, one thing that I’ve often talked with, with people, mostly women about but I’m also interested in the male side of this is the issue of sort of how does being a parent change your perspective on either the work you produce or sort of the priority of making your thing like silly, you know, do you because I don’t currently have any children, but I plan to in the near future. And I sort of wonder about like that is, was there a shift in your methodology, your practice your concerns about your work, you know,

Blue Mitchell 15:23
really, when diffusion took off is right around the same time we had our first kid. So it has grown with the kids in a lot of ways. So I haven’t, I haven’t had to shift or change or anything, it’s kind of been like, the publication and the stuff I do online is just when I have time, right, it’s not, that’s why I don’t put any deadlines.

Matthew Dols 15:45
Because

Blue Mitchell 15:46
it’s it, sometimes it takes me a long time to get to stuff. And that’s because the family is my priority. And of course, my job and you know, so I’ll spend time with the kids rather than working in the studio. So you know, my own, I think maybe the only thing that that has suffered a bit is my own art, productivity for myself doing my photography, but I’m okay with that, you know, it took for a while there, I was, like, Oh, I need to go do this and do that. And it was a lot of self pressure. And, you know, it’s been long enough now that I’m like, I’m totally fine with the art just coming when it comes. And, you know, diffusion coming out when it comes out. You know, like, for instance, this last issue, prior to this pandemic situation, I was already way behind, because my day job is very demanding, and, you know, got kids and I’m okay with it. People are used to me that no, the fusion comes out when it comes out, you know, you know, I mean, like, there’s no, I never tell people like, there’s that’s gonna come out, you know, it might come out

Matthew Dols 16:44
at this point, but you never know. It’s due sometime in the end of the year.

Blue Mitchell 16:49
Yeah. And I’ve said that it’s been about the next year or so.

Matthew Dols 16:52
Okay, okay. So not even some time. All right, fair enough. All right. You also mentioned portfolio reviews, I’m fascinated by portfolio reviews, I have been on both ends of it, I’ve been both reviewed. And I have been a review er, and I’m interested in some of your experiences with either end of that sort of whole situation. Because like I do, well, I am a professor. So of course, I’ve done million of them in the classroom, but I also do them online for lens culture, they do an anonymous one. So like the person receiving it doesn’t know who’s doing it. So it’s kind of nice and freeing that we’re able to do it anonymously, because they can’t get angry with me. If, yeah, it’s got a little bit of freedom to it that like I, you know, when I sit across the table from somebody doing a portfolio review that I might be a little bit kinder, because I don’t want them to be angry with me, because then that’s, you know, potentially hurts my reputation for whatever reason, kind of things. So like, there’s a, there’s a little bit of a balancing act in there.

Blue Mitchell 18:03
Yeah, so I sort of jumped the table, I like to say that because I’ve actually never been to any of these formal reviews with my own work sitting on, you know, the review II side, I’ve always been a reviewer from the get go. And that’s probably because diffusion launch at the same time, like I was kind of coming into my own for my artwork and stuff. So, and honestly, because of my experience, being a reviewer, I’m a little more timid to be a review on the other side. So I feel like, I’m going to, you know, if I look at my I’m so critical in my own work that I can see what I would say about it and be like, I don’t know, if I want to deal with that, you know,

Matthew Dols 18:45
one thing I have about that, like so like when it comes to being a review, or like they’re okay, in contemporary photography industry, there’s this whole, you want the image to be somewhat aesthetically compelling. I’m not gonna say beautiful, so the compelling moves you in some way. And then there’s also the statements. And then of course, even when you’re sitting in front of a portfolio review, you’re talking about, like, the personality and the charisma of that person as well. So like, how much do these different parts of that relationship that’s being created, like affect you?

Blue Mitchell 19:21
It affects me a lot it well, I’ll be honest. So one of the there’s a caveat here, I think I’ve had a lot of reviewers sit down at my table, and the first thing they’ll say is like, oh, I’ve heard you’re a nice guy. And as nice as that is to hear, I also think kind of what you’re saying, like, I don’t know if I like that because that means I’m sure coding things. Maybe, you know, when I’m talking to people, I try to be as honest as I can, but I do sugarcoat my honesty, you know, I’m saying like, I think what you were saying about being able to be a little more critical about stuff and not hurt somebody’s feelings would be maybe a little better, but at the same time, that’s just too I am in general. So I think it’s okay. You know, I’m alright with that. This year because of the pandemic, I’ve been asked to do reviews virtually. And I did do some for click photo Fest in North Carolina. And it is great as it was to connect with people and do those reviews online, I didn’t really like it, I really didn’t thrive. Well, in that situation. As far as a reviewer, I felt like they weren’t getting what they would have got from me if I had just seen them in person. So what you were talking about with the charisma and that kind of stuff, like it affects me for sure, when I’m reviewing, and when we’re doing this screen sharing, like, I can’t see the prints in person, and I can’t like you know, I’m a tactile person, I want to feel it and see it I want to see, like three dimensional photography. So that’s sort of what our niches and so for me reviewing stuff online, I’m sort of guessing, guessing about it. And it just I don’t have as much to say, because I can’t, you know, I can’t really experience the work as well. So right now, like, I’ve had to say no to a lot of reviews, because I just I’m not interested in doing the online review thing right now. So I’m like, hey, shoot me some prints, and we’ll talk about it.

Matthew Dols 21:08
Yeah, well, shippings a bear right now, too, with all everything’s taking way to lie. The shipment Recently, there was like six weeks late, it was ridiculous. But anyways. So not liking online portfolio reviews. I totally understand that. So but they’re, they’re virtual. So it mean, is it like a virtual studio tour? Or is it like formalized kind of thing? Like, I’ve never done them? But I personally find the whole situation very awkward. I don’t think it would be, like you said like, I don’t think it would be as fulfilling for me as a review. II as it could be. Right.

Blue Mitchell 21:45
Yeah. I mean, what so like, the one that I’ve done, it’s like, same as you and I, I’m looking at you on screen, you’re looking at me on screen, and then you put up your portfolio, and we flip through it and talk about it, you know, through zoom or whatever. And it’s Yeah, it’s not, it’s not the same, of course, it’s nice to see the person and talk to them. But you know, being able to see it in person, like I said, is so much better.

Matthew Dols 22:07
Agree. Yeah. You mentioned working with galleries? Hmm, yeah. You know, everybody has this, you know, romantic idea that a gallery is like the end all be all, like, you get a gallery and then you’ve you’ve made it kind of stuff. So like, how have you? How is your relationships with galleries been? Have you had good experiences, bad experiences? How did you build them? How did you nurture them? Because that’s one that I always wonder about, like, it’s easy to make a relationship, but I find it more difficult to like, continually nurture that relationship.

Blue Mitchell 22:41
Yeah. Well, it’s, I haven’t had a bad experience. It’s good

Matthew Dols 22:45
to hear. But I

Blue Mitchell 22:46
have had situations where I might, you know, like, I don’t think I’d go back to that gallery necessarily. But it’s, it’s not because of my relationship, it’s typically I have found out how they treated the artists in it as far as like, you know, payments. And, you know, if you sell a piece, are they getting paid on time? Or, you know, are they charging so much for shipping or whatever, like, whatever their policies are, but for the most part, I haven’t had any issues. And we have, we’ve mostly worked with smaller galleries that kind of thrive off the, the juried show model, so they’re able to kind of fit in random diffusion show in their schedule, we’ve had some pretty nice shows. So it’s kind of nice to see, like, stuff out there. And in the world where I don’t live or I don’t have any control over, you know, I’m interesting, but most of these people that I’m working with, I’ve met through photo reviews, for the most part. So I’ve met them in person, we have a relationship. And so I think we’re constantly nurturing that stuff, just just because I like these people, you know what I mean? So, I probably won’t work with someone, just because they have a cool gallery. But if I don’t, if we don’t get along, if we don’t jive, then it’s probably not the best match, you know, okay,

Matthew Dols 24:01
I’ll send you my portfolio when we’re all done with this.

Blue Mitchell 24:08
But that scene, though, has changed tremendously. As you know, like, over the years, all these galleries have had to change their models, and you know, a lot of them are struggling and so anything I can do to sort of help them at the same time, it’s just get exposure, get more people come into their place are getting more submittals from people that follow us, you know, that kind of stuff. So it’s a good partnership, I think.

Matthew Dols 24:31
Okay, you mentioned exposure. I’m always fascinated with social media. Do you use it? Do you like it?

Blue Mitchell 24:37
I do. Yeah. Without the social media, we wouldn’t be able to get it near as many online sales for the publication. But yeah, I’m not on there. As much as I should be. Like, I’m not a big social media, like I don’t push it a lot. Luckily, I’ve had, you know, interns in the past that are good at that and they’ll help me, I can do it. And I and I sometimes like to do But yeah, I haven’t torn because it’s, it’s not something I’m real passionate about. But I know that’s how I reach the people that I need to be reaching. Especially like nowadays, no Instagram wasn’t around when I started this. But nowadays, it seems like Instagram is the place for me to promote diffusion and to promote the artists that we work with. Because so many people are on that platform. It’s an easy way to connect. And it’s visually based, it’s not, you know, saying like, I moved to Instagram, because hey, this is a visual place. And that’s kind of what we do. So that’s important for me. And, you know, I kind of have Twitter account, we don’t use it. Like, I just don’t, I’m not into that. I kind of wish we did that more, because we’d probably be more successful in a lot of ways, but I just not, I’m not interested, personally.

Matthew Dols 25:43
Yeah, Twitter, I’m not a fan. Everybody that I know that, like, uses Twitter on a regular basis is either one of two things angry, because it’s just them just general rhetoric on there, or they’re obsessed about it. And I don’t want either of those things. I’ve got enough concerns in my life, I don’t need to be concerned about some, you know, virtual something or other conversation that I don’t need to be having. Yeah. Okay. I have a question about your work. So you’re publishing fabulous, your work. I use him to use a lot of alternative processes and different things like this one thing I’ve wondered, and keep in mind, my backgrounds, also photography, in case you didn’t research me. So just to be clear, do you sell like unique works? Or do you make additions and prints and things like this?

Blue Mitchell 26:35
Oh, actually, it depends on the series I have, I have a silver leaf series that they’re just silver leaf with resin on them. And they’re one offs, there’s no I do, I’ll do like a series of 10 of them. But to be frank, I’ll make maybe two or three to start. And then if they sell, I’ll make more because they’re so labor intensive pieces, I do like a photo transfer. So that’s, you know, the, the image is one thing, but then the process of make the final image is is like three times more work, you know, so those pieces are originals. You know, I don’t do prints from those. But I have some other work that are only like digital prints. So the way I created it was more unique. And but the print itself is a digital print, but, and kind of how I work around that is I just do limited editions of of each one. So that way, I’m not printing out 1000s of prints, I’m just not interested in that. I don’t sell that much anyway. So for me, I can do an addition of 10. And I’m cool.

Matthew Dols 27:33
Well, that’s what I was gonna ask is like, because like, you know, a lot of people in their romantic ideas of being an artist were like, oh, I’ll make an addition of 1000 and bla bla, you know, but I find that like, what, especially for like, when my own work like smaller run additions actually seem to be there’s something about scarcity that makes people desire it more than if you say like, yeah, I’ve got 100 of these. They’re like, I can get it later. Right? Oh, yeah. But if you say, hey, they’re only seven, suddenly you’re like, oh, gotta buy it now. Okay. Yeah.

Blue Mitchell 28:03
Yeah. No, I agree. I like the process of crafting work. And that’s also what we publish a lot of, you know, I call it artfully crafted. But you know, a lot of handcrafted photography is where I’m interested in. So and that stems from my own photography in a lot of ways because I like to get dirty, and I like to get messy. And I don’t have a darkroom anymore. So I chose a medium where I can still kind of spend a lot of time doing nuances with my work that without the darkroom process, and I still get the same kind of benefit from it personally. So yeah, I feel like the way you know, like, I, I’ve been shooting polarized lately, and it’s like, how do you deal with selling Polaroids? Do you sell your original? Or do you make prints and so I was like, well, I’ll just scan them and make some prints from them, but I’ll just limit them. And, you know, every every time I approach a new project, I look at it differently the have a series called ups of salt Earth, and that series are all digital prints, and I decided just to do additions of those. And it’s kind of the first time I’ve done just a straight digital print portfolio. So I was like, Okay, I need to figure out how to make this work. And for me to make it like feel

Matthew Dols 29:19
like it had the craft to it. Let’s put it that way. No, I totally understand what I mean. Within that. Okay, so like, let’s say you make an addition what what do you do like cuz like, I’m a bit OCD myself, like I have this very elaborate certificate of authenticity. And then I have like, numbered hologram matching stickers that I put on the back of the print on the certificate like do you do all that kind of stuff when you’re getting ready to sell it?

Blue Mitchell 29:44
No, I’ve never done that. But I do. I do know a lot of people that do and I get that because it’s it kind of like, validates it. I feel like that kind of follows it along like I had a show years ago at a gallery in San Antonio called gallery Nord. And they sold I think I don’t know, eight or so of my pieces the most I’ve ever sold. And they’re like $1,000 a pop and, and I in hindsight, I was like, none of these people actually know me. You know, like, I didn’t mean I didn’t know any of these collectors in San Antonio. I live in Portland like, I didn’t know any of them. And I always thought in hindsight, like all they got is my signature on the back of the piece. Like they don’t have any other information about me, like, how do they know those are going to be any type of collector’s item? The fact that they brought eight makes me think they were collecting, you know what I mean? So I thought it was one person that bought eight pieces. Yeah, I think one person bought six and maybe two other sold or something like that. So yeah, it was definitely a big collector that I was like, well, maybe I should have made those better for collectors. You know, but I didn’t know back then. Because I was pretty new to this. Yeah. So I don’t know I, I kind of look at him like paintings like, hey, that’s just they are what they are. You know what I mean? Like, I don’t,

Matthew Dols 30:56
oh, man, I knew this guy. Kind of, I don’t remember his name. But this guy was an undergrad with on the back of his paintings. He would write this really long and intricate, like, set of codes and stuff that basically like broke down to it was like a long sentence and it had a series of words and all the words we’re basically where he was when he painted it. What the date he started it what medium he used. What girl he was dating at the time what car he was driving, I mean, like, all these random facts and stuff. So that it sort of chronicle the time by which over he painted this set, and he and I asked him I said why did you why’d you do all this? He’s like, just to confuse future historians.

Blue Mitchell 31:36
I love it though. Man. Put something interesting on there like that. Yeah,

Matthew Dols 31:40
it was ridiculous. I still have a I traded him I have a piece of his and it’s just like, I have no i don’t think even fair was name is from it, because there’s just so much written on the back. Anyways, but Okay, back to the whole, like, sort of editions versus like, original thing. So one of the things like for me, okay, so I’ve been doing photography for too long, 30 years, like, if you include, you know, Intermediate School in high school, but I’ve sort of moved beyond it, like I am, to a certain extent, I’m a little bit less, we’re bored with like, just like, I know, that sounds bad. Sorry, photographers, but a little bit, like bored, which is like the straight like, take a picture make a print boring to me. Like it’s there are so many amazing photographs already been produced. I don’t know what I can add to it, you know, kind of thing. And so like, I feel like a lot of like putting that hand of the artist making those unique things, you know, painting on them, tearing them sanding them doing whether you’re tearing them, whatever you burn them, whatever, do something more than just the the print is somewhat sort of desirable to people, I think that uniqueness is something that people are looking for. And so I guess what I’m asking you is, do you see that there’s a difference between the people buying or partly, maybe even the quantity of people buying your unique works versus your auditioned works?

Blue Mitchell 33:04
Yeah, I haven’t sold hardly any of just my straight digital prints slugging? Those are few and far between, you know, it’s more people that are on a budget, they’ll go for those prints. But yeah, definitely the stuff that I’ve put way more labor into have been way more of interest for people and collectors, for sure. And a lot of the people I know that have bought, my pieces in the past are friends too. So I can’t really say one way or the other, like, what their interest was, they just buying it because they want to support me, obviously, they must like the image, but do they care about the medium? You know, I think that’s a consumer interest. But I think the world that I live in which I feel like is a bit of a small microcosm of photography, where people are doing handcrafted work, like you were saying mixed media work. Those folks appreciate it. And that’s sort of where I live, you know, I live in this little that world. I do love a lot of other photography, but I have a hard time doing it myself. And also, I can respect a lot of photography out there that is just straight prints because of the content of the work, you know, of the image itself. But my you know, in my personal work, it’s it’s not enough in fact, the part of what is my education, I started at the Montana State University in their film program and I fell in love with photography because the darkroom so I kind of switched majors and went over to the, the steel side of things. And as I was sort of developing as a photographer, I started seeing, like for color, for instance, I was shooting cut color slide, and then black and white darkroom. Well then I kind of got disenchanted with the whole university system because I just really wanted to do art. So I was like, I think I need to quit and go find an art school so I could just do so I can be more well rounded as an artist instead of as just a Citizen. And, but I did find a moment in my life where I was, like, I’m just so bored of shooting black and white film and color film, you know, this was when I was it was all film at the time and, and I got really, like disenchanted with photography, I was like I, I just don’t think that I’m ever going to be able to do what I want to do. Because this, I’m shooting and I’m enjoying what I’m out there shooting. But then when I look at the images later, I’m like snoozefest, you know. So I had to find a way to make photography interesting. And that’s why I went to the Oregon College of Art and Craft, they had a great alternative process program there, you got to learn all the historical methods. And then I fell back in love with photography. And that’s sort of what led me here was that education in kind of the history of photography, not just, you know, this person did this when but more like, get your hands dirty, and figure out how to use all these chemicals. And, you know, I always admit I’m not the best technician. So a lot of these things are major fails for me and they and I still have a lot of failures with processes. But I still love it. You know, I like getting dirty, and I like printmaking, there’s just so many variables to photography that you can do. And that’s what how I fell back in love with photography. It was just like, let’s just get dirty and make, you know, really crafted pieces.

Matthew Dols 36:21
Oh, yeah. When I was in school, I remember a lot of the, the other people so like the stone sculptors and the the woodworkers and stuff they used to, like mock us photographers, they’re like you all they’re just lazy artists. All you do is click a shutter and make a print. And you’re done. Like I have to carve this stone for a month, every day just to get one thing. You know, so like, yeah, I mean, and I mean, my father is also does painting which he’s on another episode of this podcast, so that he listened is but I mean, I love the act of getting dirty. Like I love the the act of like being creative and being tired and dirty and smelly. Like I loved. I still have a fetish for the smell of fixer upper like God’s still doing. I can’t tell you the things I used to do in a darkroom. But

Blue Mitchell 37:17
they have a great sensory relationship for me with some previous relationships. So yeah, well, we used to joke that we needed to make a fix or cologne. Right for

Matthew Dols 37:34
people. Oh, that’s horrible. Yeah. Nobody else would like to smell them yet. But I would love the smell of it. Like, oh, it would be so good. Yeah, but I mean, I just I yeah, I’m a huge fan of like people who like put their whole body into the work. Like I, at one point, I actually did very large scale work where I was sort of taking like Matthew Barney’s idea of like, you know, using your whole body. And so like, the shapes of my things were literally like, the shapes that my appendages could do kind of stuff like so. So I’m trying, I’m showing this on video. And obviously, nobody can hear it. But the, the, the wingspan of my arms became like, the size of my of my marks that I created and things like this. And like, that’s a really great sort of visceral experience to like, be part of it versus just take a picture, put it into Lightroom print it out on a piece of paper. Don’t get me wrong, I love a beautiful print. I mean, I feel like I’m smack talking to a lot of photographers here. But, but like, I love a good photograph. ado, I admire them. And there’s, you know, there’s they’re great photographers out there that can do things that I never could create. And that’s why I’m sort of just one like, I don’t want to compete with that. Like, okay, here, let me give you this one. Nothing personal to the photographers who are listening to this nor to you blue, I apologize. I’m generally not friends with photographers, I find them to be generally very catty, and competitive and, and very pompous. They’re all like, Oh, you shoot with a Nikon? Oh, shoot with a canon. Oh, your lens has a red ring around it. Mine doesn’t like fuck off. Like, I hate that shit. Like, what happened for me was I went to grad school. And when I showed up at grad school, I sat down for the first critique and they they all put up their stuff. And the first question that was asked was so what paper Did you print that on? Like, what the fuck cares what paper you printed that on? Like the point is, what are you trying to express? Why are you trying to express this? Have you conveyed it? Well, this kind of stuff like it’s not the technical shit, and photographers more than any other medium. They care too much about showing off with their expensive equipment and you know, trying to impress by using Harmon mule papers and all this. Don’t get me wrong. I love Harman Miele papers by But it’s just I find the photographers were often a bit as a general broad stroke, competitive caddy sort of one upmanship. And I’m, and so I decided just not to be part of that game.

Blue Mitchell 40:14
Well, that’s that’s actually goes well with what I was saying is I feel like I have a little niche myself of there’s this group of photographers that really doesn’t care about that stuff. There’s, they’re more into the handcrafted work, and I and I do I’m with you, like, I love a good print as well. But for me, it’s like, well, I don’t care. Like I’ve been a photographer for a long time. And I know enough to get by, but I get tripped up on equipment, like I don’t, I don’t care about equipment most of the time, like it does it do what I want it to do. And that’s all that’s all I care about. I don’t care if it’s like a, what lens it is, like, in this happens in my day job a lot, because I do have a more technical job doing, you know, basically commercial, you know, corporate photography, so I kind of have to know, enough to make that stuff work, especially with video and stuff. You know, and I often get down on myself, because I’m not as good as all these other people because but I’m also like, that’s also not where my interest lies, like, I’m more interested in. How does this shoot work? You know, as long as my audio is good, and everything looks nice, like I don’t care as long as long as the end product is what I envisioned it to be, then I’m happy, right? So, but in that there’s a lot of failures because I cuz I’m not super technical, you know, like, Oh, I had my aperture was totally off on that shoot, like I have my ISO is way high turned out grainy, like, Oh, shit, I gotta figure that out next time. So there’s a lot of on the job, like, you know, like, I just go shoot, and then later I’m like, Oh, I, I had the settings all jacked up. I should have done that differently. You know, so I have to really go out of my way to plan a shoot. So I know like, Okay, what am I doing today? What kind of environment am I shooting in? It takes me a little extra effort. Because I just don’t think about that stuff. I’m just more of an organic shooter most of the time.

Matthew Dols 42:05
Yeah. Yeah. Okay, I see. It’s funny, I probably over I probably over plan. And then what it’s funny, I had to explain this to somebody recently. I plan obsessively for my photoshoots like, I will even have like clothing custom designed for the shoe to get a tailored and make a piece of clothing that doesn’t exist in the world. And I will, like obsess about the time of day to get them, right, beautiful, natural light, the location, all this kind of shit. But then as soon as I get to the photoshoot, I don’t care. It’s just like, you know, I’m a I’m a ahead of time planner. And then I’m very much like a wing it once were there, because I’ve sort of created all the criteria. I’ve said, like, Okay, I’ve got this piece and this piece in this piece, and they’re all there. Now, let’s see what they all have. What happens when they all come together?

Blue Mitchell 42:58
That’s great, because you’ve checked all those boxes before you get there. So you don’t have to worry about it.

Matthew Dols 43:04
Yeah, but 99% of the time, the it’s funny of the image that I like, go there trying to create is almost never the image that ends up being the most beautiful, sir. Isn’t that great, though? It is? Yeah, yeah. No, it’s always something better than what I had originally thought of, you know, like, I mean, I can’t tell you like, I generally do figurative works and stuff. And like, it’s that collaboration when I’m working with another person, like the things that suddenly they add to the image that I could never have imagined that suddenly is like, Oh, my God, that’s so much better than I could have imagined. Right, right. So like, I love that collaborative process that of you know, is basically it’s like, I was a boy scout and a Cub Scouts was like, be prepared. So like, you gather everything, and you’re prepared as prepared as you can be, and then allow for the spontaneity to happen. Hmm,

Blue Mitchell 43:53
well, that’s good. Because I feel like when you’re working with someone who you’re collaborating with, if you’re not planned to, then I mean, you got to have some sort of plan for you guys to be working in this environment together to make it work, right. Otherwise, it could just be, you know, they could be disappointed with you. Right? Cuz like, you don’t know what you’re doing, man.

Matthew Dols 44:15
And they may be disappointed with me, and they just don’t say it. I don’t know. Who the fuck knows.

Blue Mitchell 44:22
So tell me about the collaboration though. When do you feel like are you? Are you specifically talking about your models? When you’re collaborating? Or? Or?

Matthew Dols 44:31
Oh, no, I mean, what like I would have to collaborate with a model a hair and makeup artist and potentially even a clothing designer. So there would be a number of different people and so like, I would have to build out whole backstories of like, this is what I’m trying to express. This is what I want to convey. This is how I want this to look. I wanted to have the feeling of this the time period, the whatever, you know, like the whole series standard, like mood board basically of the whole but of course my pain is like I obsess a bit too. Cuz like, I will go around like a dozen different fabric stores to try and find like just the right fabric. And this goes back to my mother’s also an interior designer. So like, so like looking for just that right fabric that drapes just the way I want it.

Blue Mitchell 45:15
I love it. Yeah, I know, do you so do you feel like with that collaboration, though, that you you become more excited and more successful because you have other people’s input on your shoots? Oh, absolutely.

Matthew Dols 45:27
Like, I’m always the basically what I try my best to do, because of course, I’m sure some I don’t know, I’d maybe I read this or heard this somewhere. But they basically surround yourself with people that you respect, and then trust them to do their jobs. So that, you know, you try and hire the best people or collaborate with the best people that you can and then just basically give them something to start them off. And then and then just hope that they do their thing. And if you can surround yourself with qualified, you know, quality people that they will sort of step up also, and create things that again, like I could never have imagined. So yeah, that’s great. Yeah, sadly, I don’t do that anymore. I don’t even own a camera anymore.

Blue Mitchell 46:11
Are you still making art? Oh,

Matthew Dols 46:13
I got this shit. I’m trying to think what I can legally say. I have a lot of prints that I made at my last employment. And what I do now is I actually work. So like, nobody on the podcast can see it. But like I got a piece behind me here. But I use prints that are done on like nice watercolor papers like reves bfk, your February all knows your Epson hotpress Digital prints, paper. And I fold them and then I like layer them decapod I paint a sand I put a GT like silver leaf on them. So they’re very tactile and very visceral sort of creating layers of skin almost on top of the image. Because like, something that hit me a couple years ago, how many others thought five years ago now was like, I was putting all this time and effort to build an image. I’m like, I got to create this amazing image. And then I suddenly realize why can’t like how much of that? Do I really need to still express that idea? And how much of it can i deconstruct or remove? And so I’ve got all these, I’ve got hundreds of prints. And now I’m deconstructing those prints and trying to say like, Okay, what can I take away? And what’s unnecessary to express that idea?

Blue Mitchell 47:41
Oh, I love that. That’s great, in fact, that that’s exactly what I tell people when we’re doing portfolio reviews, is like if there’s a lot of process, because that’s people are drawn to me. They want to review with me because they know I like process and all that kind of stuff. So when I’m reviewing work, that’s one of the questions I asked, like, why are you doing it this way? You know, what’s the point of your process? Like? How does that process help your imagery to get to really your, your, what your vision was for your photograph? Why are you using this process to get there? And I asked about my own work. But you know, it’s like you said, You’re deconstructing the image, like, I used to put way too much processing, and then it totally lost the whole point of what I was going for originally. So then, I’ve gone through the same thing that you’ve gone through is like, okay, and I need to back that down. And really simplify and say, What is really what am I really trying to do here? And why am I spending all this time doing stuff that doesn’t really get to the point, it’s not helping my image? In fact, in some times, it’s just making it like, look messy and worse.

Matthew Dols 48:45
Oh, yeah. I mean, I, I’ve played with so many different techniques, like I think our careers are probably pretty similar, like, because I played with gum bichromate Van Dyck brown cyanotypes. I mean, my God, like the man, I used to run a public community darkroom. So like, I used to play with every process, I could try and encourage my view of the people that came in to try all kinds of different things. And what they, one of the things is always why like, so like, whatever choice you’re making you like I always say, like, you need to be able to answer why did you make that choice? So you don’t if you can’t defend that? I mean, it doesn’t have to be some deeply philosophical thing you don’t do? Well, I did it because Kant is beliefs in the philosophy of Buddha, none of that shit, but like, but like, as long as you can give a good explanation of why you chose this and why you believe that that’s necessary to express your idea, then it’s fine. It’s good enough, but if you can’t answer why, then maybe it’s not necessary.

Blue Mitchell 49:46
Right? Exactly. That’s such a good point. Is that’s one of the things with publishing diffusion. We get so many submissions that are are like you know, alternative process work historical process and, and oftentimes Because I’m not sitting down with that person in a portfolio review, I just look at it and go, well, it’s a great image. But why did they do it this way? Like That is my first question. I don’t understand why you did a collodion for this image, is it just because you wanted it to look old? Because that feels like that’s all you’re trying to do here is make it look old. And if that’s what you’re doing, I don’t think you’re doing it for the right reasons. You know what I mean? So that’s actually why I like the face to face because I get that, like, Hey, why are you choosing to do it this way? You know, if you’re just trying to make it look antique, then I feel like, you shouldn’t be doing that. I mean, maybe that works for an overarching series or something that you’re working on. But I’m the same way. I need to know why you’re doing it like, and that’s what like when I was doing alternative process, darkroom processes, I started asking myself that question too, like, what, why am I doing 10 types cuz I don’t think I need to be doing 10 types for this work.

Matthew Dols 50:57
I love tintypes.

Blue Mitchell 51:00
Me too. Well, that that was why I started because I just loved them. But then I realized a lot of the work I was doing, it didn’t really make sense that I was doing it and 10 times, so I, I kind of like backed away from those like, it’s not really, it’s a lot of work for something that’s really not giving me the results that I should be. It’s like the same thing. I backed away from it. Like, I don’t really need to be doing it that way.

Matthew Dols 51:22
But the one medium that I’ll tell you, I swear I’ve seen so many people use it in such a poor manner is cyanotypes. Like cyanotypes there are only certain subjects or structures that look good in blue, but not so sure. Not every topic looks good in blue and light oil. I’ve seen so many bad images done in cyanotype. Like that, if they had just chosen to do it in gum bichromate or vandyke. Brown might have been stunning. But the blue is such a nice color that doesn’t Sorry, no, but nothing personal. It’s your name. But like it’s such a nice color that like it just doesn’t render a lot of subjects really well.

Blue Mitchell 52:06
No, I agree that that’s again, I see a lot of cyanotype stuff coming in. And I always I love cyanotype I love how they look but it but it’s at the same time. Like, again, like why are we doing this and cyanotype Okay,

Matthew Dols 52:19
I love this way, I got a question for you because you play sort of both sides of everything. So you’re a practicing artist, you’re a publisher, you’re a reviewer, all this kind of stuff. Artist statements, what what’s your position on them?

Blue Mitchell 52:33
I think they should be simple. I don’t I have a hard I used to make these really like, you know, fluffy artist statements tonight. And I realized like, nobody, nobody’s really reading it all that much. And if they do, they’re getting bored, because I’m putting a bunch of fluffy words in there to train. So I’m all about just, I like to have a project statement. So if you have a new project, I want to hear a little bit about that project. Just tell me what, what that series is about. But don’t make it like super heavy and try to make yourself sound all like Fufu I’m more like just get to the point. If it is Fufu make it simple. Like I have a tendency just to make my stuff more like, I don’t know, romantic. So a lot of my project statements will be a little bit romantic. In some way. I’m okay with that. If it’s simple and to the point, you know, like I don’t, but these really long artist statements, I just snoozefest nobody cares. If they’re care, they’re gonna they’re gonna, they’re gonna want to read like your bio, and maybe more of a in depth. Maybe listen to an interview with the artist instead of like, I just don’t, I don’t care so much about the understatements, like they never have dictated what I publish, let’s put it that way. You send me an artist statement on your work is never gonna change my mind about whether I’m going to print it or not. So it’s always images first for me.

Matthew Dols 53:59
Well, and that’s sort of what I was leading to sort of like the idea of like, how important because like, to, in my opinion, it’s like, a good photograph can capture my imagination and get me going and all that. And an artist statement in some way should enhance that appreciation. But a lot of times I find that they detract from that appreciation, they like take my like, I can see some images that like move me emotionally and viscerally. And then I read a statement and the statements like highly intellectualized, you know, like to Freud in Latin phrases like mythology, talking about Greek mythology, and I’m like, yeah, it’s not that and you you actually took away what was beautiful about that work, but because of that statement,

Blue Mitchell 54:49
huh? I totally agree. I totally agree. I think the only time that I really find it helpful is if I’m confused about the work if there’s something confusing about it, like I don’t understand the medium that you use, I don’t understand. Or that question before, why are you using this medium? I’ll go to the understatement. Maybe they’re talking about does that medium match up with their intent? You know? So hopefully it answers those questions for me if I go to the statement, if it doesn’t, then I think it’s a fail, you know, I’m saying like, if, if I can’t find the answers in the artist statement about my question, not gonna be able to answer all the questions, but I’m just saying like, there’s, there’s a purpose for what you’ve done here. And don’t don’t try to make it sound cooler than it is like, Can you just simplify and say, This is why I do it. Right? I mean, what’s wrong with pretty pictures, right?

Matthew Dols 55:45
I’m all for pretty pictures. I’m an American, we love pretty pictures. Of course, in Europe, they don’t really love pretty pictures, necessarily, but that’s a whole different podcast. That, okay, one thing that I’ve run into with photographers primarily, which is very different than, like, painters, and sculptors, and all these other mediums that are out there, even print makers, photographers love saying how they made their photographs in their statements, they say, Oh, I shot this on film with a hustle blood, and they use this particular film, and I printed it on this particular paper, and I use this Leo, developer, blah, blah, blah, like, and they even give like f stops and ISOs. And I’m like, nobody fucking cares about that stuff. Like when it comes to like, just looking at a piece of beautiful art on a wall, let’s say you’re in a gallery, or whatever it could be on a website. And I’m interested from your perspective like is how they make it important to you. Sometimes I’ll give you a caveat. Digital versus analog. Sure, that has a little bit of importance. I’d like surface if it was done on film versus digital I’m, that I can understand wanting to be expressed. And if of course, if there are like, in your case, like, you’ll be alternative mediums like some of the technical stuff of that. But do you care what camera they shot it on? What film they shot it on in particular? Or is it just analog versus digital? That’s all they have to state?

Blue Mitchell 57:11
Yeah, I mean, that this is what I tell people. Think about the work going to someone who knows jack shit about photography. So do they care? Do they even know what an F stop is? Do they care about any of your equipment? No, they don’t, they only care about what your intent was. Maybe they care about the location, you shot it out, if it’s if it’s if that’s important to the piece, but mostly, they’re just trying to get a little, just a snapshot of your intent with the work. That’s really it. And to me, it’s like, I don’t, I don’t read any of that other stuff. As far as like, especially when they’re talking about what film they used, or what camera the is like, snooze fest, nobody cares about that. And the people that do, they can find out how you do it. Like maybe your website has a little bit longer biography about what you do, or, you know, I mean, or they can, they can do some research and find out but, you know, like, I just feel like, stuffs not needed. Like especially like, as you’re showing work in a gallery. Most of your gallery patrons aren’t going to know necessarily a lot about photography, there may be a collector, collectors might want to know a little more information about quality, you know, if they’re gonna buy a piece, they might in want to investigate a little more about what you’re doing. But other than that, like your your random viewer, they don’t care. It’s just they want to know if they liked the image or if it’s intriguing to them, is it? Are they standing in front of that thing more than eight seconds? They stand there for more than eight seconds, and they move and look at your artist statement. that’s a that’s a win in my book.

Matthew Dols 58:38
Is that eight seconds? Is that the average time now? I don’t know. I might have made that up. I didn’t know if you do some statistic that I was unaware of.

Blue Mitchell 58:48
I think I think a long time ago, a professor told me something about eight seconds, but

Matthew Dols 58:52
I believe it sounded convincing. So that’s good. I’ve been using it for years so you can steal it. I would have taken it these days with the the attention span of people down to like three seconds.

Blue Mitchell 59:07
Oh, that’s true. Well, online, too. That’d be a whole different ballgame. Oh, yeah. I asked for a scroll by your photo.

Matthew Dols 59:15
Like I was funny. I was looking at Instagram. And now on the stories thing, it tells you whether somebody forwarded or reversed like when they look through your stories they so whether they looked like watch the whole thing for the whole span of time or whether they hit forward. Everybody hits forward I’ve never watched a whole freakin story and it’s such I have a short attention span I guess. So. Okay, back to publishing. I haven’t quest because you earlier you mentioned something about like, the amount of submissions that you get and all this kind of stuff like how many like what’s the what I’m interested actually is like the ratio I guess of like, how many submissions to how many people published.

Blue Mitchell 59:57
I don’t know like the percentage but Like, I would guess, maybe just to space off this last year’s diffusion we had, I would say, we must have published. I think, last, the last one was 70. Sorry, I gotta get my numbers in my head here.

Matthew Dols 1:00:17
No problem.

Blue Mitchell 1:00:18
Like, I don’t actually know the numbers. But I would say, like, maybe this last issue, we published a quarter of what we got.

Matthew Dols 1:00:29
Okay. It’s pretty competitive, really. I mean,

Blue Mitchell 1:00:33
yeah. And that’s like, some people have, you know, six images, and some people only have one. So there’s also, you know, quantity of photos to like some people’s work, there’s a lot more images that work well with what we’re going for. And then sometimes there’s only one from somebody else that fits in with, it’s not to say that any is better than the other, it’s just more like, it just fits in with my vision, or what the theme is, or whatever we’re going for, you know, oftentimes, I’ll be laying stuff out, I’ll be doing the design piece of the as we’re curating because hey, these images talk really well to each other. So we’re going to pick them instead of these, even though I might like this one better. This one works better with these other images. So it’s, it’s kind of a more organic way of curating. It’s not like, Hey, I love this image that’s going in. It’s more like, how did these images talk to the other folks that are in here. And honestly, there’s a ton of work that I get, this is new, and maybe in the last four years, but when I first started, we got a ton of images that I hated, but not not to insult anyone, but there was just a lot of bad work that I got a lot. And nowadays, I’m getting way more really quality photographs that I wish I could put in, but they just don’t fit the vision with where we’re going. Or they’re, or they’re too similar to other stuff that I’ve already chosen. So like if I have, you know, couple images that are done kind of very similarly, I have to decide which one do I feel like fits best in this case? And sometimes people are like, well, how come? This person’s work got in and mine didn’t? Because mine’s like, in the same vein as like, well, it’s just, it’s just random, like, No, it’s just, it’s all about what I liked that day, you know, it’s not even about what I like, in general, it’s like, when I was designing it, this worked best.

Matthew Dols 1:02:28
It is nice that I mean, you’re you’re your own boss. And so you can make your own decisions. And like, you don’t have to answer to anybody. But it is difficult sometimes to deal with the egos of artists that have not been selected. And I say that because I’m also not been selected for as many things as everybody else has not been selected for. So like, Oh,

Blue Mitchell 1:02:47
yeah. Yeah, there’s times I’m like, Oh, I’m definitely gonna get into this one. Like, this is like a shoe and I’m perfect for and then I don’t and I’m like, oh, man, and then I’ll see the work. I’m like, well, we’ll ship my stuff was better than that one. And then it’s like, well, it’s not necessarily about

Matthew Dols 1:03:04
it’s not I mean, the entire industry is so subjective in so many ways, you know, as you as a both a practitioner as well, as a publisher, you see it from both sides, because like, you’re submitting your stuff to other people. And then people are submitting stuff to us or like, you can’t win, it’s totally subjective. And you just hope that you get them on a good day where they just happened to, it looks beautiful on the screen for them. And they’re in a good mood,

Blue Mitchell 1:03:30
right? Oh, yeah. Well, it’s funny, too. Because of the publishing side, for me. There was a moment in time where I was like, Wait, am I getting into these shows just because of my name? Or is it because of the work? So then I was having a lot of like, oh, maybe I should go under an alias as an artist. So nobody connects My name to diffusion or my publishing? And of course, I haven’t done that. But I just think it’d be interesting experiment. Like what I actually get into some of the things that I get into without that connection to what I do, you know,

Matthew Dols 1:04:04
I’ve often wondered, like, if you took some, I saw something recently, some guy that did a thing where like, put up a bunch of photographs of Yosemite and was like, it was like, is this done by ancel atoms are not done by ancel atoms. And they got a lot of them wrong. Like, they thought were done by ancel atoms that be so mean, it’s like, Is it the name? Is that the reputation that sort of, is the reason why these things are done? And sometimes Yes, it’s completely that reason.

Blue Mitchell 1:04:32
Yeah, for sure. Well, luckily, I don’t have a very big name, so I don’t have to worry about it.

Matthew Dols 1:04:38
Your name is out there. Maybe more than mine is, you know, so like you better than me, I guess. Or at least you’re more productive than me, let’s say. Alright. Let’s see. The okay when it comes to submitting, so like as your side of the somebody who received submissions, What are some of like, the technical things that people do wrong? That makes it go like, yeah, I can’t do like, our files too large wrong format, like whether you like what what’s the, what’s the, if you’re outside of whatever you’ve written a, because I’m sure you have instructions, you know, but even within those instructions, what have people done wrong?

Blue Mitchell 1:05:24
I think, well, you mentioned the file sizes are the biggest problem, I think. And usually things are too small, like, Oh, that’s, that’s not gonna print well. And honestly, I used to get back to the artists and say, Hey, you did this wrong, can you resubmit but I get so many submissions. Now, I can’t do that. So basically, no matter how good the work is, it’s not submitted right? It goes into the trash, you know, sadly,

Matthew Dols 1:05:47
but follow the instructions is really what Yeah, I’m

Blue Mitchell 1:05:50
a big I’m a big follow whatever the gallery, the publication, whatever they’re asking for, just follow it to a tee, it’s worth the extra time because oftentimes, if they, they may not get back to you, if it doesn’t qualify what they’ve asked for, then they’re just going to trash it even naming like naming the file correctly. And I have given some free cards for for that, because I think naming JPEGs is like a huge pain in the butt for artists. And I understand that, you know, trying to do it the right way for that for whatever venue you’re submitting to. It’s just it’s a huge pain in the butt. So if I can somehow alleviate that in my because I’ll bring everything into Lightroom and review everything in there. And sometimes things and I look at him, I tried to do like a blind jury. So I don’t look at the names in my room. It’s nice, because I don’t actually see names with with people. Of course, I recognize a lot of work, just because I know these people’s work, but it helps me do more of a blind jury. But if there have Miss named the file, they show they show up in random places in Lightroom not alphabetical because I’ll tell assert it. And then I’m like, okay, that person didn’t follow my instructions. So immediately they get dumps, you know, it’s like, you didn’t do it, right. But if I can make the connections, like, Oh, I think these pieces are all for the same person. I’ll go in and rename them. But if I’m feeling kind of like, grumpy.

Matthew Dols 1:07:12
Again, subjective. Like, ah, you didn’t follow the instructions? I’m sorry. You’re out? Yeah. All right. Any topics that we haven’t touched on that you feel the desire to express something about?

Blue Mitchell 1:07:26
I do have a question for you how long you’ve been doing this podcast,

Matthew Dols 1:07:31
year and a half to a year and a half, little over a year and a half.

Blue Mitchell 1:07:36
So you’ve probably you’ve probably talked about it in previous episodes. But what made you kind of go this route, it’s doing a podcast.

Matthew Dols 1:07:42
I was in the Middle East, I’ve worked in the United Arab Emirates, and I left there, and my wife is Czech, so we decided to move to the Czech Republic. And when we got here, I was sort of expecting like, Oh, I’m, you know, I’m the exotic American artist and a professor, and they’ll love me and I should be able to get a job, no problem teaching at the universities. And they had no interest in me whatsoever. So there are no teaching jobs really available to me here. And, and then I got to Europe. And so I’m in Europe, and I’m going around to galleries, and I’m talking to artists and curators, and all these different people and, and I’m realizing that like the system is different. You know, I grew up in America, I left America when I was 37, I think, and I moved to the Middle East, and then now I’m here in Prague, and I realized that the system is different in Europe, a, but also the system has changed since I was in school 20 some odd years ago, you know, with the social media and the interconnectedness, things that aren’t fair, the rise of art fairs, all these other kinds of things that have really, really changed the industry. And I realized because I had been in my little tower of academia as a professor for many years that I, I was just like, oh, shit, I I’ve lost touch. Like, I don’t understand how it works anymore. And I said, You know, I sort of thought I was like, Well, how do you do? How do you learn how it works? And I realized that the easiest way is just to talk to people. But just talking to people like in one town is not going to tell me anything. It’s just gonna tell me how it works here. That doesn’t, how it works kind of thing. So I decided to do a podcast because I figured if I’m this lost, and I have been trying to understand this stuff, then a lot of other people are lost. And so I decided to just start talking to people and see what knowledge comes. And I have learned, I’ve learned a lot about how I should move forward in my career. And I’ve also learned a lot about the mistakes I have made in my career that I didn’t realize were mistakes until I spoke to people and I’m like, Oh yeah, shit, I made that mistake.

Blue Mitchell 1:09:54
Yeah. Oh, interesting. That’s that’s great because I feel like that’s that’s how you Learn you, basically, you’ve taken something you were interested in, in learning and you’re sharing it at the same time you’re learning it, which is great. I love it.

Matthew Dols 1:10:08
Well, I have this idea like, because you talked about, okay, here, I’ll give you an idea. You can do this, if you want, I don’t care. I have this idea of doing portfolio reviews, virtually, which I know you hate, but virtual, and record them and put them on YouTube for people to sort of watch how the thought pattern of a review goes, you know, it’s not that they will get to see their work reviewed, but they’ll get to see how people converse in a review. Like, before, what are they listening to? What are they experiencing your What’s missing? What’s your whatever. So like, I kept thinking like, that would be a really like, I would probably watch that video of like people getting reviews done, I’m not talking like super long, you know, 15 minutes, whatever kind of thing. But like that idea of like doing an online review, and then showing it on YouTube. But the hard part was, is trying to find people that were willing to be criticized publicly, publicly on YouTube. Like, because it’s very different. Because, you know, portfolio reviews are generally done in close such sessions, you know, the public doesn’t see them. You know, even the portfolio reviews I do online, like nobody sees them except me and the person being reviewed. But I would I, I feel like a lot of the people that I talked to, or engage with, oftentimes need to hear critical that word, like even the dialogue and the vocabulary of like, how to give critical feedback, but also how to receive critical feedback. Hmm, yeah, that’s a little bit of an art form that I think we’re losing these days.

Blue Mitchell 1:11:54
I would totally agree. But also to like I’ve noticed being, you know, with other reviewers, everybody’s perspective is so so different to so if you had a, you know, if you did a series of these where people can see like, Oh, this person is more interested in how are you presenting yourself? Like, what is your website look like? How are you getting your marketing materials, and the other people are more interested in like, oh, the technique that you use to get to that print? And then and then some people are just like, oh, okay, let’s just critique your composition. And, you know, I mean, like, so there’s so many perspectives on on that stuff. And also, it’s self serving the reviewers like, Hey, I work in a museum. So my, my interest is gonna be way different than blue, the publisher, you know, I mean, so,

Matthew Dols 1:12:36
okay, there, we can elevate this. So not only would it be a review of a single person, but they would get reviewed by let’s say, like three people from different aspects, like one person who cares about marketing and publicity, one who cares about institutional stuff. And then like an art collector, like so like, three different perspectives on a review of one set of work they do independently, and then you put them together as one YouTube video. So you can see one set of artwork being reviewed by three different people. No, sounds brilliant. I love it. You’re the videographer, man, you do this stuff. Well, I’ll call you if we decide to do it. I’m game I will participate as long as like, the face doesn’t have to be on it. Like I, you know, I’ve got a face for radio. So like, my voice is great. I love talking. But like I don’t need to be seen. I also make weird, really weird facial expressions and hand gestures and people don’t need to see that. That’s great. Okay, any last bit of advice you might be able to give out to people that are interested in being creative, being artists, be photographers possibly be wanting to get into the publishing industry, like anything that you do that you have some advice that maybe you’ve never given out before? Possibly, like a negative thing, like, stay away from something? You know, I

Blue Mitchell 1:14:06
think, I think in general, I think, for me, and this is gonna sound a little cliche, but I think just being genuine to yourself, you know, like, Are you are you being genuine to you? when you’re when you’re pursuing things, you know, and, and honestly, I’ve met a lot of great people in the photo world, but I’ve also met some people that are abrasive. So my, my thing is, like, Just don’t be an asshole to people and you’ll be fine. Stop being an asshole and everything will work out great for you.

Matthew Dols 1:14:38
I know. I used to be that asshole. And so that’s why like I again, remember I talked about like things I learned that I did wrong in my career. I used to be that asshole and I’m trying to may a culpa and make amends to that. By not aging into wisdom of not being as much of an asshole. I love it. It’s great. Well, at least evil learned. I try. It’s a daily struggle, but you got to work on it. Yeah. All right. Well, thank you very much for your time. Yeah. Thank you, man.