Transcript for Episode 137 – Paint Maker, Stacey Dodd, Stakiwi Colours (Wellsford, New Zealand)

Recorded on December 8, 2020
Published January 12, 2021

Full recording here: https://wisefoolpod.com/paint-maker-stacey-dodd-stakiwi-colours-wellsford-new-zealand/

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Matthew Dols 0:12
Could you please pronounce your name correctly for me? Stacy dot and you run stick Kiwi How do you pronounce it? So it’s

Stacey Dodd 0:20
pronounced stay Kiwi because my name is stay See, stay Kiwi the national native bird of New Zealand stay Kiwi.

Matthew Dols 0:32
And as we can tell by your accent you are New Zealand? Yes. New Zealand. Okay, so you are a paint maker, but specifically use you do watercolor paint correct? Correct. Okay, my first question is why watercolor paint? Why not acrylic paint or oil paints or any other kind of paints,

Stacey Dodd 0:53
from experience I found watercolor paint is really, it’s actually really hot right now. But besides that, it’s great for the sort of society that we’re in right now. So oil takes quite a long time to dry. acrylic and

Matthew Dols 1:11
it’s toxic.

Stacey Dodd 1:15
And acrylic it you have to work fast. Because the layers because that’s where I started out, I started painting with acrylics. And then I had to play around with watercolors and I found watercolors were really good because you can, you can just do it whenever you need to do it. And you know, just do your layers as you go and come back to it. You don’t have to work too fast and depending on the project you’re working on. So I found that watercolors were really good for me. And I thought as well, it works really well. For the type of society we’re in. We’re very busy people. So you know, you want to be able to have a type of tool that you can use when you want to use it. So it gives you that control I guess, if that makes sense. So that’s why watercolors, and I guess as well I just fell down the rabbit hole on Instagram. There’s this whole world of watercolor artists and litters and calligraphers people use watercolors on clay and wood and all sorts and yeah, I fell down the rabbit hole. So I started off playing with watercolors to begin with before I started making them.

Matthew Dols 2:27
Alright, but when was this beginning? So when did you start making your own? And then of course, then when did you turn it into a business?

Stacey Dodd 2:34
So I started two years ago. And what happened was, I started off with student grade watercolors. And I found that I was spending too much time mixing convenience colors, and I just, I just didn’t have that time. So I found myself looking for specific shades, which not manufactured Greenstone hair, especially in student grade. And so artists grade branded watercolors are more expensive. And my other problem was that being in New Zealand, there isn’t much to choose from. At that stage. There was no handmade watercolors in New Zealand. And I don’t even think we even had Daniel Smith watercolors at that stage. That’s, you know, going back a couple of years. So I started off student grade and then I I came into this watercolor community online, and I was exposed to these shimmer watercolors. And then I couldn’t access them in New Zealand was my first problem. And I found that you could get them handmade because most manufactured brands don’t make shimmer watercolors.

Matthew Dols 3:45
What a weird Hold on a second. Why were you not able to access it New Zealand. I couldn’t find anyone that was selling watercolors that was shimmers at that stage. This is coupling it so it’s not like it’s not like there was a ban on importing them. It’s just that just simply no retailer.

Stacey Dodd 4:03
retailer, I think we’ve got two retailers in New Zealand and they don’t stop all the brands either. And so I found myself looking for handmade. And I found handmade. And they were more expensive. They were more expensive not just for the product, but the shipping.

Matthew Dols 4:22
And I did order some I know it always comes down to shipping. I have to be honest with you. Zealand I mean everything has to be shipped so I never imagined like like probably like what 15 20% of your all your online shipping is just just the cost of shipping.

Stacey Dodd 4:40
Yep, or more than the actual product itself. So you start anyway, I got I ordered some and I think it took about two months for them to come. And in that time. I got not frustrated but I was so curious and I just had to the learner in me I had to know how this can be. So I just started watching videos. And I found out that it’s possible to do it with very few ingredients. So that’s where I started. I started making them while I was waiting for mine to arrive. And I got hooked immediately, I just enjoyed the fact that I was making something that that I could use in my own art. And I just found it so rewarding. And so by the time the paints did arrive, and I enjoyed them, I was already looking at working with mechs by then. So I think I started to move into met pigments,

matte pigment being like non shown. Yeah, yeah. So so we divide it between shimmer or matte. And so I started dabbling in sort of neon pigments to begin with, because I was really keen to get into to neon pigments. And at that time, there weren’t many to choose from either. I think what happened was it with handmade as well, there weren’t many available when I wanted to find them. So it’s not to say that they can’t be made. It’s just when I want winter to winter look for them. They weren’t available. So I thought, well, I’ll make my own. And then I ended up with surplus. What do I do with all this extra paint that I’ve made? Oh, oh, maybe someone might want it, maybe they might pay a few dollars? Okay, well, maybe I’ll just put myself on Etsy and see if anyone would like some handmade paint from New Zealand. That’s how it started two years ago. And it just slowly took off. And I think what really helped was networking in the community and getting to know other artists, setting myself up with brand ambassadors, also really helped collaborating with other artists and curating sits together. It’s a big thing that I do. And it’s just growing in two years. And then I think about half a year later, I launched my own website moved off Etsy, this decision ever, because that I have so much control. And there are so many opportunities, having your own website, what you can do establishing your own community. And yeah, two years later, here, I am talking to you. I teach website designs or like I’m all for having your own website as much as those platforms Etsy and all that they are great. And I do like them, and I even shop on them. But yeah, from from the retailing, and like it is really nice to have your own website.

Yeah. I wanted to be able to have like a forum where people can chat, and blog as well, because I love to blog. And so it just seemed natural for me to set up a blog as well so that people can read about what I do or how I do it. Have people guest blog on there as well learn different techniques. So it just yeah, it was a great decision for me. So I’m really happy that I did.

Matthew Dols 8:07
Great. And you and you talked about social media and brand ambassadors. So like, I’m sure everybody chooses one sort of social media that they use the most. So what yours is Instagram? Yes. Instagram. Yeah, yeah.

Stacey Dodd 8:21
Yeah. Out community on the air is just flourishing. Facebook, not so much.

Matthew Dols 8:28
I like Facebook for Facebook events, like the calendar system, I think is really quite nice and easy to integrate into, like my own phone and things like that. But other than that, yeah, and birthdays, they’re very good with telling me about birthdays. Okay, so you talked about, like making having your own pigments and creating your own color. So do you Okay, so bear in mind, my little bit of stupidity. I have a little bit knowledge, a little bit of stupidity. So bear with it. Do you make or, I don’t know harvest your own pigments? Or do you buy from a retailer and then sort of and then mix it together and your own unique concoction? Both?

Stacey Dodd 9:12
I’m starting to move into forging my own pigments. And before that, yeah, so that’s something that I’m setting myself up for moving into working with natural Earths, especially, you know, in New Zealand, and also, you know, exploring different gemstones as well. So I’m just beginning that journey. For me. It’s a time factor. So trying to balance making beautiful colors with really made pigments and producing and liver gating and all of the process that goes into to getting a good quality pigment that you’re fired.

Matthew Dols 9:52
I’m sorry, did you say levitating? So I’m good sound. words together. Is that really a single word? Yeah. So I’m levitating. And

Stacey Dodd 10:11
I’m looking at it now. Live or not live a tating. lever, gazing, engaging, because I’m still waiting on my literature to arrive at someone, some someone recommended to me. But yeah, so litigating the technical terminology is reducing the substance to a fine powder of smooth paste. So with litigating that,

Matthew Dols 10:34
Oh, I know what you’re talking about. Yeah. Okay, like sort of a mortar and pestle style, except on a flat surface with a cold piece of glass sort of handle that smooths it out and crushes it down. Yeah, I know.

Stacey Dodd 10:47
Yeah. And so I guess with the process of forging your own pigment, you want to make sure that the pigment that you’re working with, you’re separating all the gunk from the good stuff. So working with a really fine mesh serve, and that sort of thing. So that’s, that’s where I’m starting out that way, I can ensure that the product that that I would perhaps present is good quality, and consistent. Yeah, that’s right. So because from what I’ve heard, if you don’t do it correctly, you can end up with very gritty pain that you might not actually be able to get to a very fine substance. And then if you’re trying to use that an application with painting, then you’re going to end up with particles that are still not broken down. So yeah, so I want to make sure that I do it correctly.

Matthew Dols 11:37
If that makes sense. My father actually does icon writing using wash and watercolor paints. And he actually did his own leather gating for many years and to ground his own pigment. And it just, it is so time consuming, and says Yes,

Stacey Dodd 11:51
yeah, and that’s, that’s probably my main thing, because I’m such a busy person. And sometimes of the way my lifestyle is, things can change very suddenly, and I just have to drop everything. And, and then focus on family

Matthew Dols 12:09
is that husband or child that you have to drop everything for.

Stacey Dodd 12:13
So my husband and I own a supermarket together as one thing. So that is time consuming. The other thing is my son has severe special needs. So if something’s not right with Him, I have to kind of drop everything to basically do

Matthew Dols 12:35
mid level gating to drop everything.

Stacey Dodd 12:38
Exactly. And also the fact that he has sensory issues. So it took him a long time to even just get used to hearing me in the background modeling. And now he’s fine with it. Which is good, but I don’t I haven’t gotten into like banging rocks and

Matthew Dols 12:56
noise cancelling headphones might be helpful.

Stacey Dodd 12:59
No, unfortunately, not for him because he he is like a seven year old newborn. So you can’t put headphones on him? Because he doesn’t have forehead control. Yeah, so that’s why it’s so tricky. So my dream is that one day, I’ll have my own studio.

Matthew Dols 13:17
Just what you do is you go to the local university and you find some art students that would like to intern with you and make them do all the grunt work. Like

Stacey Dodd 13:25
it would be so handy if I wasn’t living rural. I’m in the tiny little town to about 2000 people. It’s like a it’s like a we’re off the main state highway. There’s one street. We don’t even have traffic lights. We have one roundabout. It’s a small town. So yeah, it’s pretty nice.

Matthew Dols 13:50
Are you are you there by choice? Or do you want me to get some help for you? Do you need to get out?

Stacey Dodd 13:55
We the by choice. It’s lovely. Because it’s such a it’s like Cheers. Everyone knows your name,

Matthew Dols 14:01
that it’s a mixed blessing.

Stacey Dodd 14:02
It is indeed Yeah. So it’s great because there’s that sense of community there. It just means that I am limited with resources. So I do have to order a lot in, in my situation. But yeah, that’s where our supermarket is based.

Matthew Dols 14:18
Okay, but you’ve already got the infrastructure for three of the supermarket to be able to do customs and shipping and all that kind of stuff. So it actually kind of makes sense. Yeah, yeah. So it’s not too bad. Okay. All right. Well, so along the lines of the pigments stuff, so I’ve always been fascinated like, why is certain paints made with certain things like me, I’ll take crazy ones like titanium whites and the cadmium reds and all these kinds of things. Like why are they made with those particular things? Why are they not made with something else? Like why can’t a red be made from I don’t know some other thing that why is it cadmium? Why is it titanium? I mean, these, you know, theoretically these dangerous chemicals. Yeah, but why are there other ways You can do it, can you like just grind up, I don’t know, tree bark or grass and make colors like, you know, does it have to be sort of pure chemicals.

Stacey Dodd 15:09
Some of them do have to be synthetic to get the application and lightfastness qualities, some of those particular pigments have special qualities. With caribbeans, I do work with them, they are toxic, but from what I’ve read the toxicity, by the time you’ve had it marry up and being mold, it’s very, very, very, very, like, you would have to consume a lot for it to even have an impact. But what what I always emphasize is that if you’re working with the loose powder, you must not go without a mask, you should be wearing a mask at all times, even if you’re working with natural substances, but specifically the toxic pigments, especially if you’re going to start working with copper acetates, like verta Gree, or blue that verter. You know, you’re going to start moving into even more toxic pigments, gloves, protective eyewear, definitely. But with those particular pigments, they have qualities that are very unique. And and not just in terms of how you work with them and how they behave, but how they behave once they’re cured and applied, you know whether they have a certain opacity or transparency with application, whether they granulate, or whether they’re like a smooth finish. So most cadmium is have a lovely, beautiful, slight opaque, smooth finish. And I guess campaigns as well, they’re very vibrant. So that’s why they are also quite good. So I quite like them. For that reason. Titanium White is the best white pigment in terms of lightfastness sand quite as no good. And so for that reason, Titanium White is a very good pigment to work with. Yeah, and I work with it a lot. It’s great for making your go wash paints as well, because it’s got that chalky nature to it. So you can just, you know, add that and just a bowl cup of pigment, or you know, if you want to make a pastel, then you will have a slight color wash tendency in the paint as well, which people love.

Matthew Dols 17:18
Okay, how do you choose which pigments to work with? So they literally like the whole world is your oyster. So how do you go, Oh, you know what, I should use that color instead of this other 100 colors for me and is I want them all just sort of my point. Every color

Stacey Dodd 17:39
you can and it’s it’s just it’s really bad. Because now I want them all. I mean, I was looking on the Kramer website, and there’s a meteorite pigment you can get. It’s crazy. Or dragon’s blood, which is more of a reason dye. But you know, there’s that curiosity, what all this pigment because the pigment doesn’t actually look like in powder form, it doesn’t look the same once it’s been mailed, as well. So it’s for me, it’s it’s curiosity. And some of the time it is whether or not someone has actually requested that specific color. So someone might say, oh, Stacy, you know, I need an orange. So I’ll look at all the different oranges and, and then I might try them all and see which one’s the best in terms of adding that into the collection. So yeah, it’s crazy, you can end up with so many different reds, blues, greens, yellows,

Matthew Dols 18:36
right? But I mean, what I’m what I’m sort of getting to with this is like, as a business person, you kind of have to say like, okay, I can only offer five blues, let’s say like, you’re like, I can’t have 100 different blues in my inventory, with the hope that somebody is going to want all these subtle variations. So have you found sort of the right amount of, let’s say, a color like blue or a red or a green? That’s the right amount that you as a business person to be able to keep your inventory versus sales sort of balanced? Well that like, is it Have you ever made maybe made too many and then sort of been stuck with some or have you sort of found that balance really well.

Stacey Dodd 19:19
I am in a position right now where I am having to discontinue some. So I found that I’m reevaluating the range watch is vital that I haven’t got an I’m adding those in and then I’m removing some that are not really that vital, or perhaps maybe they were particularly difficult to make. So it’s a time factor. Or maybe they’re too similar to another shade. So I’m going with the more the better quality one. So at this stage I’m I I’m sort of adding a new colors like that I didn’t even have which I’m so embarrassed. About like Burnt Sienna in raw sienna. I’ve worked with them. But I just so

Matthew Dols 20:05
basic, I should have them. But what, Chris as well come on these fundamentals I’ve

Stacey Dodd 20:12
got, I’ve got some, but what’s happened is, the way I’ve sort of done things is I’ve done a lot of curated sets. And so what I’m doing is I’m doing all these thematic sets. So some of those colors just haven’t naturally jumped on board. So what I’ll be doing is doing earthy colors and bringing in all the, the basics, basically. And I’m still working on releasing a new set of moody colors, because what I often have been doing that is unique to stay key with colors is the curated sets, but also a lot of Moody, separating colors. And those are really exciting at the moment, Daniel Smith do a few. And I think shemekia have just released some a couple of months ago as well, they’ve jumped on board. So I’ve been doing that for the last year and a bit is making these colors that have the separating qualities that people really like, instead of going down the bird SR and raw sienna pathway.

Matthew Dols 21:13
to a certain point like I in my mind, of course, you know, I’m just a stupid creative person, whatever the I was, would think that as being in New Zealand that you would be have the ability to have this amazing niche of colors that are sort of only available from whatever minerals or whatever are just in that region. Like you could be a massive like incredibly boutique, a niche thing, if you can try and build out a mineral gemstone, whatever that are only available in that region. Like that’s right be amazing.

Stacey Dodd 21:48
Definitely. So that’s, that’s where I’m going as well. I’ve just got all these ideas in my head like, bubbling around because I I also balance supporting people with making their own watercolors as well. And making my own and a wait. Okay, wait, take

Matthew Dols 22:07
that back a step custom water colors. How does that even work? Like? Because if I okay, like the my issue with this is that the internet, okay? Because like if you’re in New Zealand, and I’m, let’s say, in Europe, or America or wherever, and I say, Oh, I need a custom color, could you do it like this, like, if you were to send me that picture over the internet, the color is gonna come out differently on my screen. So like how you get that color balance correct when you’re doing custom work.

Stacey Dodd 22:34
So I try and send them the dots adopt sample, so that they can sample them. So that’s why having branded businesses is really good as well, because when I’m working with new colors, I will send them some dot samples to give me some feedback. So that you know, they can tell me what they think about the colors. And it is tricky though, because you do sort of have to rely on the technology to send through the pictures. So it’s about getting the best photos taken in different ways. And so that they can see what they look like, as best as possible. But also trying to see if we can get some tested as well so I can get some feedback about them.

Matthew Dols 23:16
Okay, now, what’s this process of let’s say, let’s say I’m a water colorist, I’m sitting around, I’m like, God, I really want a, I don’t know, orange, because you brought up orange already. So I really want to George, how does the process of me go from me being watercolor sitting in my home doing my thing? Go to call contacting you? And then like, what’s the process of actually creating something that matches my needs as a consumer?

Stacey Dodd 23:42
Oh, usually, I can be contacted through Instagram or on the website, like how you contacted me. And that would just lead to a conversation about what it is that they’re looking for. And if if it is possible for me to do that, then then I say, Okay, let’s do it. And from there, I would it would depend if they’re looking for a specific some people have been real specific about certain pigments, I want this specific one. You know,

Matthew Dols 24:12
that’s what I was about to ask. So what would be a criteria that you wouldn’t be able to do?

Stacey Dodd 24:17
I have seen to some people I haven’t been able to do say rose Mehta because it’s a very expensive pigment. But so in that situation, I’ve tried to mix close approximate shade. And so that’s the best I could do. Otherwise, I’ll just say sorry, I can’t get I can’t surplus that pigment or I don’t have that pigment in stock at the stage. So that’s pretty much how it is. I mean, I’ve got hundreds of pigments, but it might just be that one payment that I might not have.

Matthew Dols 24:48
As it always

Stacey Dodd 24:50
is it always says Oh, it’s so just say look, I’ve got all those ones, but I don’t have that one. And it’s a very expensive pigment to source and I’m just not in a position To go there yet? Yeah. Although, you know, it’s a challenge. I feel like, oh, gosh, should I get it? It’s a hard one.

Matthew Dols 25:09
Well, as a business owner, it’s always hard to like, what should you have in stock with with the sort of preconceived idea that you believe people might want this in the future.

Stacey Dodd 25:19
And so that’s the thing, you know, there are a couple of pigments that I have got, and just smaller amounts, and then just making sure that they know upfront how much it might cost to purchase that pigment, or maybe just offering it in smaller sizes. There’s another option as well. So if you know not a half pen, but a quarter pen, or adopt card, and then that way, if they really, really like that color, and they want to pay more, then I can source that pigment and then go from there, because there are a few that I have got, but I’ve only really released them as smaller sizes so that some people can actually try them first, and see if they like them. Yeah.

Matthew Dols 26:00
And I’ve noticed also on your website, you have some I call them unique names for some of your colors. Yes. So why, why and how do you come up with your colored names? Well, I’d like to know which ones caught your attention. Well, I’m currently looking at Peck poop poop Kiko I so pen. Okay, cool. And, and we’ll hold on wait and duck blue, dark blue. magic carpet. Okay, so though that’s not a color. Those are not Pantone approved colors. Correct? You are 100%. Right. So let’s start off magic carpet, shall we? So that one was a recent custom color and bald mushrooms.

Stacey Dodd 26:48
It did not involve mushrooms, but it involved in Latin, right? Because the color itself reminded them of the magic carpet from Aladdin. So she said to me, Stacy wouldn’t be cool. If we had a purple that had a gold shimmer to it. I was like, Okay, let’s do it. And then she said, You know, it reminds me of the magic carpet from Aladdin. So magic carpet. Dark blue was another custom color. And that one was actually a gift that someone curated for someone who liked ducks. And she just said she, she just called it duck blue

Matthew Dols 27:21
is this is this like, like climb blue like that you’re you’re basically naming them after the people that are designing them.

Stacey Dodd 27:28
So yeah, they’re basically directing me, it’s great. And it makes it exciting. It’s it’s a process that you go through, you’re establishing a relationship with one another. So it has a story to it. Some colors like don’t see, you know, I will release they’ll just be called boon sienna. But there are some colors. Yeah, there are some colors that I have five, three pigments, I can’t call them all the pigments. So instead, in those situations, I will either name it, or the person curating the set will have a theme, and then they’ll name it. So what was the third one you mentioned was pooky called Blue. So that was also named, it was a competition giveaway. And I put out the three colors. And then I just asked everyone to tell me what they thought in terms of naming those three colors and the set and a New Zealander came forward and named the three colors for uchiko Blue kitarou turquoise, and the third one was quarterly green, named after three native New Zealand birds and the specific shimmery colors that those birds have that correlated with the shimmer watercolors, because we’re shimmer watercolors, they don’t come with names. So you do have to think up a name for them, like the dark blue. That was a shimmer as well. So that’s when you do have to think up names. I mean, I could just say, shimmer blow, but then I’ve got different shimmer blows, or shimmer, dark blue. So that’s boring.

Matthew Dols 29:00
Quite honestly. Yeah.

Stacey Dodd 29:02
So I yeah, I like for them to have autonomy, and their custom as well in terms of naming. And if they’re stuck, I can give them a few ideas if they like. But generally, they usually come up with their own idea, which is really neat, because how about that being able to name a water color and, and people are now purchasing it. This is so special.

Matthew Dols 29:22
Okay, what I come from a commercial background or you know, web design, this kind of stuff, photography, all this jazz. So like Pantone and coming up with consistency of colors, and especially in like branding and this kind of stuff in the commercial arts. So like, when it comes to pains, are there standardized things that you sort of try to match that are industry wide, or is that a concern for you at all?

Stacey Dodd 29:48
So say for example, burnt sienna. So I’ll just keep it as it is, in the end. Just make sure people know what pigments I’ve used. So I’m at the front about communicating what pigments are used in the process? so people know what they’re getting. So especially if you know if it’s a mixed pigment, so people know, these are the pigments that have been used, especially if people mostly want to know, are they toxic pigments? Or are they vegan? People want to know, have I used honey in the prostate? Yeah, those are the the main concerns that people tend to want to know. Yeah. Does that answer your question?

Matthew Dols 30:26
Sort of. But along that line, yeah. Yeah. So you mentioned honey, and I actually had another Ruby mountain. Yeah, yeah. paints was on the podcast as well. So what is the concoction that you ended up sort of coming to as your binding material and all this other kind of stuff? So I use a ripe or is it proprietary? Do you not want to say no, it’s on my website. I’ve got the recipe there. Don’t give away too much, or people won’t need to buy from you.

Stacey Dodd 30:56
I don’t mind they still buy? Because Mike, some of my colors are really unique. And that’s, that’s the thing, I guess, because I don’t do those sorts of things. Because it’s really hard to replicate certain of that, especially those separating colors, because you have to work with specific pigments to get those qualities. So though, you know, that’s where it stops, you know, the recipes for the actual colors. So with my binder recipe, I use World Water, gamma ray Beck powder and clove oil for preservative and glycerin for softening quantities. No, honey,

Matthew Dols 31:33
what does that make a difference? I like honey, why do people not want to use honey?

Stacey Dodd 31:38
Basically, I don’t like working with it. I found that I was able to make them without using honey. I’m not the only watercolor maker that doesn’t use honey as well. I also think that the honey influences the way the behavior of the pigments. It could be something to do with amino acids and the honey. I don’t know. But because I’m able to use and make paints without honey just goes to show you don’t need it. It’s just a preference. Some people use corn syrup is a alternative. But I have found that I think I did trawl in the beginning. It just the paints are much stickier they take longer to sit. And so I just tried it without honey and edit in the cluster and to give it a softness and works fine. Without honey.

Matthew Dols 32:35
Lovely. I’m not judging. Yeah.

Stacey Dodd 32:38
I’m thinking of the followers that might be listening that do use paints that have honey in them. And what I’m saying is it’s a personal preference, and there’s no right or wrong.

Matthew Dols 32:48
It doesn’t have anything to do with like the vegan non vegan

Stacey Dodd 32:52
in his Yeah, so vegans don’t want to use paint that have honey in them.

Matthew Dols 32:57
And confused maybe I don’t understand what a vegan is. But they don’t like honey.

Stacey Dodd 33:01
They don’t want to use the product that’s got animal byproduct in it. So that’s what it comes down to. And there are some makers that use Oq scale as well. So they don’t want product that has that in it as well. So

Matthew Dols 33:13
I’m sorry, weight. ox. What? oX goal maybe

Stacey Dodd 33:18
Oxbow or gal ga? Yeah, I’m looking out for you. Because while the I’m in front of you like googling things, so you can use it. It’s obtained from cows and mixed with alcohol use as a wetting agent.

Matthew Dols 33:35
Okay, obtained from what part of a cow or goal g a l goal is that? He said? Oh, girl, I don’t know. Oh, like the gall bladder? Yeah. Okay, my excellent, sorry. No, it’s okay. It has nothing to do with your accent. It was just my final Association, but call. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Stacey Dodd 33:56
So that is an animal byproduct as well. That is sometimes you obviously, yeah, for that reason. That’s what they want to know. And so I just basically say, I don’t use that. And that was fine. And it’s personal choice. I have got lots of handmade paints from lots of other makers and their honey paints are lovely. And so it’s nice to try different paints from different makers. What I have found the main differences is that they have stuck here. And sometimes if it’s particularly humid, which you can get in New Zealand, they can actually get very sticky in sometimes mount. So it is all about getting that balance with the honey in your binder recipe just right in it was too much pressure for me. It’s just easier not use it. And I won’t go worries they reworked fine, which is the most important thing.

Matthew Dols 34:55
Something that actually I forgot to ask you about which is sort of how did you even get to Like being a water colorist and a painter and all this. So like, what’s your background? What? Your parents creative or like, were you even? Where were you even born and raised for that

Stacey Dodd 35:08
matter? I I’m born in New Zealand, and I’ve mostly lived in it. So I’m in the North Island, closer to the top of the I won’t use my hands. So closer to the top of the peninsula.

Matthew Dols 35:19
Right. So you’re near the top of the bottom. Got it? Yeah,

Stacey Dodd 35:22
so in the North Island, and so it’s much warmer up there for one. So my grandfather, and my pop, so both my parents father’s oil painters. My mother also painted before will. So there was lots of artists in the family. So naturally, I drew a lot when I was younger, and my background as well is I’m a qualified primary primary school teacher. So before I had my son, I was teaching and I would naturally do a lot of that with the children. That’s what I did. And so when I stopped teaching, and then as a mom, that was my outlet was at, and then moving into acrylic, and then into watercolors. So yeah, I guess I’ve always drawn in some way, I guess. Yeah. So I love that. And been around artists and yeah, just a natural in a way. Yeah.

Matthew Dols 36:23
Okay, any I’m not a dysmenorrhea. But at any formal education.

Stacey Dodd 36:28
And no, I took out history, your papers at university. So did do papers in art history, at school, at high school and at university. So I have had an interest in art. But I found art in high school, frustrating because you put in a box and told what to do? No. And, you know, teaching to the test, basically. So you’re you’re basically learning what you need to learn so that you can you know, pass the grade? And I don’t know, I don’t believe that that’s the way to do it.

Matthew Dols 37:02
And, you know, I’m a professor, by the way, right.

Stacey Dodd 37:07
But at university, I found you have more autonomy with what you do at university, I found I had more autonomy at university when I was learning and as opposed to high school,

Matthew Dols 37:18
very difficult if it’s a good professor, if it’s a good, I’ve seen lots of bad professors at university as well. So like, if it’s a good professor in the university setting? Absolutely. I

Stacey Dodd 37:27
agree. Absolutely. Yeah. And that’s what I think it comes down to is, is the right, the right teacher that encourages you to go with your vocation.

Matthew Dols 37:36
I also had excellent teachers in high school, I don’t dissuade any great high school teachers

Stacey Dodd 37:42
say no, to this. Well, I have a fabulous English teacher who encouraged me in my poetry. And so I think I spent a lot of years in high school focusing on poetry, and moved away from visual art and went into creative writing. And so that’s sort of where I went just because of his his influence. Yeah. So that was quite neat. But you’re right, it really does come down to the right, the right teacher who can tap into that talent, and bring it out. That’s what I think is so magical about teachers, actually, that they can do that. Yeah.

Matthew Dols 38:19
Well, the good ones can Yeah, absolutely. I mark because of course, I’m also very heavily criticized by both my peers and my students as being not that good in that in certain ways. And every teacher has there. Every teacher connects with certain students better than others. You know, that it no parent, no teacher is going to connect 100% with all their students. There’s

Stacey Dodd 38:49
That’s right. It’s just not going to happen with them all. And that’s the hardest thing as a teacher, actually, I found, you know, that you might not be able to tap into every single student, or you might spend a whole year and then you get through what I found,

Matthew Dols 39:06
the painful ones, for me, are the most creative, most talented students that somehow you can’t connect with. It’s like you, you have everything to be able to be successful, and I cannot get through to you for some reason. Yeah, it’s the one that those are the ones that keep me up at night.

Stacey Dodd 39:22
Yeah. And in the end, that they’re the ones that you actually end up having a deeper relationship with, once you connect with them, if you connect with if you can eat with them. Exactly. For me, you know, I’m working with six and seven year olds. I’m on the other spectrum.

Matthew Dols 39:42
yeah, not a lot of connecting going on there. It’s more like just like don’t eat the crayon kind of thing.

Stacey Dodd 39:48
Yeah, I often had a lot of the anxious children in my class. So often, it was making sure that they felt safe, and that they felt that they were valued, so that they could Coming out of these shells. So those were the sort of the unique students that I ended up working with, which was pretty neat. I

Matthew Dols 40:06
wonder if that’s why I was putting art classes as a kid. Was I one of those unique kids like that?

Stacey Dodd 40:11
Probably

Matthew Dols 40:13
Probably. Yeah. Interesting. hindsight is 2020 on these things. Right. Moving forward. One question I always wonder about, since you are the sort of, you know, I’m going to be really formal here, like you’re the manufacturer of a product. So they probably have some recommendations on sort of how to use the product. So I’m always interested, when it comes to, let’s say, watercolors, papers, brushes, what do you recommend? What do you like? What do you dislike? You know, these are the things that people want to know, like,

Stacey Dodd 40:50
you know, if you’re a beginner watercolor watercolorist, you if you want to work with an artist grade page, you want to do it, its justice, by working with artist grade paper, and paint brushes, but it’s really hard because you only know what you know. And all the websites will tell you, whatever. So the best thing that I can do is actually try and share that visually on Instagram, as well as talk about it. So they can actually see how the brush works, how the paper behaves, with the paint on the paper, and that you can get these amazing qualities from your paints with the right tools. So I usually tag in the wall, I try to tag which tools I have used. So whether it’s a quill brush from Raphael, or whether it’s a round brush size to or if I’m using like watercolor, Legion, paper or cold press, generally I work with cold press in which brand it is people want to know. So I’m happy to share that because I think that those paints should be used with the right company tools to get those beautiful effects.

Matthew Dols 42:01
Well, like I’m all about sort of the scientific investigation of like, the interplay between materials. So you know, like, so like, for me as let’s say, I were to start watercolors, which don’t get me wrong, I’m, I have no hand dexterity, I will not be doing that. But anyways, I would want to see like a side by side comparison of like, this is the exact same brush exact same color, put on to these five different papers and reacts differently. Yeah, for papers, side by side. Yeah, because it’s from what I know about it, because I’ve done printmaking, and things like this, like, I know a little bit about this, but it’s gonna be different. Like, like, it’s not, you know, you put five different brands of paper or five different surfaces of even the same brand, and how the they interact is going to be rather radically different, or else why make all these things?

Stacey Dodd 42:58
That’s right. And there’s some amazing accounts that do that as well. So I think I’ve actually put one of those accounts on my resources page, to go to direct her recommendations on tools, because she actually specifically tests papers all the time, and bread brushes and paints. And so I’m quite happy to share that so that people know and then, as well as that guest bloggers on to share their techniques, brushes.

Matthew Dols 43:27
Wait, one second, hold on, somebody is paid to just test out different materials. Like that’s a job. No, I

Stacey Dodd 43:33
don’t think I get paid. They just do it themselves. But some people do their brand ambassadors for say, can’t say the name of the brand. How that starts with an H here. That’s uncommon. Mu Yeah. So yeah, amazing paper. And so the a couple of my brand ambassadors, brand ambassadors for them, as well. So they get sent papers to test them out, which I think is really awesome, you know, to get that feedback and share that with other people to see what qualities can exist on different papers. And same goes for brushes as well, in terms of which brushes to use that that you can get different effects out of them. Especially when you’ve got say, for example, watercolor artists and watercolor leaders. You know, they’re the leaders want to know that the type of brushes that you can use that give you the perfect control with the brush, the pointed, round brush that snaps back to a beautiful Yeah, okay,

Matthew Dols 44:34
I’m gonna ask a really stupid question. What watercolor could that be used in a calligraphy pen?

Stacey Dodd 44:41
Yes. Okay, so you’ve also got calligraphy tests that use matte or shimmer, watercolor paints, and it’s tricky. I hear but it’s doable. So and it looks beautiful.

Matthew Dols 44:55
Really beautiful. calligraphy always looks beautiful.

Stacey Dodd 44:58
Yeah. And so it’s it’s really quite amazing that you can, you know, there, within this art community, there’s so much talent there, and to see your paints that you’ve made in different variations expressions is really so rewarding. And so it’s quite amazing. Actually, when you think about it, I haven’t tried calligraphy. I’d love to.

Matthew Dols 45:26
My father does calligraphy and so I was suddenly like, wait a minute, can I get him some colors for his pens? That’d be beautiful. But anyways. Yes. You You mentioned number of times, though, like this building of this community. Now, this is a you know, whether you’re a manufacturer of an art of a product in the arts world, or whether you’re an artist, one of the biggest things is to build a community around whatever you do. So what techniques are what how have you built your community? Heck of a lot of being online networking? The one thing none of us want to be doing?

Stacey Dodd 46:03
Yeah, in the very beginning, it was like constant. And it was unhealthy. I’ll be honest with you, it was not good. But it certainly helped. Because it’s about having a presence. It’s about having an authentic presence.

Matthew Dols 46:23
Such a popular buzzword. An authentic curated presence, they your words

Stacey Dodd 46:31
about it, six, eight. That’s and that’s really important to me, because it’s about having that integrity in the community as a person, are you there or you’re not there? Are you available. And so that’s something that I put a lot of time and effort into in the beginning, and it was a lot of time. And overtime, once I built up that presence, I’ve been able to sort of slowly sort of just take it easy, as well as having that community there is sort of just generating itself now. So I still am available. As much as I can be more so than I probably should. But that’s my choice.

Matthew Dols 47:15
Yeah, so you’re, you’re in New Zealand. And so like, one of my big questions would be, what’s the range? Like? So where are Where are your customers? Are they Australia? Or the Europe? Americas? what’s what’s your sort of?

Stacey Dodd 47:30
I would say 70% are American. Really? Yeah. big group of wonderful Americans. It was mostly American, but now it’s sort of European as well. And suddenly, New Zealand, Australia, but more so New Zealand now, which is really great. New Zealand as a shy

Matthew Dols 47:58
was always intuitively I always say this about artists in general is like they think they everybody seems to think your market is where you are. But oftentimes your best market is what quite often not where you are, because everybody else can get whatever you can get, because they’re, they’re there with you. So oftentimes, you have to go to a different market. So it sounds like in your case, the Americas is one of the biggest by far.

Stacey Dodd 48:22
And I think as well with New Zealand, if I put myself in the position I was in a couple of years ago, I was looking for convenience colors, and I couldn’t find them. So I looked elsewhere. But now what I’m finding is those New Zealand hours finding me and light up, you’ve got the colors, I want this, so they’re all buying specific shades that are convenient shades, those that is telling me that, you know, they’re, they’re in the position I was in. It’s just tricky. So it’s great. Yeah.

Matthew Dols 48:55
Okay. Now within that, though, because a lot of this is also sort of about the business of like, how do you be a practitioner in the arts world of doing whatever? So in your case, it’s, you know, being a manufacturer of a product, so, but are you only online or are you hoping to or are you already currently in some any retail stores or outlets,

Stacey Dodd 49:15
that is something that is going to be happening in the future, and hopefully local, that will be next year. And it will probably just start off real small and local to begin with. And see what happens that are in response to that. It was just a matter of I guess, because I have the locality of where I am is a bit tricky, because I’m out in a country a hint. So the nearest town is where I’ll be you know, bigger town will be where I’ll be sort of having a go at that

Matthew Dols 49:50
town or city or metropolitan area.

Stacey Dodd 49:55
slightly bigger town. Definitely not city So the major city that’s closest to me is Auckland,

it’s a pretty major city is pretty major. It’s about 1415 minutes. It’s not good. It’s lovely.

Yeah. So it’s all bed the right opportunities here. So I’m just sort of easing myself into it. Yeah, cuz I don’t want to burn out either.

Matthew Dols 50:20
Is burnout, something that is a concern is because of the stress associated with being a special needs parent. So it’s always sort of there doesn’t make sense. Sure. Because something can go wrong with you. You have your special needs parent, your wife that stress in and of itself. I know. And you’re now like, basically part slash full owner of two businesses. Yeah. So I mean, I believe you just designed like the most stressful life ever.

Stacey Dodd 50:59
That’s pretty much it. Yeah, yeah. But the thing is with watercolors, that is my therapy. That is my outlet. So that’s why I have to have that in mind. Because I just, it’s so therapeutic, being able to work with color, and produce and the actual process of making paints like Melling. Yeah, that’s the part that I really enjoy. And it’s very therapeutic for me. And I really struggled to be honest with you during lockdown. Because I could not make paint. Why not? Because my son was at risk. We had to isolate away from home for six weeks.

Matthew Dols 51:44
Yeah, was it and he’s at home all the time.

Stacey Dodd 51:47
Yes. And we actually had to isolate away from our home for six weeks.

Matthew Dols 51:53
Why?

Stacey Dodd 51:54
Because my husband was working in the supermarket. And so he was exposed. And so we thought the safest thing to do was to just not be near him. So he would stay take care of the store. And we were apart for six, seven weeks. So it was really hard. And I really don’t want to go back there again, because it was art not not I can talk about it. But physically do the walk down again. Hell no. So it was really, really, like, tough, and I did not have the ability to make paint or work with my pigments. And I found that I didn’t have that outlet. I was able to paint. But it wasn’t the same. And yeah, when I came back home, I also wasn’t able to get back into painting. Because the lockdown the way it was done in New Zealand, we went down different levels where they had specific rules. So when we came when I came back to our physical home, Thomas wasn’t able to be at school, so I was still looking after him. So I wasn’t able to make pain. I just didn’t do it at all because I needed to focus on him. And he wasn’t able to go to school as well. So I had to do all of that. It was longer than six, seven weeks sexually, but I like marveling at my pigments and just looking at them in their raw form.

Matthew Dols 53:19
Okay, yeah, to each their own. That’s what, okay, but so you’re talking about COVID and all these kinds of stuff. And so did you see any change either, like better or worse, as far as your sales

Stacey Dodd 53:33
Misha really much better? I think what’s happened is, during COVID people have been in a position where they’ve been at home, and they’ve been word blurred. And they finally dabbling in that paint that they really always wanted to get and they just didn’t.

Matthew Dols 53:53
Yeah, that hobby that they always thought get to later. Exactly. Yeah, time.

Stacey Dodd 53:58
And I had so many inquiries, you know, oh, I really want in I’m like, I’m sorry, I can. I’m really sorry. So when I started up again, there was that excitement, you know, that I could reopen and as well because New Zealand COVID pretty much was very short lived. We were able to get back into things fairly quickly. You know, in operate normally, within a couple of months. That means that I could get get get back to shipping things and everything. And people knew that New Zealand was safe. So they didn’t mind buying from New Zealand as well. So does that make sense? Absolutely. Yeah. So I just went for it.

Matthew Dols 54:38
And how about the holiday season? Has this also been good for you? Yeah. Yeah. You’ve seen an uptick in the holiday shipping because I mean, everybody’s complaining about the, the international shipping and how they’re overwhelmed and blah, blah, blah. It’s like, no, it’s going well, yeah. Okay, good. Very

Stacey Dodd 54:55
well. No, I mean, I I’m in a position where I can’t fulfill demand.

Matthew Dols 55:00
That is an excellent position to be in.

Stacey Dodd 55:02
Yeah, it puts pressure on me because I want to be the person that can provide to everyone. But I can’t say yes to everybody on. And I, it’s working through that.

Matthew Dols 55:13
Here’s your platform, you can go ahead and apologize to everybody that you can’t help show. Right. Yeah, I’ll give you give you a free Flurry.

Stacey Dodd 55:19
Yeah, because I just love to help people. I’m a I’m a yes person it has so. So what I did do recently was I offered custom order slots. And that meant that people could actually have a slot and they can tell me what colors they want. And then then I went through those slots, and then I open up some more, but yeah, that that was really good for me to offer that. Because it means that I’m saying, Hey, I don’t have those colors available for you. But now you can ask for them. You know, I am here and I can do it. But it’s just I got to be careful about how many customer orders I do.

Matthew Dols 55:57
Okay, wait, I want to get into like a little bit of the nuts and bolts of sort of the running of this this company went okay, when it comes to like you keep saying term, like make pains or mo pains or like all these different terms of those you’re using. When you go and sit down and do this. So let’s say like make a color. How many? I don’t even know what pans Do you get out of that. So like, you know, one process of production creates how many pans 25 to 30. That’s it? Yeah, not much. I was I was expecting over 100 kind of,

Stacey Dodd 56:34
Oh, well. 25 to 30 of one color. Yeah, no, because if I’m working, I’m doing a set of six colors. It’s 25 to 30 of each of those colors of six colors. So yeah,

Matthew Dols 56:47
still doesn’t sound like a lot to me considering because I’m sitting here thinking anybody in the world could be ordering this. So the you’re literally only talking 30 orders, like that’s it. So like 30 people will get these paints like that’s a pretty limited rose. Yeah. Yeah, a limited edition Almost. Almost. Yes. You should like number the bottom of the pants, like limited edition numbers are usually more desirable

Stacey Dodd 57:13
as I do a release, and I do so many. And then I start working on the next round. So if they miss out on the first round, I say I’ll be opening a second round, because there’s only so many that I can make it a time.

Matthew Dols 57:25
But you need to tell people they’re limited editions like yeah, this little scarcity drives desire kind of thing.

Stacey Dodd 57:34
And people know this about me. Most of my customers know this, so they know they have to be quick. My website crashed one time because of it.

Matthew Dols 57:44
Let’s cuz you’re using Wix. I know, Wix so much. I can’t say too much. But yeah, I mean, yeah. horrible. Horrible.

Stacey Dodd 57:56
What was my other one that I looked at? Oh, Squarespace.

Matthew Dols 58:00
Squarespace is better. I have my own set of issues with Squarespace, but Squarespace is perfectly fine. I have an exponentially better step up than writes. Yeah. I hate Wix. So I hate it. They will never be a sponsor of this podcast. I should

Stacey Dodd 58:18
have spoken to you first. So you only went and spoke to someone else. And they were using work. So like Yes. Great. Horrible.

Matthew Dols 58:26
Now, okay. Squarespace is perfectly good. You know, I have my issues with them. It’s a personal thing. But WordPress I find to be the most user friendly. And but but it does take some skills, but it does take some computer skills to do it for sure you can. You can do it out of the box, but like you won’t have all the functionality you might want. But anyways, yeah, Wix is absolutely horrible. Squarespace is pretty good. I personally would encourage WordPress because of the customization like you really exactly the way you can you do like forums and things on it. You can do everything. WordPress was originally a blog. That was that’s how it was designed as blogging and became a website, company, organization, whatever. But it originally it started as as a blog. Yeah, they’re all about those. That’s my personal preference and being snotty, but it’s okay, we’re gonna put that in my brain into my bank. But again, it does take some like, I would recommend you to get a reasonably skilled person who can build a web WordPress website to build it. Once it’s built. It’s pretty easy to just use code, but it’s that initial building that you’d sort of want to, you know, even you can even get a college student to do it, but you want a professional to build it. And then using it is easy. Yeah, yeah. And that’s an area I need to work on. I I taught my father My father was like 60, some years old, I built a website and then taught him how to use it in less than 24 hours. And he was just going to the races with it. So Wow, it’s it’s not hard to use it to build. But once it’s built, you’re fat. Yeah. All right. Any advice you have for any listeners that maybe would want to make their own stuff or what you know why to buy? Why to buy custom?

Stacey Dodd 1:00:37
So with the custom, you’re getting a product that has, basically, it’s mostly just your pigment in your binder. And so you haven’t got all of those extra bits and things in it. You know, like your brightness,

Matthew Dols 1:00:54
down selling your product, you’re like, it’s easy. Anybody can make, you know, by mine?

Stacey Dodd 1:01:00
Yeah. Well, it’s twofold, isn’t it? Because it’s using the product, making the product, but making the product is hard. And this? I mean, from when I first started to now, in the very beginning, it wasn’t great.

Matthew Dols 1:01:17
Okay, hold on one second. Wait, I have a question that I forgot to ask. You mentioned. Okay. So you you mow paint, and you only get 25 to 30 pounds out of it? How long does that process take? So let’s say you to make 25 to 30 pounds takes you how long from beginning to end.

Stacey Dodd 1:01:32
So what I do is I make a big batch, and then store that paint. So that is the trick. You don’t want to mail a batch every single time. So it might take you depending on the color One, two hours. But then you’ve got a big batch. And then what you do, like, form batch, okay, I’m

Matthew Dols 1:01:57
not sure I have the terminology. Right. Let me let me run through what I’m hearing and tell you. So you have a pigment. And you take that pigment, and then you bind it together with all the different chemicals and other things that you put together. And that process is called modeling. Correct? Yes. Okay. You will take your pigment and your mala together. And you will do this for between an hour to two hours. And out of that you will get 25 to 30 pans of watercolor paint. Yes. And then you sell those for how much is a pan

Stacey Dodd 1:02:29
about is just over $9 US dollars.

Matthew Dols 1:02:33
That’s what I saw on your website, make sure to put more. nine dollars at $9 times 25 or 30. Let’s do 3018 to a to $270 for two hours of work minus all your hard costs, you know, the pigments and the chemicals and all this kind of stuff. And then and then the amount of time that you’re putting into like social media and building your community. I do not how are you making money out of this? From the paints? Yeah. That does not sound like you’re making a lot. You’re certainly not, let’s say saving for retirement. Oh, no, absolutely not. No, no,

Stacey Dodd 1:03:20
no, definitely not. That’s why it’s hard. And I do this, this is more of a hobby.

Matthew Dols 1:03:26
Let’s not tell people that let’s say you’re a professional. It started off as a hobby. Okay, that’s great. Yes, I’m everything starts off as a hobby.

Stacey Dodd 1:03:34
And I still treat it that way. Because I get a lot out of it. Does that make sense?

Matthew Dols 1:03:40
It does. However, you would get more out of it. If you had more income. Yeah, you could get more you could get more people to help you. You could get you know, young boys to like do the manual labor for you kind of thing or whatever. Yeah, I could. That sounded dirtier than I meant it. Yeah. But I guess I’m a control freak. So that would be a no idea. That’s terrible. It’s okay, I run my own podcast and I edited and I do all my own social media. So as I’m a little bit of a control freak, probably myself. So

Stacey Dodd 1:04:17
yeah. You just like to do it your own way. And I guess as well the integrity factor and ensuring that, you know, you know, what’s happened all the way through the process? Because, yeah, if something did go wrong, then

Matthew Dols 1:04:32
you don’t want to blame somebody. Okay, but Okay, so let’s take that. So the for the future of your company in New Zealand, your corporation. So do you intend to grow? I mean, because they there are sort of two different ways to do what I picture sort of what you’re doing, which is sort of a euro boutique, unique, small mom and pop kind of content. Yeah, absolutely. And what and you could choose to make That your brand and continue to be that way for your entire existence and not to what we’ll call it grow and get bigger. Or you can choose to grow and get bigger and sell out and have your stuff in target or Kmart or wherever. So what’s your vision for the future?

Stacey Dodd 1:05:16
To not be the latter, so not good. I’m happy to just stay as I am, and I’m happy with the fact that I’m working with beautiful colors and pigments that I make for myself, and that people purchase and get joy out of and that they all sell. So there’s always demand there. I don’t think I would want to get any bigger unless I ended up with a couple of staff but not not yet. Anyway, no.

Matthew Dols 1:05:52
I highly recommend somehow they working in the term limited edition or some sort of verb category like that, because, as I said, like scarcity breeds desire kind of thing. So like, make people want them because there’s limited edition. It’s like a tennis shoes and like all these other brands that do these, like limited edition things, and they’re gone in an hour.

Stacey Dodd 1:06:13
That’s pretty much me right now. Sorry, here’s an example the set that I did have out I think 25 to 30. were gone in 10 minutes.

Matthew Dols 1:06:26
Okay, you’re doing pretty well then if you can pull that off.

Stacey Dodd 1:06:28
Yeah. So and that’s when my website crashed.

Matthew Dols 1:06:34
I blame that on Wix. Well, one time. No, in all honesty, it was probably your hosting company and had nothing to do it. We’re gonna blame Wix cuz I don’t like Wix. Yeah. And you’ve got your outlet for the day. I have vented my disgruntled opinion of Wix.

Stacey Dodd 1:06:54
Yeah, you’ve just got it out of your system. Everything’s alright.

Matthew Dols 1:06:58
Oh, no, I’ve got plenty of other disgruntled things to discuss. But the keep that for another time. Another time?

Stacey Dodd 1:07:06
Yeah, so yeah, I’m in that position right now. So I have that reputation that people know. They have to be quick. No mucking about?

Matthew Dols 1:07:16
How do people know? So like, do do you just hear from me that they hear from other people? Because that was like a newsletters

Stacey Dodd 1:07:25
of posts on Instagram, and stories. So I get an average of five, four to 500 people viewing my stories every day.

Matthew Dols 1:07:36
Okay, I was gonna ask you about that. Like, I’ve been trying to use social media. I am absolutely horrible at it. Embarrassed, like when I asked people to be on podcast. And like, yeah, I’ve only got like so many 100 people on Instagram, it’s rather pathetic. But anyways, do you find that stories sort of drive more or actual posts on Instagram drive more

Stacey Dodd 1:07:58
stories adore rate. So if you’ve got that many people viewing your stories, then, you know, I’ve actually not listed products and just sold them on stories within the hour. All gone. Because there’s a delay with how Instagram allows people to see posts on the main feed. People might not see it for another day. And then they’ll go, Oh, I missed the release. And I said, Well, you need to be watching my stories. That’s where I share everything up to date. So my best advice, every time is in my post as well. Please turn on notifications for for my stories. And my Instagram posts because Instagram stories on posting people know I post all the time. And if they’re viewing it, it should, if they’re viewing it regularly, it should always be sitting at the top. And just above, you know, at the top of the screen

Matthew Dols 1:08:50
currently until they change the design again

Stacey Dodd 1:08:52
until they change it again. Exactly. So on average, you’ll get four or 500 every day viewing my stories, which is pretty good, I reckon. Even though you know, I’ve got lots of followers, we all know that big numbers don’t actually mean everything. You want a average pool of people there that are generating that, I guess authentic audience. So those are in your stories. And if you keep your stories active all the time, it will always appear, you will always be in the face. So I always keep my stories active.

Matthew Dols 1:09:22
I tried that. And I just got tired of doing it. Yeah, exhausting. Like I would imagine.

Stacey Dodd 1:09:29
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, I can, I can relate. It is great for another reason. You can use your stories. And then you can reuse that content in your main grid as well. So if you’re doing like say videos, you or images, you can reuse those same images or videos, for reals and use that repost that for people that messed up in your stories if the content was good qualities If it was a video of me swatching a paint, and it came out really good, then I’ll repost that is real. For anyone that missed it in my stories or the it’s permanently on my main grid so they can see it again, because that’s what people really want to see. They want to see the paint being watched.

Matthew Dols 1:10:17
I’m gonna sound so stupid. There’s a difference between a story and a real, yes. Okay,

Stacey Dodd 1:10:24
reels, reels are new there, they only came out what, like a month ago.

Matthew Dols 1:10:30
Okay, that explains why I don’t know what you’re talking about. And then there’s

Stacey Dodd 1:10:34
a new a new thing that’s come out as well called guides. So right guides, yeah, guide books or something. And that means that you can put all your, you can correlate all your posts from your main feed into groups. So I put all my blog posts into one group, and I put all my sets of colors into one group. So if people want a shortcut, they can go into the guides. And it’s, I think it’s a picture of an icon of a book or something.

Matthew Dols 1:11:05
I know what you’re talking about. Yeah, it’s the Yeah,

Stacey Dodd 1:11:08
it’s like, it looks like a book. So you’ve got your main growth. You’ve got your

Matthew Dols 1:11:13
listeners, were both sitting here playing on our phones.

Stacey Dodd 1:11:15
Yes, we were just looking at the little icons at the top. You’ve got I think it might be reels next, and then Instagram TV. And then you’ve got guides. And then after that you’ve got tagged text posts as well. So yeah, quite a lot of content.

Matthew Dols 1:11:32
I think you have things that I don’t have on my Instagram could

Stacey Dodd 1:11:36
be because I’m bitter to stir, maybe that could be why

Matthew Dols 1:11:41
well, and also your you have more than a certain number of followers and certain things are opened up like possibly I don’t know. Well, like I know that, like, if it’s under, I can’t remember what it is. I think it’s under like 5000 followers or 10,000 followers. You can’t do the shop button. I can’t do either, because I’m Yeah, okay. It’s 10,000. Yes. There are certain certain things that are opened up. As your followers get larger. It’s Yeah,

Stacey Dodd 1:12:10
I hear that’s one thing you can do is share links to followers, no gold ticket.

Matthew Dols 1:12:20
If I can get if I got 10,000 followers, I would be ecstatic. So I don’t even care about the ability to do the things. Exactly. Yeah. That would be pretty cool. Yeah. I look forward to it. We’re growing. We grow. We grow slowly and consistently. And that’s no great complaint. Yeah, it’s good when you do it’s gradual. Yeah. That’s healthy. Not that I have a choice, but it’s fine. Yeah. I would think you’d like a bit more control here. But no, I’m looking forward to handing over that control. I look forward someday to be able to hire somebody to do social media for me. All right. I think I’m too old. I’m 47. And I’m just out of touch. And I don’t get it. I don’t I don’t know what people want. I don’t know how they want. I’m like, Yeah, wow. Yeah. Whereas I love it. I love this. Like, I love a good conversation. I’m happy to do this. You know, and I can engage with this for as long as you want. But social media. It’s beyond my my skill set, I think. Yeah, I love it. I love other people’s, I enjoy looking at social media. But I don’t like doing the production person for social media. So yeah, yeah. Any last topic that you care to talk about? To expand on that you didn’t get to expand on something that we didn’t touch on that you would like to discuss?

Stacey Dodd 1:13:44
I don’t think so. I think we talked about quite a lot, including my recommendation to go on to WordPress.

Matthew Dols 1:13:55
I’m still a teacher, like so like, I still gotta teach. Exactly. Yeah. It’s good.

Stacey Dodd 1:14:03
I think if anyone’s listening, I guess if you’re curious. Instagram has a fabulous art community. If you’re curious and dabbling in watercolors, then Lumia. It’s a it’s fun.

Matthew Dols 1:14:16
Great. Well, thank you very much for your time. Thank you.