Transcript for Episode 067 – VR Artist, Olek, (NYC + Poland)

Recorded March 31, 2020
Published April 30, 2020

Full recording here: https://wisefoolpod.com/fiber-artist-olek-nyc-poland/

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Matthew Dols 0:12
Well, everything is changing right now and everything is gonna change dramatically the next few months in a year?

Olek 0:19
Oh, absolutely. In a good way, you know, I have nothing was working. So it’s actually a very interesting moment. And very, it’s a really beautiful moment to live right now in you know, and experiencing and being part of the creation now. And how come you attract by the way?

Matthew Dols 0:36
Oh, it’s horrible. I’m absolutely horrible with languages. I’ve studied six languages in my life, and I remember nothing of any of them. So,

Olek 0:45
oh, maybe you want to study in different way? You know, like, that’s the thing we all can learn. And we studied, you know, if we want to learn it, yeah, well, you have a blog, somebody may have told you this one day, that you are better with languages and you believe that you believe languages. And it will happens because that’s how we are being black, especially when we’re kids, or teenagers, somebody tells you, you are really bad at math. And you’re like, Okay, I’m better with math, which is not true. You just have to, you know, go and studied. So we’re making art with everything else.

Matthew Dols 1:17
And there are many things like that, that I would thoroughly agree with, but no, I’m just really bad with language. I’m a visual, I’m a visual artist, like I can communicate visually, I can point at things I can draw things, whatever. But as far as like, the written word, or sort of vocabulary and stuff, it’s not, not my, my bag.

Olek 1:40
I agree. Because, you know, we are right now having particles and, you know, we are talking, oh, we’re gonna be talking about certain subjects. But you know, we’re both visual artists. I’m a visual artist. And I chose visual as my language. That’s right. So the way for me to communicate everything visually. But as language is also, it’s a beautiful language, because it’s something that everybody can understand. But nobody ever, ever understands, really, you know, it’s like,

Matthew Dols 2:09
like, I can travel almost anywhere in the world and communicate most things that I need through just visual cues. So I mean, the visual language is a much more universal way of sort of communicating, devoid of written or cultural languages.

Olek 2:26
Yes, but we also have to remember that certain things in one culture might mean something totally different than another culture, that the visual language that some places something is accepted another place, it might be vulgar or even, you know, so that’s also for us to understand the difference in the cultures.

Matthew Dols 2:44
Certainly, yes. So let’s take this back a step though. So let me start back with my Do you like to be called Alek? Or is your given name?

Olek 2:55
Oh, you can call me any name you want either adopted or like, I am actually I am. I’m a two spirited person. So I’m non binary I’m, which is interesting that I discovered it quite late in my life. But I understood everything what brought me to this place, and even having those two different names. I gotta is a woman name and all it is actually a male name. So you can choose, you can switch from one name to another, you can give me some other name, if you want to give me I’m fine with that as well.

Matthew Dols 3:28
I know I’m the host here. I will do to please you. Oh, that’s good.

Olek 3:34
I like this good.

Matthew Dols 3:35
The first question I generally ask people just to sort of get the get things going is like, so how did you become creative? So like, background, so family teacher? Like, how did you even get into being creative as a child?

Olek 3:51
You know, I’m gonna be 42 in a few days. So I have to tell you, exactly for two years of my life to understand it, but I think I was always told to do everything not to be creative. I was born in raised in a communist Poland, and nobody can really understand it. Especially if you’re an American, you know, so you need to understand what it is and how it was at that time.

Matthew Dols 4:13
No, I have no idea. I just had this conversation with my Czech wife last night.

Olek 4:17
Yeah. That’s why when first contact me I told you our check, so easier to communicate because we will have no similar experiences. But But I remember my my first experience when I was preparing for First Communion, and during the time, religion was, you know, really illegal. I mean, during my time, it wasn’t really like, like, they wouldn’t put you to jail at this point. But the classes were outside church outside the school. And my cut is really like all over places right now. It’s so weird. It’s like he’s like usually just sitting and now he was like misbehaving when I’m talking like this one day when people are in different locations, and he tries to like lick the back. Okay. So, I remember this experience when I was praying for this first communion and our teacher said something that really got me that time. And I remember it still, she said something that if we have the creative gift, and we don’t pursue it is like a really big sin. And I remember, as a small kid, I look around the room, I said to myself, I hope nobody notices that I have the gift. And later, you know, as a kid in his in elementary school, I would be responsible for like, all decorations, and I was responsible for like, all kinds of decorations for the school, and I was making my own clothes, mostly because there was nothing in the store. So we had to make clothes. So being creative was kind of like something that was, in a way a really important skill to survive. You couldn’t go to, to store to buy, like the art supplies for children. So we have to kind of like collect things all year round, to make art out of it. And, but also, I remember my I have my first art fight in like sixth or seventh grade.

Matthew Dols 6:11
Would you say art fight?

Olek 6:13
out fight?

Matthew Dols 6:15
I wouldn’t. What’s an art fight?

Olek 6:16
Well fight about art with somebody in the art world.

Matthew Dols 6:20
Okay, I’m thinking like fist fighting.

Olek 6:24
Yeah. Sounds good. I’d fight. Oh, no disagreement that you put it in a in a in a better way? Yes. So I remember, I was also winning all kinds of competitions. And one of the subject of this competition was to paint or draw solution couple. So I was, I was raised in Malaysia, which is actually in Australasia, there’s a Czech part and polish part. And the language is the same, which is quite interesting. So we were drawing the solution couple, and I actually decided to paint the couple from the earlier point of view. So you could only see this big skirt, and like, and this men’s shoe and it was very abstract, but very realistic at the same time. And my teacher was really upset of me saying that, oh, you’re not because so come back from the clouds to hear and, and arguing with her saying that, that I really don’t like because I had your competitions, I had your prices, I don’t want to do it anymore. And she said, Well, I will not give you a recommendation to go to the art school. So my parents had to come to school and there was a huge drama, and she did not give me a recommendation to go to the art High School, which actually probably saved me because nobody can really teach you how to be an artist. You know, when once you go to this traditional school system, they model you. So I instead I went to regular high school, very good High School in Qatar visa. And I start will experiment on my own. I was like the one the one that borders open, I was hitchhiking, all around the Europe. Going to all different places. I will hit one out, hitchhiked to Amsterdam to see Van Gogh paintings, you know, in a museum. So there was really my education. And I thought I’m gonna be an art critic, really, because being an artist, I felt it was not really for me, it was like, it was just something that I couldn’t really reach this goal that I could never reach. And it also tells you something about how differently we are educated in Poland specially that time I don’t know now I left this country 20 years ago, in when I came to America, you know, people are here, people, we encourage you all you have a Thailand or you are great, you should do it. And important. The time has come to like, you don’t have a talent like everybody else. You’re never gonna accomplish anything.

Matthew Dols 8:40
Yeah, that’s a big cultural difference. Yeah, sure.

Olek 8:43
Yeah. So, so going through all this in I’m gonna skip all the years because there’s a lot of things that were kind of like, constantly pushing me into this creative field, and then going back pushing me going back. And then finally, when I came to New York in 2000, it was really like this moment of being allowed to create your life the way you want to create your life. I didn’t know anybody here so and nobody knew me. So I could start all over I could really take my life as an open book and right from the beginning. So really, here things started, you know, in the beginning, you know, you know, I had to like clean houses for 6000 hours working at plastic factories babysit, I’ve been I was a clown. I mean, all kinds of possible jobs just to survive, as we all do. Yeah. And then and then for my visa also, I need to like make sure that I had some paperwork because you know, when your limit grand you know that the problem is like how you’re going to find a way to legally stay in the country. So for this, I actually went to LaGuardia Community College, only because it was the closest I was in Greenpoint, the closest school to my apartment and that time I had to like have three different jobs to Pay for the apartments pay for the school for my visa for my lawyers. I was doing costume design already for dance companies and, and in this school actually I met amazing professors who come like, even this little push that I needed to have. And that’s when everything exploded. And I was like, Okay, this is what I’m gonna be doing. This is my, this is my challenges in my life. And it was in a way easier that I didn’t have family or friends or anybody that knew me here that I could totally take over my life, and do whatever I want to do. So there was really no fraying. Anyway, it was easier than now because you know, there’s no social media, there was nothing You know, so you have nothing to compare your life to anybody else.

Matthew Dols 10:47
I grew up under the the shadow of my father being a local minister, or priest, Reverend whatever. And so a lot of the things that I grew up to do, I didn’t do until after I left the place I grew up in because it was a bit uncomfortable to sort of try to be myself under that the watching I have the parish kind of thing. So yeah, I totally understand the need to travel to find a place that’s unique to yourself where you can be yourself. That may not be where you were raised?

Olek 11:20
Well, yes. But also, it takes you a long time to understand that the most important place to travel is your mind, don’t need to have the physical traveling, you need to you can travel in your mind and get the same effect. But what is it to say when you in for is then to somebody when you’re in 20s? Correct? Yes, 20 years of growing and learning and being like, ah, because right now I actually miss Poland and I went back to Poland and I want to spend more time in Poland. And the most beautiful place that that I love. It’s the place where my grandparents are from in a farm, not even the city. And that’s when I have my studio. And that’s where all my creative juices gonna go there to help me to recharge my batteries and work and I’m happy to be there in the middle of the woods. Or again, it took me to go around the world three times, to understood everything I was looking for I have in front of my doorstep.

Matthew Dols 12:15
Yeah, that’s the artist journey. Oftentimes.

Olek 12:19
I know. And now it’s this amazing time, you know that we have to reflect and see where we’re going with our life and choices. And this virus is actually medicine, this virus is actually a blessing for us all. But we all need to take it in the right direction, you know, this is a chance for us to change and find our relationship to the earth relationship to spirituality, to our creativity, to any work that we’re doing to the food, you know, to ourself to our family. So this is a very, really and beautiful moment. To experience right now wherever you are. This is where your soul chose you to be. and reflect on your life and solitude really is a medicine solitude is really something that we all should experience and I can imagine for you might be difficult if you have a wife and children but no, three cats, three cats, okay? So it’s still to you know, it’s important time to be in solitude in order to really cleanse yourself from everything else and, and find your own relationship to the whole world. You know, this is this is the moment that is given to us.

Matthew Dols 13:28
It is very interesting time. And it’s what’s fascinating is how it’s affecting different people, different cultures in different ways. You know, some people are getting more hateful and angry, and some people are getting more peaceful and more and more focused.

Olek 13:43
It says itself, our relationship to the world. 2019 was the year that was preparing us for 2020 2020 is the perfect vision 2020 is the year of, of clarity in a way that who you are, are you doing what you really want to do in your life? Are you in a place where you really want to be the person you really want to be? So this is the year of us really turning and deciding what we want to do who you want to be and where you want to be?

Matthew Dols 14:15
Yeah, it definitely does have that effect on you. I mean, if you you know, you sit down and think like literally just going to the grocery store, you could potentially catch a virus that could end your life I mean, that encourages the enjoyment of the every day because you don’t know literally if you have another any more days ahead of you.

Olek 14:35
Yeah, somebody said you know, leave every day as it’s your last day because one day you’re gonna be right.

Matthew Dols 14:42
That’s correct, but only once luckily.

Olek 14:45
Well, this is something like that, you know, if we never died all energy we come back we transform you know, but in a sense of this body this body has to go has certain limitations. How long the bar can go on and on and on, like anything else. But we transform into different energy and coming back. So it’s also time for us right now to start thinking about our connection to our spirit, our soul. And it’s, it’s a, it’s interesting to see how people are reacting to this virus right now in different places. Like the people I’m connecting the most with my, I’m a medicine person. So the medicine people practice different, you know, rituals, this is something that we always pray for, to give break to this earth, that everybody had to stop. And that’s what’s happening right now everything has to stop, stop, because we to start to breathe, you know, everything was spinning so fast, the planet couldn’t take care of it anymore. You know,

Matthew Dols 15:51
I was seeing, I was seeing news articles about how like, pollution has sort of gone away in certain areas, because all of a sudden, everybody’s not driving to work and all this kind of stuff. So there’s lots of philosophical ideas on how this is really can be sort of a changing time

Olek 16:10
listening, you know, all this movement, even it’s been happening for a long time, but even last year, you know, all this movement and fighting, fighting for climate change or fighting for nature. It’s bullshit. Nobody was doing anything. People were like flying the planes across the world and pretending the fighting about something people go into marches with the plastic bottle in their hands, you know, so things were not changing. Everything was just for showing all but really, you have to change the way you leave. And unfortunately, I’m gonna say women actually pollute the environment way more than men. And then they’re not gonna they’re not really truthful about it.

Matthew Dols 16:47
I mean, elaborate on that. That’s

Olek 16:50
interesting. So I don’t know you I don’t know how you will look like your wife but if you go to the bathroom, how many more cosmetics your wife has, and you catch a lot.

Matthew Dols 17:01
Yeah. So women are you know, everyday putting so much things on the face dyeing the hair almost every month all the dye goes to the earth, the plastic nails or the injection injection the face in the boobs in the in the US as you know all the plastic constantly putting on the amount of clothing, shoes, you know, all the things that women actually constantly purchasing and the purchasing being shipped for is in the production of the cosmetic is boring the environment then the shipping to your house building the environment. So that’s what women are doing, you know, every every day and now we’re sitting home for two weeks and nobody’s doing makeup nobody’s dyeing the hair doing the nails you wearing the same clothes you know the air can brave women are the one who have been more you know, breast cancer and all kinds of cancer. But it’s really like how are we taking care of our planet? How we’re taking care of our body. So this is a huge wake up call for everybody for you to face. I’m not a woman so I don’t have this many problems there.

Olek 18:10
Yeah, but it’s a it’s a it’s also the connection you know of how women think themselves you know and and we have to find a way to change it and I feel like we don’t have to like eliminate everything you know if you if you want to still do certain things do it but you know, limit the amount of items that you purchase all the time you know, we can we can change also the clothing Do we need a fashion every six months

Matthew Dols 18:37
you know six months that’s not normal.

Olek 18:41
When you think about how your passion sock shows are every six months we have a fashion shows and totally new trends right? So people are buying and throwing things out the production the materials you know, we have to have been really going to natural fibers. So there’s a lot of things that has to change and this is the moment for us to actually look at the mirror and say okay, what have done in my life and in my profession that destroy this planet or benefit this planet and myself included because it’s all connected. So again, you know even art I mean, art is a fortunate huge benefactor in in destroying this planet. You know, I mean, I remember when I was in Venice this year and seeing the amount of work that’s being shipped there. When it was literally under the water you know and now in venues you have a clear water and swans. The same in our you know, you go and the parties and you’re on the beach in Miami puzzle, but you have all the tents of the party is confetti, everything goes back to the ground. You know, it’s beautiful, it’s fun, but sometimes like when you see people everybody’s having plastic ever drink in the plastic cup of the plastic straw. So and then people put the sunscreen to go to ocean we We are all guilty of doing this, this virus, we all created it.

Matthew Dols 20:06
True. And artists are often very wasteful and we use toxic this and that. So, I mean, I I’m as guilty as any other artist if you’re wanting to use better higher quality materials that probably are not very friendly to the environment, but they look beautiful.

Olek 20:24
Yep. Yeah, and I mean, I’ve been using 100% acrylic yarn for so many years. And, and I’m so the factor is how its produced. And I was like, This is horrible. And I for 17 years, I was bracing this even when you could share all the fiber goes in your lungs all the time. And even I tried to like, I try to find the reason or maybe an explanation to myself that Oh, I’m not so bad because at least I’m doing some I’m creating and for some causes, you know, some social political reasons I feel better about myself, but it’s bullshit, you know, we and we are part of this pollution, then shipping this huge pieces between continents. It’s it’s all adding up, you know, it’s, I don’t feeling guilty. And that’s why I moved to an LDR because right now I can produce enormous installation. And the only thing I’m going to send is a file. I don’t have to travel. I don’t have to ship the installation. I have to buy the materials. Of course, yes, I need to have equipment. But hopefully I have one equipment that I can keep continue working. And I don’t have to, you know, ship anything. So I change in the beginning of this year, because I couldn’t live with myself of producing the same work over and over again anymore. It was just not. It was

Matthew Dols 21:42
funny you say that because I was actually going to be one of my questions for you. Because your your entire artistic reputation is built around the crocheting and crocheting and crocheting. And I wondered like what would be the next thing of course, then I looked on your social media, I saw you working with VR and all this so so now you so you’ve taken it from the the sort of the tangible real and you’re making this virtual crochet worlds? Is that what’s going on now?

Olek 22:09
Yeah, yeah, I’m having so much fun. But it started way this year after last year when I was just like, I just think what happened to the world. I was like, I have to change it. And I actually in in Basel when I was in Miami Basel, I start doing this performances of crocheting an air of crushing energy. So you know, and my friends have said to me, like, you know, you can do actually those in VR. And that was something that kind of like, was just like, oh, let me try VR. So it’s interesting after 17 years of crocheting by hand and being this very old fashioned person that was making a living out of crocheting, now I moved to VR, which is the most forward technology there is, and I love it and, and I don’t even under know how I understand it, because it is the machines in I believe everything has spirits and an consciousness. So I really talked to the machines, I’m like, Okay, show me the way how am I supposed to do it, and somehow, they show me the way and it’s been, it’s been a beautiful journey, but the only way to experience it is to actually put the VR set on. Because this installation, I just like very I don’t know how to even explain to you You go inside, and it’s very pleasing and, and very spiritual and healing. And this is just the reaction I’ve been getting from a few people who experience it. But adore is not really ready this for yet you know, because it also changes the way we present the art galleries have art handlers, but they’re not really tech art handlers. So that could change you know, this way of shipping, I will need the shipping company but we need to send the file and somebody has to know how to collect the file the computer and then to VR set. So it’s changes everything in the art market, but I feel like it’s it’s, it’s just about to start you know, and also it’s it’s a new way of collecting art and I think a lot of new collectors who are coming right now we’re starting to collect those are the kids who grew up on VR games. So most everybody has, you know, not everybody but like people who are you know, collect are they have VR set at home even though because they they play a game so it’s very easy to have, you know, a normal installation and many artworks actually and you only have one goggles, you can travel with this if you move to new location you don’t have to move the whole installation you just moving you know the headset so it’s a new way of for me of experimenting and and also I know the right gallery and the right institution will surface and and I’ll be able to work with them and show their work to to you know to the audience.

Matthew Dols 24:53
That brings up the you early on you started talking about how the the art world was broken before this pandemics sort of gotten in the way of life. But what do you What’s your perspective on what what do you feel is was broken about it? Or I guess still is broken about it? And what could we do better?

Olek 25:13
Yeah, yeah, that’s a good question. Are we all part of that? You know, I think it said it was interesting how, being living in New York and, and traveling through all the shows and having artists friends. And it was to the point, like, I think it’s still being this partnership between the gallery and the artists, it’s almost like we were, it’s, you know, we were supporting the galleries, you know, in a way, and the system, we’re not helping artists and rain, now we sing it. Of course, all the art shows are canceled, all the museums are closed down, everything’s closed down, artists are really not having any funding to survive the next month or two, because most people live month to month, you know, oh, yeah. And see, you can see there now the collectors are somehow not helping us, you know, a lot of people who even we’re in the middle of Commission’s the collectors kind of, like, run away in the private jet somewhere, you know, and, or some to some, in a private home somewhere and disappearing from the virus, not worry about the artists. So that’s also gonna change, you know, the relationship that has to be built between the artist and the collectors, and who’s gonna help us to support us. So that’s gonna change for sure, you know, I listen to podcasts of people who are, you know, have galleries and diaries are being closed right now. And they worry about how they’re gonna pay the rent, people who are working in a shipping company, or storage companies, and they’re like, we don’t know how you’re going to be paying for the art they have in the storage right now. So again, maybe their VR is the answer for us to be ready. You know, because we’ll eliminate all the unnecessary cost that you usually have as artists, I mean, Studios in New York become so expensive, that was just ridiculous, you end up selling work, and then it was all going to paying for rent, and car expenses. And that’s what people constantly just like spending spending. So now I’m, I don’t need to have a studio, I can work anywhere I want to work, you know, I just need really, like, you know, I can work in the smallest place possible because the space I’m working in is endless.

Matthew Dols 27:18
It is a fascinating concept. And I’m quite sure that that will be the an aspect of the arts world in the future. You know, it’s how quickly that that gets picked up by the public,

Olek 27:33
I think it’s gonna be very quick. I think it’s gonna be very quick. And it’s just just a matter of white guys and collectors are getting into it. And, and also the old equipment has to be, it’s already everything relatively new. So everything is gonna be way cheaper. I mean, think about cell phones, you know, how inexpensive cell phones are people have for two cell phones right now, right? So the same thing is gonna happen with the VR set, you know, right now you can buy equipment for $500. So it’s not very expensive, when you’re thinking about, you know, you can, you can have really, you know, amazing artwork in that, in that sense, I think that’s gonna change as well, that’s going to be something for, you know, for everybody that people are going to have, like, everybody has a cell phone right now, people gonna have the sets and or be able to experiencing the work, what I also loved about it that way, now, it will, what happens is interesting artwork that people use the art for, for many different purposes of advertising, and, you know, taking selfies and, but not really experiencing the art people are like going to galleries, and they have the phone between between the artwork, and then there’s a cell phone, so they’re all about filming, and reporting, what’s happening sort of actually experiences the art in VR, you can take a picture, you are really forced to have the, you will be forced to have this experience one on one with the artwork, because it’s only you who are inside that installation, and it’s taking you somewhere. So it’s kind of like forcing the audience to have that that individual connection and, and really experiences the work. So that’s also fascinating me right now, because I think as artists, we get tired that nobody’s actually looking at our artworks anymore. People are just like passing by to take a picture much a dress, or lipstick, you know, and like very often the blocking the artwork with the outfits, you know, for the social posts, so it’s gonna change a lot of things how we make art for sure.

Matthew Dols 29:36
Absolutely. So I mean along that line, but actually something that I keep running into, and I keep talking about this on the podcast is the idea of like, having to explain your works. So like, as a visual artist, I make two dimensional works on paper, and you make, you know, public sculptures and all this kinds of and generally we have to write some sort of artist statement for itself. How do you how do you incorporate some sort of way to explain the work when it comes to VR?

Olek 30:07
Oh, you know, I have a couple of statements I want, but I know this whole thing, but writing a statement is also ridiculous. You know, I really, would you agree, I hate to add statement, like, what’s up with his writing a statement? You know, like, if he was

Matthew Dols 30:21
alive now they would ask him to write a statement.

Olek 30:24
Well, the thing is that, that’s, that’s the other thing that people who will, art will become such a business, art or market become business for so many people. I think about one single artwork gives jobs to so many people. You know, the person who produced the materials assistant in our lenders, because the rent framers, shippers, galleries, you know, art critic, journal,

Matthew Dols 30:49
editorial ecosystem,

Olek 30:51
insurances, I mean, one artwork, right, but they want everything to be delivered to them. Even though people who write press releases, they want you to write about your artwork. I’m like, No, I’m making the art. You write something about it? Why do you want me to explain my own artwork? That’s why it’s a visual art. So we have to change it we artists, you know, yes, I know, you have to me, Hank, thank you. He doesn’t want me to patch him all the time. So I’m putting him here, you know, but I can’t, I can’t follow you. But but you can come here. But you know, everything has been delivered to, to the institutions and to and to people who, in the end, they make money because of our work. So we have to change it. So you know, and I’m, I’m always the feisty one, you know, like, people very often complains that I’m like, I don’t deliver everything. I’m like, No, like, I make the artwork. And you want me to take the pictures of the artwork and, and frame it might be hanging by myself and right above it, that I don’t need the gallery. So again, people have to start realizing they have to take care of the artwork, we should be responsible only for creating because,

Matthew Dols 32:02
I mean, in a perfect world, I 100% agree with you. Unfortunately, I have rent to pay and bills to cover and things like this.

Olek 32:10
We all do the same way. Like artists, we have the power. Collectively, we have the power to say no, we’re not going to be doing this. It’s your responsibility. And they will change but we spoiled the world. We spawned galleries by giving them everything what they want.

Matthew Dols 32:26
Well, not only did we spoil the galleries, but we’re also that would be like herding cats, I mean, artists, a few artists, like three to five artists can easily work together. But if you’re talking about like unionizing all artists together to stand up against this, we’re not a team, group of people really, we don’t work together that well.

Olek 32:48
Yeah, but that’s something that we could, we could, we could totally change. We all work for this. And you know, and it’s possible, like, you know, people very often when I participate in an exhibition, or like street festivals, after all, they’re like, oh, like, you know, you’re the only one who has a different contract, you’re the only one who gets paid. You’re the only one who did this, I’m like, really. So all those people were just like going blind and signing as it is. So it’s possible to change everything. But you just have to be like, either, you’re gonna change it for me, I’m not doing it.

Matthew Dols 33:20
I would love it. I say I’m supportive of it, I’ve often said that we should unionize. It’s kind of a joke, because I highly doubt we’ll ever do it. But it would be amazing if creatives you know, just creative people, so it doesn’t matter visual artists writer, whatever, that they could unionize and even just come up with like standardized pricing, just like something like that for time and energy or resources, whatever, just to make things easier. Because everything in the arts world is so arbitrary based on the whims of the arts industry and the people that dictates you know, who’s in and who’s out and who’s worth it, what news not worth what I mean, it would be great if we could standardize some amount of that

Olek 34:03
also, in a situation like this, because this financial crisis that they’re just about to hit as right now. Can I hit artists the most. So especially in that state, we do not have any support for artists, we’re gonna be out of a job. And, you know, there should be institution that will be like, you know, like, you know, I wrote to Evan few people in Brooklyn collectors, I’m like, this is a time already to start fundraising for Brooklyn artists. We need gonna need, you know, even, you know, basic income every month to just pass by because most of us do not qualify for any substitutions from government for many different reasons. So it’s like, yes, so this is this is the time of maybe, you know, find a way to help each other somehow, you know, as artists, but unfortunately, in a way the art is such a field of, of constantly fighting between each other, which is crazy because the competition exists in the sport, the competition shouldn’t affect is in the arts, but the way it is, I don’t know, I don’t know, you know, this this moment they will live in right now it’s going to change a lot of the way how, how is being made for sure, and the connection that we have. But it’s also very good time to be creative. And we are very lucky one, people who are bored or complaining of being lonely, I’m like, What are you talking about, I don’t have time for anything. I’m like, you know, I almost even today, I want to cancel this meeting review, because I was like, Oh, I want to make this piece into my head, I want to redo this piece. But I’m like, I can start at 10 minutes before I’m gonna start talking to you, because I know I’m gonna go for hours. So constantly, you know, like, it’s, it’s I, I produce art, all the time, doesn’t matter if I have a show or not, to me, it’s no difference. I do I make art every day. Every moment I have, I’m making art. You know, it’s not about like, people don’t even see, you know, maybe you see at 1% of the things I’ve been making, because there’s no way to, you know, presented yet, but I’m not making this for the audience right now. You know, maybe people don’t see it in 100 years, I don’t care, the most important thing is to work all the time with the creativity, we have a good connection, your creativity, you just gonna go you know, so again, this moment was given to us. Creativity is something is that is the moment that you have is only you, and the spirits. And however you can like summon your productivity, you have a now we are given this extra time to spend and create.

Matthew Dols 36:37
It’s been great fun. I mean, this whole idea of like social distancing, there’s the joke that like artists have been doing this for centuries. What we do, we hide in our studio, and we make our work and we don’t talk to people for weeks on end. Like, this is nothing different for us.

Olek 36:51
My leg hasn’t changed. You know, like, I’m happy to be alone. I always been cooking a lot of time because in ours to Brock to it out. So I always had to learn how to cook. I go on a bike ride around mostly in the morning, I go on a bike ride around Brooklyn, and it’s beautiful to see entire city to myself. There’s not nobody, not even police, you know, and I go to grocery store and one o’clock, there’s 24 hours place open in my neighborhood. So I go there once a week to buy groceries. And otherwise I’m staying in and I’m working. You know, I do meditate. Ya know? Everything?

Matthew Dols 37:29
Yeah, my biggest difficulty is is just actually getting my hands on more art material, because all of the art stores are closed.

Olek 37:37
Wow. But that’s maybe when you you know, you can think about how you can create in different way. You know, in I was telling you when I was growing up in a communist country, we didn’t have art material. What does he mean to have art materials, anything is art material for you. So it’s a it’s useful you get and that’s when your creativity is there is instant this beautiful moment. There was a book that I read last summer that was very inspiring. things called The Big Magic. It’s written by by the same author. What’s her name? I’m so bad with names. I’m sorry. She wrote this book. Pray Love.

Matthew Dols 38:15
Oh, Eat Pray Love.

Olek 38:17
Yes.

Matthew Dols 38:20
I’m so bad with that.

Olek 38:21
I know. Well, I’m sorry. She’s amazing writer. And actually, the it payroll book is amazing. It’s not the movie, but the book and showed many amazing books I really love and one is the big magic. I think it’s called the Big Magic or the Yeah, something like this. And that’s about Gilbert. Yes, Gilbert, thank you. So at least I wrote this book, The Big Magic. And actually I listened to books, I have audiobooks. Because when I work, I listen to books. Sometimes I go in a book a day, it’s kind of intense. But this book about creativity was just so amazing. The connection, the creativity that we have. And I really, you know, encourage you to read or listen to this book, because it will help you to understand yourself, ever. The fact that you’re talking to me right now, I think you also had a moment in insert. You want to, as you said in the beginning, you know why you’re doing this podcast, you also in a moment in 2020 in the search of yourself who you want to be where you want to be?

Matthew Dols 39:19
Well, I absolutely am. I mean, when I started this podcast, I had some intentions and some ideas of some outcomes that I’d hoped for from this podcast. And the honest truth is, from the discussions I’ve had with people through the meetings of different people on the different perspectives on things, I have changed my intentions for this podcast because of all the great people that have given their insights through it.

Olek 39:44
Yeah, so this is this is the moment for you to also be like, what do you want to be and don’t complain? You don’t have materials. You know what? You can find the materials around yourself, people.

Matthew Dols 39:57
Difficult

Olek 39:58
Yeah. No way complaining, you know, People select, oh, I don’t have a space, you can create anywhere, you know, I make the biggest installation in the smaller place as possible. In my apartment, I like one room, you know. And I made huge installation here before and I’m going to make it again. Because the space is in your mind, you know, when you have your mind free, you understand that you can go far, far away places. That’s why if you don’t meditate, start meditating. Learn how to meditate 10 minutes a day is a huge difference in your life, your connection to everybody else,

Matthew Dols 40:36
like what kind of meditation are you talking about, like transcendental tea, transcendental?

Olek 40:42
How to meditate? I had a hard time learning how to meditate for a very long time. And the person who finally taught me how to meditate, or Sam Harris, you know, Sam Harris?

Matthew Dols 40:53
I know I know, the podcast, yes,

Olek 40:55
yeah. But somehow is actually on top of his podcast. He also has up working up with Sam Harris, and it’s the best app for meditation, I’m gonna send you a link to it later on WhatsApp, so you can actually download it. And it’s, I think, unlike for a month, so it’s for free per month. And if you don’t have mine to pay, you can send them email that you’ve been doing this for a month, but demand to pay, they will give you one year free event. But it’s really amazing. And it’s

Matthew Dols 41:24
not sure he’s gonna be happy with you telling everybody.

Olek 41:27
He’s tweeting it. He’s very open about it. He actually publicly announced it great. Yeah, he’s great. No, no, he’s like, I paid for. I’ve been playing for a year or something. And now I said, like, you know, can I have a year free because, you know, you don’t know, when the next paycheck gonna come. And he gives me for next year for free. And I’m very grateful. So I want to make sure that people are using it, because it’s really amazing way of working on yourself. And meditation is lamping. That makes me sane right now, you know, of people calling me who are doing really badly and panicking, being angry and frustrated. And I’m like, let’s meditate. And like, I don’t want to meditate right now you understand it? I’m like, No, I understand it. Let’s meditate. I’m gonna show you I’m gonna teach you. So I was prepared for the situation. And I said, you know, Sam Harris really prepared me for the moment right now by teaching me how to meditate. And of course, other topics. I’m doing yoga every day, I have up for yoga as well. I’m using GNU public library to get the books in also, I can read the book. So I’m, I bought a new public library booking Public Library. So I’m Prepare to be in a lockdown for a long time. Because I’m not like, like, once we have your mind free, nobody can lock you. You might be in one space, but you can go really far away.

Matthew Dols 42:53
So I’m all for all of this. I mean, but the the hardest part that the the, I’m a married man, I have a wife, and she has sort of expectations for what our life should be like kind of stuff. So like, the hard part is, is that we still still need to make money. So like, there still needs to be some commerce in here somewhere. Like, I’m all for all the great art talk and art, philosophical insights and all this. But like, we all need to figure out ways to earn incomes, to be able to continue our arts to be able to afford our apartments to be able to continue these reo, for lack of a better word, these luxurious lifestyles that we’ve created for ourselves of being creative people.

Olek 43:37
Yeah, but that’s the thing. You know, you have to, you know, limit all the expenses possible in your life you are if you’re really an artist, you know, I just live in Korea goes ups and down many times, so you’re going to be prepared to going up and going down. And less you have, then you you’re gonna do better being down, and less things you have. It’s better for you. I mean, right now, I clean my place to the point that if I have to move right now, I can move in one suitcase.

Matthew Dols 44:05
Actually, that’s pretty impressive.

Olek 44:06
Yeah. But it’s just like that, it took a very, very long time to get to this point to have as little things as possible. And, and not to own anything or to be tied to anything. Because that’s when you have free and that’s where creativity likes it. And you can, you can never also as your creativity to support you financially. It’s happened is great. But you can’t do it, like hate my creativity. You got to make this piece and this piece has to be you know, sold for this amount of money because I need to pay for my luxurious life. It’s not gonna happen. The most important is to create and create something really amazing out of your soul. And somebody will support you, somebody will find it and support you. That’s how the energy works in the waters have been working all the time.

Matthew Dols 44:53
Well, actually, along that line. Actually, I have a question. I’ve seen some of your large scale and outdoor installations. Just a do are these projects that you You do? Or you did, I guess, because now you’re working in VR. But so you did. Where did you apply for grants to do these things? Were they planned? Or they did you do them and then people appreciated them kind of thing. Because I found, I’m American. And in America, generally I find that like, you produce a piece of art, and then people appreciate it. But in Europe, it seems like it’s much more of you come up with an idea. You pitch it to somebody, you get a grant or a funding or a residency, and then you produce the thing.

Olek 45:34
Yeah, so it both it happens, I did a lot of things illegally.

Matthew Dols 45:40
Don’t say legally, you just did them without permission, or

Olek 45:43
Yeah, well, doesn’t matter what what, what, there’s just semantics, you know, well, I did a guerilla style, you know, I just went because I want to do it, love it. And because, you know, that’s how your creativity is like, I am not a people person. Like, that’s crazy things for me, you know. So when I want to do things, I did things. And then of course, people want you to do their things. And, you know, and there’s money always for art projects. So those helping me to, you know, to live by people, I myself, don’t apply only for grants. But people, institutions apply for grants for me, and they will bring me to different places, as you saying I’d say this a little bit different. And what happens in in this country, also, there’s people, once they give you money, they want to have creative control over you, which doesn’t work ever with the artists, you know, but it’s way different Europe, when you have more freedom, I prefer working in Europe, when people really kind of understanding that decisions are making his decisions because of the best decision for the artwork. And in United States, they like, you know, the product sometimes takes three years to make. And of course, you change as a person in two years, and you want to update your project. And they’re like, No, no, no, it’s written this in this way, you have to do exactly the same way. And I’m like, Well, I want to make it better right now. So they don’t want to move very often, you know, so it’s, it’s Yeah, it’s much harder to do art in in this country. And if you look at the public art, it’s kind of like very just, you know, generic.

Matthew Dols 47:08
Oh, I know, I used to run a public art program in North Carolina. And it was a constant uphill battle for everything. They, they every every, every question, I asked her every opportunity I did. I mean, everybody wanted to stop basically, the first answer is always No, and that we have to convince them. Otherwise.

Olek 47:30
I know, I know. And, and I remember, good examples was just two pieces, I made the same time, one in Sweden, and one in, in Virginia milk. I know in the United States, and like, different working environment in Sweden, I create this apartment named zoom, and then when I finish and decide to explore the apartment, so imagine this, the museum director would look at me like, but he understood why I want to do that I want to illustrate certain situation that’s been happening around the word and the subject, you know, that was inspired to, despite me was really working with the refugees from Syria and Ukraine. So he supported this idea to do this. And it was a very, you know, very risky decision to do. And especially during this, you know, exploring the installation inside of the museum, okay, inside the museum. I need to explore inside the museum. So we hired in a very, very professional team, that was a very, very expensive, and, and we did it, and the results were amazing. And then, and then in Virginia, mocha, I was working on a piece, crocheting this Neptune statue, and on there on the boardwalk. And I, the whole team was, you know, to kind of like, tell people that we had to pay attention to our environment, climate change the pollution. And the last minute, I decided that I want to put the gas mask on the Neptune and the museum directors like, No, absolutely not, we can do it, this is gonna bring a scandal, they’re gonna get upset. Like we’re talking about, you know, that’s the whole reason why you hire me to bring the attention to the climate change. And to, you know, it’s like, so they didn’t want to do what I did it either way. And, you know, they called caps on me and ended up being a huge scandal, and they kicked me out, and they’ll pay me for the work. So you know, you can see two different places, you know, how people understand that you come up with the best solution for our project when you’re actually working on it. And there’s important to trust artists, this is something that we want to do.

Matthew Dols 49:34
Well, and that’s something that feels like he’s a bit difficult, like it’s becoming more tenuous, that that trust of the artists like I often say like, what I really want is I want to find a patron or a granting organization or whatever, a funder of some sort, or a supporter of some sort. That simply just goes I like the way you think and I like what you make, here’s money, or here’s time or here’s space, I will just give this to you, and I will try trust that you will make something beautiful. Yes. Nobody seems to do that right now.

Olek 50:04
Well, you know, I think the other part that we live in this time that people are afraid of their own opinion. So what’s happening right now you can see that there is a new art piece. People are afraid to decide if it’s good or not. Because they’re like, do I like it? Do I don’t like it? What if I like it? Somebody says bad, why look bad. Like, again, it’s like, because we live in the social media thing. People are afraid to express their feelings. And that’s what’s happening right now. And hopefully, it’s gonna change or being like no sale. Exactly. You know, who you are, be yourself. This is also the time to be like, you know, there’s no, in every art, you know, we’ll find our own collector or viewer. You know, it’s all for everybody. It’s like, we all have different tastes for art. We’re always gonna like different things, different colors, different shapes, different smells, different food, you know. So it’s like, hopefully, those people, those patterns will come and start helping artists. I’m hoping for this as well. Because, you know, it’d be nice to be in the moment when you can actually be free with your creativity and not worry about paying the bills that you have to pay, you know, so if it will happen, it has to happen, you know, and I don’t want to do things like some people advise me to married some, but I’m like, that’s horrible things to say, you know, what, I get literally curators who are just like, trying to hook me up with some guys to like, Oh, you, man, this guy is gonna support your creativity. I’m like, Are you insane? Well, my answer to like finding me, finding me, somebody who can support my artistic journey by like marrying me to somebody, this is insane. You have no idea how many times I’ve been told this way.

Matthew Dols 51:55
It’s quite surprising, actually.

Olek 51:58
Because when you start thinking about whether it’s very often happens, you know, I remember I was one of my first job in New York, as I mentioned, I was a babysitter. And I was babysitting actually, for a couple. She was a painter. He’s a doctor. I mean, she’s a painter, he’s still a doctor, probably. They have two kids, I babysit this kids. And when she got drunk in all of his mom’s always when you babysit, I was like, when they get drunk this like crying on your shoulders. Oh, it’s telling me know that, you know, when she met him, he said, he promised her that he’s gonna, like support her, you know, her, you know, artistic path. And, and then she’s like, you know, and then she said, I got a buddy, no, don’t do it. Because it’s never like this. Once we have a kids and you have to, you know, the Calvary of your home. And this and even you have a babysitter and housekeepers are the same, you know, being an artist, really. So it was interesting how I was babysitting in a house that that was happening. And later, when they called me out as a babysitter, there was only time when I was assisting somebody in the studio, and I was helping her to switch canvases. So what we’ve had a little bit, but then I realized she has such a limited time in her studio. And then she was guilty. Because he had to pay for this too. There was so expensive, and she wasn’t making money selling paintings, but she was not selling paintings, because she didn’t have time to spend the time in the studio working on the painting, because she had two kids and like, so it’s just like, she got, you know, like,

Matthew Dols 53:28
This made that sounds like the archetype of the modern artists. Yeah,

Olek 53:33
yeah. So, but it was also good for me to kind of have this kind of warming right away, like, don’t go there, don’t go there, you know, you know, I prefer to limit all my expenses. I mean, I was making my own clothes. And I can live very inexpensive if I have to, but to have them for my creativity and continuum, because I love making art. And the other part in a virtual reality is that I have to make all the art myself, which is amazing. Because the last few years, I have all these assistants producing my work. And that’s what happens very often because we live in this time of Faster, faster, faster. So I was making other big public installations, and I have to have a team of 20 people working with me. And it was fun, but I become the directors of producing the album my own hand. Yeah, it’s

Matthew Dols 54:19
very solid. When have you

Olek 54:21
Yeah, yeah. So yeah. So now, I love the fact that only me, every line that I’m making in VR is made by my hand. And I’m having so much fun, that’s all produced by me. And I love my assistants, you know, the over amazing people, but in the day, making art, it’s fun,

Matthew Dols 54:41
but should be

Olek 54:42
yes. And and you know, and instead of thinking, you know, the people who have all these big studios, why do they have an experience because if you painting the same painting over and over again for 20 years or longer, you don’t want to paint the same flower over and over again because you’ll be bored. So you need to have a huge team of people. doing this for you, you know, so the moment you get bored of making your own art, you should start making something different.

Matthew Dols 55:06
Yeah, I know. But beyond that, but when it gets to that kind of level, they’ve created such a brand and a factory system, and

Olek 55:16
then you haven’t decided, if you happy to have this brand and the factory system, do it. But everybody should find the way they want to produce art. So, you know, I don’t want to criticize anybody, but instead, I want to do it in my own way. And I don’t know for how long I’m gonna be doing this way. Because after working 20 years in the value that I will never say, again, like never again, because never know what’s going to happen. A few years ago, even I would not think of working in VR. And I know technology will go even further than that. And it’s just the beginning of really exploring all possible new ways of creating art, you know, so this is just the beginning of, of being really free and discovering all beautiful ways that it’s given to us constantly to create.

Matthew Dols 56:08
You mentioned earlier about using social media and stuff, you are incredibly good with your social media.

Olek 56:17
Yeah, I was researching you. And I constantly found you on like, lists of best artists to follow on Instagram. And you didn’t know about that? No, I didn’t know about it. Oh, yeah, you’re on many lists of best artists to follow on Instagram. So but you’re very successful, like, what’s your, what’s your philosophy behind using social media because there’s that balance. It’s finding that balance of like, how much time and energy, how much to show how much not to show what I like, what’s yours. So I’ve never use social media for promotional things, like I don’t post things over. Like, I use social media as a platform to create art. Instagram, is a place for art to create digital art you can do everyday every week, however you feel is a platform to create digital art. And that’s why I look at Instagram and anything else I’m using. I’m now using on Instagram, like shadows, anything else because I don’t have time. And I want to really, when I do it, I want to make sure I create a new art piece almost every day. And, and that’s why I’m using it, you know, I’m having huge respect for Instagram, like in any other format, that this digital art. And it’s very careful the image, I’m choosing the wording, the story, there’s all connection there. So it’s like, that’s why I advise people, no, I don’t post there. Anything private, you don’t gonna find my friends, my family, my places there because I don’t want to like show people how I leave or who I’m hanging out with what I’m partying or what I’m eating, do my private life, I’m keeping it away from social media. But social media is another way of producing art is it Canvas is a blank canvas is given to us and use this as opportunity to show your work. Maybe you want to find a way to communicate with somebody else through Instagram stories, you know, you know, it’s relates to a current situation somehow, while you’re doing this a lot of private moments. And I think, again, Instagram also is a public art. I’ve been doing public art for so many years. And it and internet is a public space. So it’s the same way. My work, instead of physical public space, or the internal public space, it’s always very personal, but because personal can be universal. And that’s what I always been going with my work to come from, like my deep place that I’m being like, you know, taking care of and then presenting it in the form of of that quick, Instagram image or video that somebody can experience and take something from it.

Matthew Dols 59:07
Okay, I’ve got to ask something, and it’s gonna be possibly blunt or rude, but I’m going to ask it anyways. You use penises a lot? Like your Instagram feed and your artwork is just littered with penises. Why? Where does that come from? Well, then what are you trying to say with all the plethora of

Olek 59:32
well, penises? Are we cute to actually to objectify in the first place? But but it actually when it started, I didn’t even know why it started. But it took me a long time to realize that I’m non binary person. I’m a Two Spirit parasites on both men and women. And I know sometimes it’s very difficult to do to understand it. I came with this discovered throughout American ceremony and a being to spirited person is it’s a huge blessing. It’s a beautiful thing. But before For the two years before that, I was just working with this penises. And I couldn’t even understand why it was happening my work. But in a way, I think, subconsciously, I was showing myself that male part of me that I don’t have physically penis, but I have this male part of me my character and a lot of people, you know, well, even I was in Poland, people would call me, Baba who up, which in a way it’s kind of like, it could be taken as a as a derogatory way of describing somebody, but women and men, but actually, in a way, it’s a compliment. And people also try to change me to be more as a woman for very long time. And I was kind of like, okay, maybe you’re right, maybe I’m like showing too much of my like this Metro character, I should be more as a woman. But I realized I don’t have to I’m, I’m fully accepting myself as I am. And I love every part about myself, and I still have to work on many things. But why don’t you appreciate the way I was created? And the penises are fun, you know? And I think, no, they’re like, I think humor is also important to have, you know, and I love both men and women. And I really don’t like the gender fight that’s been happening for the last, you know, two years. And in a way, it’s just, I don’t know, just, you know, creativity also doesn’t have a gender, you know,

Matthew Dols 1:01:23
I’m perfectly fine with all your penises. I just wanted to know why they were there.

Olek 1:01:27
Yes, I feel like, very often, anything that you make, I think when you make decision in your artwork, you don’t understand what you make in the moment you making it. But later, you realize why you make this decision. And it comes from a place when I started working on something, you know, I do, like ceremony. You know, I’d like opening ceremony for the moment, I’m creating the space, I’m creating art. And I do a ritual, I would dance and I like go in, I go in and I ask the Spirit to guide my hands and guide my words and do what’s supposed to happen. So very often things happen without me even knowing what I’m making. And that moment, right. And it takes me my audience taking the time to explain what I was doing something two years earlier, because usually takes two years for somebody to kind of like, start understanding and work that I’ve been producing, you know,

Matthew Dols 1:02:22
I find it takes me five years of hindsight to be able to look back at something and say, these were all the things that were that were extraneously going on in my life that influenced that work that I made at that time, that I was unaware of when I made it, but I now see it with hindsight. Oftentimes, I talk to people in the arts industry, oftentimes through this podcast, but not always. And they talk about how like, artists having consistency in their works and, and sort of things through ideas that are sort of consistent through between bodies of works, and through their evolution of their work. And so it’s really hard for me, psychologically, to just say, Oh, I’m just gonna play with this other thing for a while, maybe a couple months, and then and then I’ll get back to the thing that I actually do. And so it’s very hard for me to just put my creative people let yourself go. I need to Don’t get me wrong. I

Olek 1:03:27
was very inspired. I saw remember I saw the pickup you’re showing mama and. And I was like, wow, this guy was really free. You look at his paintings, they jumped from seven different styles back and forth. He was free. I mean, he also was independently wealthy. So he couldn’t be free. But, but he was really free. And there also was inspiring to me that, like, you know, do you really care what people gonna think about you right now? Like, just jump, jump from style to style and just be free and creative and do whatever you want to do? Don’t pay attention of people in the comments and how they’re going to look at your art. No, it’s not. It’s not that just let yourself go let yourself lose, you know, and you are in a beautiful place Prague.

Matthew Dols 1:04:07
It’s great advice, and I should listen to it. My unfortunately my my methodical brain. My OCD brain doesn’t let me just wait

Olek 1:04:17
by meditating and then it’s gonna change. You know, we, we spoken for almost an hour, so we’re gonna be closing soon. But the last thing I’ll tell you. So in Prague, I told you I had this connection with Prague. Yes. And there’s a place when the wishes come true. Where Ah, so um, so I remember I went to Prague first time, I think I was 18. I hit a first time I actually was the first place I saw outside Poland was Prague. They went to Paris, back to Poland. And then in the end of the same summer, I want to go back to Prague and I heat like, by myself from Poland to Prague. And I fell in love with this guy. And of course, it’s like two days we met he when he went to Finland, our way back to Paul. And wrote some letters. And then we all love those stories was lucky, right? So then things can disappear as they disappear. And year later, I decided to go back to Prague with my friend Agnieszka. And it was the last year in high school because we were preparing. She already was accepted to university, and I had few more exams to take. And I remember we like working. We’re drinking all day long and partying, I know how Prague we like, you know, 19 in Prague. And, and I read somewhere that in Prague, there is this jury cementery them in the main square, and there’s one graveyard if you write your wishes on a piece of paper, and put it in it, their wishes will come true.

Matthew Dols 1:05:47
In the Jewish cemetery,

Olek 1:05:48
yeah. So we went there. So it’s right. So it’s, it’s right there. Have the name of a town where it’s raining the main main square?

Matthew Dols 1:05:57
Oh, I know, the Jewish cemetery. Yeah.

Olek 1:05:58
So we went there. And on a piece of paper, I wrote two wishes. First, I wrote that I want to meet him. And the second that I want to study in postman. And she wrote something else, you know. And then she decided to go back to hostel and take a nap. And I took the book, to read that it was helping me to prepare for the exams, and I’m working on the Charles Bridge. And I’m working on Charles Bridge, and I look to the left, then he’s there. He’s sitting on the Charles Bridge. So I met him. crazy story. And then when I went back to Poland, two weeks later, I passed the exams, and I saw the important thing. And then later, too late, a couple years later, I went back there and I wore a piece of paper when I moved to New York. So you know, it’s interesting, because it’s, it’s the fact that people say the wishes come through over there. Or there’s just our belief that it’s happening. Right, right. So if you really strongly believe in anything, you can make this happen. So it’s really up to you to have this belief that the magic will happen a year ago, we went back to Prague, with my friends from high school, we meet every year, some other places, I really close friends, and we went to Prague, and we stay actually in apartment next to the cementery. So we all just going there. And in 20 years, things change so much, because at that time, there was like no people there and no pieces of paper. And now we see pieces of paper in all the graveyards because people just like putting all the wishes everywhere, you know. So it was interesting to see how much more tourists are coming and traveling all around places, but you are in a place when the wishes come can come. It’s possible to make their wishes come true. So just walk there in the afternoon and think seriously, but the wish that you want to have and this like everything else in your life, you have to be very serious what you want. Be careful what you wish for. Yeah,

Matthew Dols 1:08:02
indeed. Thank you very much. This has been a lot of fun.

The Wise Fool is produced by Fifty14. I am your host Matthew Dols – www.matthewdols.com

All information is available in the show notes or on our website www.wisefoolpod.com