Transcript for Episode 041 – Painter + Sculptor, Jan Kalab (Prague, Czech Republic)

Published December 16, 2019

Full recording here: https://wisefoolpod.com/contemporary-fine-art-podcast-with-painter-sculptor-jan-kalab-prague-czech-republic/

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Matthew Dols 0:12
Please pronounce your name correctly for me.

Jan Kalab 0:14
Jan Kalab. It’s my name. Jan Kalab.

Matthew Dols 0:19
That’s exactly how I would pronounce it. So that’s lovely. Now, you one of the things I always wonder about about creative people and in whatever part of the industry is always, where do they come from? So for instance, or were your parents creative? What did you have a creative teacher that sort of inspired you? Like, how did you get to the choice to be in your career

Jan Kalab 0:41
was difficult say, my artists were not. My, my parents were not artists at all. They were like engineers, like regular people, I come from a middle class. My own uncle is his architect. So there’s the closest connection to art. And so I draw like a since I was a child, like as everybody though, and then I just didn’t stop. And then I went to some, like, courses like growing courses. But I kind of it was like, natural. But I would say like the the real, like, commitment to be to become artist yet, which

Matthew Dols 1:30
is the interesting thing is like, what made you say, I can take this thing I enjoy and make it into a career.

Jan Kalab 1:38
I didn’t. I don’t think it was a career. But like I like in the night, in the early 90s, when I discovered graffiti, it was something so strong that I immediately know that I have to do it, and I must do it. And I must find out what it is. And I just like, I fell in love with it, or I don’t save it. Fell in love if it’s a good time for that. But I just like, immediately, like, took me You know, it like drove me. And so by year like, I started to paint it and it was it was fun. And I I like develop my style. But I think like doing the first graffiti piece, I would consider as a as like beginning to become artists because until then I was drawing, like painting but it was like, Okay, I have to draw this I had to do that. But there was no soul in it like this. So the I mean, like the your energy from inside that you felt like, that’s you and it’s so.

Matthew Dols 2:50
So that’s how old were you when you did this first? I was 1515. Okay. And if you don’t mind me asking how old are you?

Jan Kalab 2:58
I’m 41. So I was like it was in 93. So 26 years ago,

Matthew Dols 3:06
I don’t I’m 46 I’m constantly talking to people like way younger than that. I’m like, God, I feel so old. So at least say that we’re similar age, same generation, that’s fine. Okay, so you started out with graffiti at the age of 15? Yes. 15. So then how do you you’ve now built up like, from what I understand. And what I’m seeing is sort of like a bit of a little Empire here. Like you’ve got your own art practice, as well as troppo gallery as well as managing some other studios. You were incredibly productive and sort of very well respected in the region. Yeah, like, how have you, you know, what’s the

Jan Kalab 3:49
it’s a, it’s, it’s, like, it’s a natural way how things go and how they, how things come to me. And I try to, I’m just taking the chances or taking the opportunities and trying to like, do best out of it. I would like I come back to this to the beginning of this question. And it’s just like Empire. It’s not me, like we are like team, or we are like group of three artists plus one manager. Which is a bitch. She’s not artists like Blanca chamaco. But she is the she’s the one like who runs the gallery at the moment. But it was like our idea. But the truth is, I was I was a first like first who came across the some space in like 13 years ago. And from that space, everything started. So I was at the beginning, but it’s not just because of me. And I am probably like, relatively successful, which is also thanks because of just work, I would say. We’ll see

Matthew Dols 4:57
and that that’s a thing that keeps coming up. People who say like, Oh, just keep working, you know, just like, keep to your, your work and you will be successful. But I know countless artists that are not successful, who put the time and the effort and the work in there has to be some other element to it, other than just being working. Because,

Jan Kalab 5:19
yeah, losing

Matthew Dols 5:20
work is not enough. Like the old saying, like, the, like, if you make an amazing piece of artwork, and nobody ever sees it, was it amazing? to like, making the work is not enough that there’s something about the process of having to get it out to the right. Yeah,

Jan Kalab 5:37
that’s probably the hardest question about about art or being artists because you want like, being an artist, it’s it’s difficult job because it’s really unsure. And yeah, like, it’s, it’s, it’s really difficult to imagine for people, like, why not artists and having their jobs like what it is to be an artist, because it’s, it’s real, like you are not sure about like, the income like, at all. And on top of everything, like when you create and you are like honest with your creation, or being like doing your art, like you are constantly doubting. So you are, you’re like you have to you have to get over your doubts. And, and make your art and then like, make money out of this, you know, so it’s it’s like, it’s psychologically, like really difficult, in my opinion, to to become artists and become successful artists like to get like success or like, start to be able to sell art. It’s all great. You know, once you once you make it, it’s cool. And but you never know how long it will last? Like, we all hope it’s the last but you never know. But like back to the question, I am not sure if I’m able to answer because I’m guessing the same. Because, like to be successful, it’s relative. So of course, I’m looking to one of the artists, they are much, much less successful than I compare to there and you are like guessing yourself like wow, what should I do better? And you can just look and learn about certain strategies, or maybe like doing do a plan?

Matthew Dols 7:29
Well, that’s what I’m, that’s what I’m here the the idea of the podcast is to ask each individual person, what, what did work for you. Now, I know it wouldn’t work for everybody, and probably wouldn’t work for me and all this kind of stuff. But But what did work for you? And or what didn’t work for you like, what pitfalls or what problems Did you run into that you you never even were like, Oh, you know what, I might run into this problem. Like, you know, unforeseen problems, like, you know, so what was your sort of scenario? How did you build all this?

Jan Kalab 8:00
First, like, in the beginning, I didn’t think about like being sucks like, voter success in terms of money. Because like I was graffiti writer and to me, the success was like to make to paint a great graffiti pieces and be all city and get the get of fame, like graffiti, fame, you know, which now you when people talk about,

Matthew Dols 8:25
like, odd you see that amaze. Yeah,

Jan Kalab 8:27
exactly. And, but but it’s really limited. Like, it’s kind of like when you laugh and you when you look back, like in a certain way. But it was amazing. And it was amazing training for the real for the real life. And it’s difficult. Maybe it’s not that difficult. Like when I was a graffiti writer like I want to I wanted to reach like the like to be able to do everything what i what i what i saw on it. Like to explain you like the situation like after, like in the 90s when a communist communist system fell down, like the the, like Iron Curtain fell down, and he started selling cans, cans, can travel and of course, all the influences came here, which is like graffiti is part of it. But you were like, in inside you were you were still what was the what’s the what’s the right word for that, like you, you fell I was self can’t live he didn’t have self conscious, self conscious or conscious and self conscious. Because we we were like much worse than the western western country. So like when you travel Germany, like everything was expensive. And you didn’t have that many experiences in that. So and so when I did the graph when I was doing with graffiti and I traveled around to it. Everything was more expensive and You always, you always felt like a little bit like the guy from Eastern Europe, you know, and it’s inside you. So it’s, it’s difficult, I

Matthew Dols 10:10
think, like not degeneration. Now they don’t have it, but like we grew up in it like, and it’s like a handicap. Because I’ve run into this few times talking with people, especially people of the older generations kind of thing. They, they have this same kind of feeling that Yeah, the younger generation doesn’t seem to express this.

Jan Kalab 10:31
Because like I lived like until my 12 1012 years in communism, so I still remember it, but like my teenage age was already in the 90s, which was awesome time. But still like you had this handicap. Like or you felt you have a handicap. But, but I was like traveling and then then Denby say, I would like to paint a New York graffiti subway. And, like me and two of my friends because makarska like one one summer after our like, we finished high school. He has this called gymnasium I saw before the university. So we decided we that we will go to New York and we will try to paint a subway. And, and we made it. Yeah, and we made it like so much because we like everything checked by ourselves. And we put everything into it. So we made hookah, which is a Hookah Bar. And so

Matthew Dols 11:37
it was kind of a you did a whole subway car.

Jan Kalab 11:40
Yeah, he did, like couple of them and panels and everything. So it was like a heaven for us. But, but like, the domain domain out or domain experience from that, for me was that I can reach anything, and I’m not like, like, we are like, we come from East, but we, we are part of the world like so we touch the real history of graffiti, because like until then it was just, we are doing something what was done over there. But we were able to go over there and made exactly the same thing and got the respect from from, from everybody. So and this helps me like later in, in my like, also artistic career. Because then, like be well respected, like graffiti writers. And they were like this, that’s, that’s what probably helps me or helped me that I was International, I travel a lot, I had a lot of friends like graffiti fans. And from this fret from these guys, they they also become artists and, and all this all this scene creates like a new new scene. So so people that are like their friends become our guy galleries there on the gallery. So I was kind of like, known in this scene or had the connections. So So it helped me like to get into that. And once you are in, in certain scene, you are visible for other galleries. So once you exhibit in Berlin and somebody like I don’t know, from, from France, like sees it or the other way.

Matthew Dols 13:31
So you had this great network of connections basically,

Jan Kalab 13:34
like it’s just it’s, I it’s not the same connections, but I think like having this mindset of connections helps. Even from this like network, there is like two guys in it. But this one or two guys can bring you to another guy and then like it’s kind of open up. Right? So it’s it’s like this what helps me of what helped me and to get like into the like international market

Matthew Dols 14:03
and when did you transition? I’m looking at your current work, and it’s very, I would say not graffiti. Yeah, so yes,

Jan Kalab 14:13
it was also like a slow process, which was connected. Yeah, for sure with Rafa Chica, it was a space we run, like for 10 years and we moved over here and we run we kind of changed the concept little bit.

Matthew Dols 14:31
So what exactly is your role in the gallery, which is now called troppo? guy I am

Jan Kalab 14:36
I’m a partner or one of the owner like I was actually like now we are five owners so I one of the five owners I’m

Matthew Dols 14:45
but my question would be like do you run have any curatorial role or anything like that?

Jan Kalab 14:50
Oh, yeah, like, of course everything what every decision is done by these people. Okay, so we we have meetings curatorial committee more. So like, it’s, it’s one of these things like, it’s of course it’s created what? Who will we show next year? So we have to, you have to sit down and like, talk about the plans. So of course, it’s part of it.

Matthew Dols 15:16
One thing I’ve always wondered because like, I’ve worked in galleries and the I find the more sort of, I wouldn’t call it successful galleries, but the better the gallery is run, the better the programming is and all this like so. How far out do you plan your programming? One year to Yeah,

Jan Kalab 15:33
one year? I, like we were talking about the two years ad, which is good, I think it’s, we should do it more in advance, I think. But a lot of things change and like, V now we are trying to be as like a regular gallery. Before it was it was more not like I would not call it institution. But it was like underground like

Matthew Dols 15:59
an exhibition space

Jan Kalab 16:00
exhibition space. We did like so many exhibitions like, like more than like every month, which is like, it’s not possible to do it. So many exhibitions. So now we are kind of learning how to run a regular gallery. And in not be not be too extreme is obviously has been needed to get the grounds like or we need to live by our income. So it’s really difficult like to sell art. So we kind of like we are in the process of learning it like to have some kind of partners and this kind of things, which is not like the boring part about having gallery

Matthew Dols 16:40
Well, no, but this is the interesting part. This is the part that to me, the podcast is all about it, which is so you’re trying So originally trapo Gallery, which had its other name

Jan Kalab 16:49
trough that I fucka

Matthew Dols 16:50
terrazza. And it was supported mostly by grants.

Jan Kalab 16:55
Yes. But like we got like some fun, fun grants like 50,000 or you know, it’s just really small money. Yeah, but back then, we were like younger, and we had too much more enthusiasm. And so we everything was, you know, like cheap, or we had a lot of time. So and we were, you know,

Matthew Dols 17:14
we didn’t have families You did? Yeah,

Jan Kalab 17:16
exactly. So, so it was, it was totally different. But it was it was it was awesome. But now like we have to develop as our lives develop. So that’s we try to keep like, like, keep the balance, you know,

Matthew Dols 17:32
so how’s this Trent? So the transition from basically trying to do more exhibition space, sort of granting tort type of projects to commercial sales, basically.

Jan Kalab 17:44
Yeah, that’s, that’s the there’s a thin line between like coma, like hearing in Czech Republic, it’s,

Matthew Dols 17:50
it’s like, a lot of people get on my case. Cuz when I use the word commercial, like they, they’re sort of offended by the term commercial goods me. When I say the word commercial, I simply mean, a gallery that does.

Jan Kalab 18:03
And that’s, that’s the difficult part about about this, because keeping the balance between the commercial and I’m getting the grants were because of, of course, obviously, like, here, like the people like the city or whatever it is, they doesn’t want to support like commercial subject from public money. Sure, they do. But they do but but it’s it’s not always questionable.

Matthew Dols 18:30
Yeah, it is questionable. But it’s, it’s, it’s really difficult like to to just earn money by selling art like over here, come on, like so. So, we are trying to find a balance between that and doing good things. Which is difficult, but like be like we do it for a long time. And the Gup gala has a good reputation. So we try to keep it and develop and now Now we find an investor we have like Vidya construct the, like the toilets, the the we have a storage, I mean, like vehicles like this, like, like there was like a half million in investment, you know, just to be clear for people listening. That’s half million Czech crowns.

Jan Kalab 19:14
Yeah. So it’s still fun money for

Matthew Dols 19:18
Yeah, it’s a large sum of money and Harrison, two euros, US dollars.

Jan Kalab 19:22
So, so yeah, like learning, like, learning on the way.

Matthew Dols 19:28
So okay, so what had been some of the challenges that mean what have been some of the conversations of like, we have this great reputation, we’ve done these exhibition space and we have, you know, we’re known for that. We have these grants, we’ve had these previous supporters. How do you balance the but we want to sell artwork in that gun. So what kind of conversations happened?

Jan Kalab 19:52
It’s the conversation is about like, how can we survive or, or what we do end up with with Experiment, which is not much like it says it’s just about, like how to continue doing it. Because it’s, you know, like the manager, like, she has her like, regular job, but we want her like to have this full time job. And it’s still like, it’s, there’s still not that much money you know, to, to do it. So we are like, working on that on on making it possible to, to come to another level. So it’s still a process but as I told you, I’m one of five. And this is not like my daily basis. Think I’m, I’m doing you know, I my epic to, to like to beat like traffic or traffic or traffic gallery. But I don’t, I don’t I don’t like I’m not that like, every day or every month I just across the door. But I have my art and I’m like totally focused on that. Okay,

Matthew Dols 21:04
well, let’s get to that then. So, I’m sitting in your studio, it’s a beautiful studio, I love this place. I have to admit, I’m very envious of your studio. Like, it’s, it’s gorgeous, it’s spacious, it’s well equipped you have you know, you seem to be like what I would say like living the dream of like the artists lifestyle. So like, how did you get to this because every artist starts off working in their, whatever room they have free in their house or their garage or whatever. And then and they grow their careers like, like, how did you get to this point? Which of course I mean, everybody wants more? I’m sure. Yeah. Yeah. more natural light, whatever. more space? Yes. More technologies. stuff out of that.

Jan Kalab 21:51
So yeah, of course, like, like, as everybody from the humble beginnings. Yeah.

Matthew Dols 21:59
Like your humble beginnings were the streets Yeah, to see so

Jan Kalab 22:02
I didn’t I didn’t even need a space. Then I then I studied at the Art academies. Okay, so

Matthew Dols 22:07
you did study?

Jan Kalab 22:08
Yeah. I get stuff out. I first I studied a School of Applied Arts, which is improved in, in, in, in checking at black square. But then I switched to our academy and I finished my studies over there, which is right up here. And, and over there, like I learned there were like, workshop workshops in basements. So so there is like, metal workshop wood workshop. Like, what’s like casting workshop. So I, to me, it was amazing that I could learn all these techniques. So then I ended up like, working mostly in a in a garden. And because I needed space, because at that time I created like graffiti sculptures. And an after school I I was lucky because somebody induced me that like abandoned building, which then became Kotov Raja, and part of it was traffic gallery. Like, after two years, we, we were able to open the gallery. And in over there, I had my there was a hall and then I had like, small studio, but it was it was no studio, it was more like a little office. And then like we we get into the house next to the hall, which which has like the small apartment. So my first studio was in one of the apartment, which was like use which was abundant. And it was for several years was used but by drug addict people. So when I like kind of break into that I had it was so disgusting. I have to take all out like there was a there was a toilet like, literally, like full of shit because the hearing guys like, there was no water. It was like, it was like, so, so bad. And I imagined like I had to take all the shit like from the, from the toilet into the plastic bag, because there was it was done dumped or like stopped up

Matthew Dols 24:17
stopped cloud

Jan Kalab 24:18
clocked. So I had to take it also like to describe like the situation in the beginning. I had to basically like clean by by myself. And so this was my my first two days was like, I don’t know 3040 square meters. So the the I painted like for to be through three years then. Then the owner of this space built, beautiful, beautiful building, like near to there and he invites us to have us our studios there. It was beautiful. But after I think three years like he was like hey you Like grown up, you have to, you have to find your own own space and, and open it for some younger artists which which is great idea. And so we we got back into this old building but in between like, in the meantime, we kept all building but the main hall the gallery. And so after this entire mess of we, we came back to there and we start to look for new spaces and we found this and we have other spaces in another part of Prague where I have my storage

Matthew Dols 25:35
now, are you selling and exhibiting your artwork? Are you still sort of finding your own footing in your own style at this point?

Jan Kalab 25:44
I’m still finding about my style, but I’m selling. Okay, I was like, I’m kind of we I would say, now it’s it’s good. Is what I saw. I’ve I’ve like so many exhibitions, I have to like, work really hard. like to be able to, to bring pieces everywhere they asked for

Matthew Dols 26:05
that. That’s a I’m so sorry for you to have so many exhibitions, that I am not. I’m not sorry for you, though. Totally. Every artist wishes that we had that problem.

Jan Kalab 26:17
Yeah, so it’s I so I’m, I’m kind of living what I what I was hoping for. Of course, I need more, or I want more because it’s natural human. I’m just human. So it’s a boy toy thing boys

Matthew Dols 26:33
love their toys. We love our equipment.

Jan Kalab 26:36
Yeah. And it’s it’s difficult. So you’re kind of learning how to how to, to be able to to keep like to work with people how, like how to how to prepare very, for my assistance, how to work with companies how to? Yeah, so it’s, it’s, it’s like learning a company. So I’m learning this this thing. You know,

Matthew Dols 27:02
what, and that’s what interests me that because artists, we can all go to school and we can all learn how to make beautiful pieces of imagery, whatever sculptures of two dimensional work, whatever we make. But the schooling and all this stuff. They don’t teach us business.

Jan Kalab 27:19
Yes, that’s that’s the main problem of art school and art in Czech, Czech Republic.

Matthew Dols 27:26
It’s everywhere. No, no, it’s art schools everywhere. Don’t teach it. I’ve been in the United States. I’ve been in the Middle East and around here in Europe, and none of them that I know have, effectively I mean, maybe they offer one class or maybe two classes. But even those classes don’t truly prepare. So like, for instance, I’m looking around like you’ve got a really nice computer desk, you seem like you, you’ve separated your studio, and so that you seem to have a structure to your physical location. So I’m wondering, do you have a structure to your time? So like, do you say, Okay, I’m going to be in the studio from this time. I’m going to work on grants or write proposals.

Jan Kalab 28:08
I don’t work on grants, like it’s done, like, the grants are done by bankcard by the manager. Oh, I

Matthew Dols 28:15
was thinking you write grants for yourself not

Jan Kalab 28:18
I should hire someone like to get grants. I don’t have time for that. Okay. I I saw art, you know, I don’t I don’t do grant art. Some actually, sometimes I did some projects abroad. So yeah, like, that’s the thing like this district stack, structure, structure lies statute.

Matthew Dols 28:41
Having a structured learning

Jan Kalab 28:42
structure, like structure are like statute business is that to be able to find someone you know, and, and we can help in this kind of thing now. Now I’m like, learning how to like do the physical process of craving art, and work with other people. And, and of course, like my time is structured as you like, we like we set up the meeting and then you came back five minutes earlier, but in that five minutes, I needed to finish so I can’t like I kind of count like, every minute, or I don’t count but like, my time is like I use my time really like I’ve tried to use it really effective.

Matthew Dols 29:27
Well, okay, but so do you like set up for yourself like structure you say like, Okay, I’m going to be in the studio from nine till and then at two, I’m going to go do this other thing and you know,

Jan Kalab 29:39
if you like more nature, like, I come here I need to do or I look, look up at the clock and I kind of I need to I get the idea like what can I do in this time period, and and then I do of course like the the best thing is to be like in a studio alone and paint Of course for as long as possible, but it’s, it’s sometimes difficult though, like mostly I’m not here alone. And, and I have to do one other stuff then just painting. So I’m like, I structure Wait,

Matthew Dols 30:16
what other stuff? Do you have to do other than painting?

Jan Kalab 30:20
Hmm, I need to like prepare to paint, prepare the painting you like

Matthew Dols 30:26
to sketch do the sketch to the idea of the shape doesn’t say you have unique shapes. So yes, custom made

Jan Kalab 30:32
Yeah, so I have to make, so is the process a little more difficult because you have to you have to draw the shape, then it has to be fabricated. And like I mean, the shape has to be cut it out of CNC. And now my guy is coming, bringing like, the cutout shapes from the company. And now we will build it, build the frame here. So this is part of the painting, like creating this has to be in advance. And I have to draw it, then I then of course, of course, I have to find out the right colors.

Matthew Dols 31:13
My goal with the podcast is to try to make it so that anybody who listens if they listened to all the different conversations through, you know how hundreds of different people that I talk to, that they can figure out all the different aspects of the different ways to achieve the success for themselves and find their own path from all the different conversations. You as far as I can tell, seem to have pulled off that like hat trick of like somehow staying true to your artistic vision, while still making dynamic and interesting and engaging work and making enough money to not only sustain your work sustain your life, but to continue to grow.

Jan Kalab 31:59
Yeah, that’s true. That’s true. And I’m grateful for that. But how do you do the recipe?

Matthew Dols 32:05
Yeah, what’s your recipe? What is it? How did you pull that off?

Jan Kalab 32:09
Hard work?

Matthew Dols 32:10
Yeah, everybody says hard work. But like, okay, but like, let’s get more like, specific. Yeah, fine, hard work. Because you just said, yesterday, you wanted to be painting, but you had to spend time with a curator today you want to be working, but you have to spend time with me. You don’t I mean, like, there there are constant amount of different things that we need to be doing. You know, like, my wife works a desk job, she sits in an office and does her thing. And she’s pulled in different directions. But it’s sort of limited. Like, it’s only different directions within the Office, creative people, we are pulled in so many different directions, so many different things that we have to be thinking about from insurance, to getting resources to sourcing a CNC machine to meeting with curators to doing publicity to do all these different things. How do you find the right things to do?

Jan Kalab 33:06
I would say like looking, looking at people that are more successful than you are and learning from them. It doesn’t it doesn’t mean you have to come to them and ask them hey, how did you do it?

Matthew Dols 33:21
Learn me that I’m doing right now. Right?

Jan Kalab 33:23
Yeah. It’s it’s about like looking at kind of like, and thinking about like the moves. So of course, it’s a hard work. The thing is that you think that you work harder than the others, but maybe it’s something on top of it or like maybe like how we how we work how hard you work or?

Matthew Dols 33:51
Well, that’s my question is, it’s not necessarily how hard you work because I know people that sit in the studio 40 hours a week, but the problem is, is sitting in the studio producing work is not the work we always have to be doing. We have to be meeting with curators, we have to be writing things, emailing people, whatever. Like it’s not always about the work.

Jan Kalab 34:15
I think it’s about the work of first case, but it’s about how you how you present the work, but it’s it’s part of the art piece, you know, or it’s part of the mentality like you have to become you have to change you have to have the right mindset to be to get the sex to succeed or like to network that that is what I was talking about, like, let you look on the like more successful artists or whatever it is. And you look you want to do something. And so you kind of like can learn from their moves. Like you know Like somebody who let’s say, like printer ease. And so you look like you want you when you want to do sell out of your print. So, you kind of look on the guy who can do it. And you, you kind of you can count like how what is your purse your percentage of like, succeed, right? So, for example, like now everything is in Instagram. So everything is numbered. So you can count, you can count like, what is what is your, like, you can you can see, you can look at the successful guy. And, and and there are there are numbers, how many friends? How many, how many followers Was this the price,

Matthew Dols 35:48
so you can you can basically do the math and, and well, but that brings up social media as a whole, like his social media, it was

Jan Kalab 35:56
it was it was just

Matthew Dols 35:59
an example,

Jan Kalab 36:00
an example of like, about like learning of something. But of course, you can learn it like, in other ways, or, I mean, like, that’s just an example. Like that, you look and you want to do something and you want to succeed in it. And so you have to, you have to look on somebody who succeed before you,

Matthew Dols 36:23
when that’s the point of this podcast is basically you as a person that I’ve is has been nice enough to give their time to me, you have some level of success. And so what the hope is the I can get some information out of you, that will help some other person who’s desiring to be successful. Some sort of

Jan Kalab 36:44
incentive or anything like that, this is for example, this is like how to succeed in in one sale, or like in this same or this specific sale of brain release. Because you can adapt it, you can of course, like say so like if he sells like 100 paints, I can sell 10 five or 24 despise, it’s, it can work, because but you have to think it realistically, you don’t have to be naive, I was also naive, because you kind of think that something like will happen out of out of nowhere, but never happens like that. Right? Because so like, more concrete plan you have the closer you are to the target. So like have

Matthew Dols 37:35
you ever sat down and like done like a business plan for yourself? Sort of like this is these are the steps I want to get to in the next three years? Five years? 10 years? I

Jan Kalab 37:43
really like I would I would like to

Matthew Dols 37:48
know time.

Jan Kalab 37:49
Yeah. Like, I’m not maybe I’m not. Not that person. It’s like I believe more, it’s about more. I’m more abstract thinking. Yeah. Because now now, now my train is running, you know, like I’m on the deck and I’m like it’s going and like to get to get to the train. Or like to be invited to get on board. There’s the most difficult part.

Matthew Dols 38:17
Yes.

Jan Kalab 38:18
Because, like Czech Republic is nobody cares about like, What’s going on over here. Like we are like the artistic art market. It’s really disconnected in my opinion.

Matthew Dols 38:31
And this is all about your opinion. So that’s

Jan Kalab 38:33
Yeah. So to me, like, I was like, my goal or like my, my dream or what I like to this guy will he want

Matthew Dols 38:47
aspiration,

Jan Kalab 38:48
my aspiration was, was to be successful, like internationally. And it’s that’s what what, what makes fun like, you know, like to me like it’s the same with graffiti. I wanted to do a survey in Berlin, in New York in Paris, because I just simply want to touch it. I want to I want to experience that how is it like to do it? So it’s the same with art I want I want to like be like be able like to to be everywhere because I I’m like wondering how is it you know, because you see like the big artists and they have exhibition everywhere and they produce so much so so you’re asking do I want that but I want that because I want to experience that I want to have the experience how is it so that’s that’s the main my main energy like motivation, my main motivation Yes Does the right the right word. So to get on a on a track, because like we are growing up in Prague and I love everybody knows each other. We have like groups galleries and dancer lay like you exhibit here that that in the end lights same audience all the time. So it’s not much progress if you if you keep, like exhibiting over here, right? Of course like yes, collectors are limited even now it’s really good time to sell art in Czech Republic, I think. So I was thinking how to do it like how, how to how to break this, break this wall and be able to exhibit outside. And the thing in art is that you are not you cannot be the one who come to the gallery. It’s it has to be the opposite way the guy has to come to you to ask you to make an exhibition. So So the goal is like to find out a way out to attract the galleries. Correct. So so this is like this is this is what the what the guys they are like they want to succeed have to think about?

Matthew Dols 41:06
I know and that’s that’s the difficult aspect.

Jan Kalab 41:09
Yes, that’s the difficult. So you have to you have to like work hard on this

Matthew Dols 41:15
right with me. But even within that there’s sort of two, like, from the conversations I’ve had, they’re sort of two trains of thought, which is have a lot of exhibitions soon as a sheer volume, possibly, let’s call it like lower quality, because you’re doing a larger quantity versus as an artist striving for the higher quality exhibitions, but having fewer of them. Which one ends up being the more successful route to take.

Jan Kalab 41:44
Yeah, that’s the question like now. Now I ended up like having that many exhibitions as I’m thinking. It’s too many, and I want to get like, museum shows, but it’s so difficult. It is another another level, you know, I’m I’m thinking about, right? And so it’s constantly, like, constantly, like wanting to achieve all different levels,

Matthew Dols 42:13
right? We I mean, we constantly create new goalposts for ourselves,

Jan Kalab 42:18
as you’re saying, Wow, this, this is the this is like what is success? So, so you kind of like come down and say, Wow, but maybe it’s not this maybe what’s your what’s your current success goal? Yeah, you reached a goal and you want to go somewhere next. So, so the, and of course, like, it’s, the question is how to open the door?

Matthew Dols 42:43
That is the question. That’s what I’m here for.

Jan Kalab 42:45
Yes. And the question for me as well. But definitely, it’s about the hard work, but like to focus the work on this target. Or like, I mean, I mean, maybe on here too, like to be able to enter you have to find out, like how to how to open the door.

Matthew Dols 43:06
And that’s what I’m trying to figure out by conversations. I mean, I’ve started to get some sense of like some some techniques and some ideas but the bottom line that it always seems come down to is always meet the right people, you know, networking connections, basically, like you said, like, it’s not about you approaching a gallery, it’s about the gallery saying they want to work with you, it’s about building that relationship between you and the gallery in some way. But it’s also the network like because that gallery had to hear about you in some way. So so that means that some other artists or some curators and critic or some collector heard about you and somehow mentioned you to this gallery and the gallery then came over to you and approached you. So there there has to be this sort of like expansive collection of connections, but how do you do that? Is it is it through just like sheer volume of exhibiting? Or is it through print, you know, sort of showing in prestigious places?

Jan Kalab 44:01
Love other prestigious places doesn’t come like like, right away? I think I think there is a right so that is the like evolution or development of of the level where you are so bad. So you have to you have to start where wherever you start and just grow as nature to grow as nature. So just grow, we’ll see. But a lot of people think like for me, I’ll give a perfect personal example for them instead of saying like other people. I’m 46 years old. I’ve

Matthew Dols 44:33
been a professor for more than 15 years I’ve been in America, the Middle East. I’ve been making my art for 2530 years at this point. I couldn’t did 30 years I would have been 15 so 2025 years, 25 years. And and I and I walked into Europe going like okay, I’m 46 years old. I have this great CV, I have a great reputation. I have all these credentials, and nobody gets But shit about me when I walked in here. So when I kept moving and every change I made in where I lived, I literally have to start all over from scratch, like your reputation does not follow you, if you if you move so that you have to have that nest strong core network to then expand out from so you were born and raised in progress. Yeah, okay, born and raised in Prague, and you’ve more or less sort of kept Prague as your home base. So you have literally the connections from childhood, all the way through your entire life. And you’ve then gone away internationally and come back and then gone away, come back. So you’ve kept that foundation, that strong foundation, which not a lot of artists do that a lot of them travel and they

Jan Kalab 45:47
know like, I I travel all the time, it’s just the base is still over here.

Matthew Dols 45:52
Right? But having that, but the need to have that base is very important.

Jan Kalab 45:57
Yeah, it’s very important. Like for work, I would say, for creating the verb because, you know, people, you know, companies, they can help you or they can create great like stuff, you can well they can cause they can better. So it’s good to have. Now I think I’m on level that I can afford, like to go everywhere, anywhere. And I’m very good data because it doesn’t matter. Because I have connections. But like to be here the cheapest, and it’s my it’s my home. So I don’t have reason to go anywhere.

Matthew Dols 46:31
Well, I mean, it’s a smart business move. I mean, why live in London or New York or Paris and pay the rent prices of other things there when you could do the same work. So that’s

Jan Kalab 46:41
what I that’s what I realized in New York. One of my, one of my moves on the way how to succeed in gallery world was like to have a studio in New York. And because, you know, like,

Matthew Dols 46:56
Yeah, everybody wants to be in New York. Yeah,

Jan Kalab 46:57
absolutely. So I just, I just rented out a studio, and I spent some time and I saw so many unsuccessful artists. Yep. That like, you know, like, imagine like, me going dad like to suffer like you are talking about, like, starting from scratch. I was like, and being like, one of like, 1000s and 1000s of guys like that, like tiny, tiny studio and but you are in New York. And I was like, Huh, it’s not my way. You know, I, I rather be able to do like, to have a beautiful studio to be able to do like big stuff if I want because of my goodbyes. And, and so I work but this how like, but this moves helped me like to jump to jump on a train like in certain way. Like, because if you are new york like my theory is nobody looks east. Everybody looks West because of how do how the Earth is spinning. Okay, yeah. So so if you if you like this My theory? Sure. If you want to if you want to attack somebody in Paris, you they don’t look like to you my

Matthew Dols 48:16
our side. I should move to London if I want to track back

Jan Kalab 48:20
to New York, because the petitioners looked in New York. Yeah. Or everybody looked in New York and New York, maybe they look, they just do the observes. Or maybe they even see Los Angeles, New York doesn’t look

Matthew Dols 48:31
anywhere. But now.

Jan Kalab 48:32
So just yeah. So if you if you look at it this way, then it’s like kind of show you the way you know, so go there like to come back. So that’s what I did. Insert like, this is like kind of shortcut and it’s, it’s one of the kind of like, my, my view or my opinion about the functioning of the world.

Matthew Dols 48:59
It’s great that I totally get it and I understand. So I’m just sort of, so Okay, so when and how did you get your first gallery? Who was your first gallery? Wait, are you represented right now?

Jan Kalab 49:14
Yeah, like I have a gallery in. In Germany. I have a gallery in France in London in like San Francisco. I have a gallery in in Houston type of mirrors but I like it. us us. I have a gallery in Miami. I have a gallery in Rio de Janeiro. I’m kind of like covered Yeah, seriously. And and like for example like the US market it’s difficult it’s really difficult now it’s like probably connected with the the political situation. Probably the people are afraid like the middle class is afraid so they don’t buy that much. But it’s Yeah, but I what I was talking about like you were we kind of like what Yeah, we

Matthew Dols 50:00
always do. Take it back wherever you want.

Jan Kalab 50:04
Yeah, like go to Boulder first gallery. I have I have, like, I’m not working with fitness gallery anymore. But like, Yeah, we did some sale this year. So like we are in touch. So it was in Germany in West Germany. But and then I was like my like first real gallery was in, in Paris like, no, it was not first like probably the chair I had to look in my CV so kind of like, see, like, what was for us what was neckline but it’s not that important. Like, the thing is that, like, no, I explained before, that was some gallery in Romania, in Bucharest, but this was through check centers. But this, this didn’t bring me like the success on West or, like in this part of world. I went like for example, I because I wanted like to have God. So I went like to burn us IRS to paint some murals, and contacted a guy like underground gallery. So I did the small exhibition there. And I think this was the starting point. And when I went to New York, I didn’t have gallery there. So I photographed the pieces outside on the streets. And it was an interesting project, then, it was interesting for like some guys in Europe. And I rented out like I did a pop up show, I ended up the space. And I knew the show like one night show in New York. So if I, if you don’t have it, like you do it by your own. And because it’s my honor, the theory is the the, like the people usually want something they already saw. So you don’t need to solve that you you read the exhibition, but if you don’t have if you don’t have anybody like who does the exhibition for you, you cannot, they will not ask you to do exhibition, because how they can trust the data and didn’t see it. So you you have to create the exhibition by yourself. Like to show the sample sanely the sculpture, sculpture, if you want to do sculpture projects you need, you need to be able to do the first cup sculptures by us like by yourself. Because then they they see this physical sculpture say maybe this can be used that and that. But if you have a just on a paper or in your head, it doesn’t help. You have to be able to create it. And then

Matthew Dols 52:35
it can continue. Yeah, people don’t like that people don’t like sort of investing in ideas, but they’ll invest in a product.

Jan Kalab 52:42
That’s like, you have to invest in a product. And if it’s a exhibition, if it’s a sculpture is a painting installation, you have to just do it. Like to open some door. Interesting.

Matthew Dols 52:57
Okay, one thing that actually we haven’t talked about that I’m always interested his artist statements, do you write them?

Jan Kalab 53:05
Until now, I kind of didn’t understand what the artist statement is a great,

Matthew Dols 53:11
thank you. Okay. Thank you. I’m, I’m not a fan. And I and also I write them very poorly, I think, because I generally don’t get a good reception from my artist statements. So like, I don’t know. So I’m always wondering, like, are they important? Are they not? So obviously not very important for you?

Jan Kalab 53:28
I think it’s is huge us specialty. And I, when I applied somewhere, like I kind of like didn’t know, like, what should I write that? You know, like, what is the fucking statement? Like?

Matthew Dols 53:42
I love hearing that somebody who does well and has galleries all over the world is that I don’t read artist statements. So I have no idea what they’re,

Jan Kalab 53:49
I know, like, what CVS I can write, like, Who am I? Or I can ask someone to write it for me or like, do the simple CV to introduce myself, but I’m not sure if it’s the statement. I think the statement is like, what do you approach or

Matthew Dols 54:03
my understanding of a statement is Yeah, your approach basically sort of the, it’s a context or a why you make your work. So what’s the meaning behind the work? That’s

Jan Kalab 54:14
the questions I hate, and I think it should be written by someone else. And okay, it’s interesting, kind of like so happy. I don’t I’m not asked to write the statements anymore. Yeah,

Matthew Dols 54:28
I’m sure you have plenty of the critics and writers and curators that probably agree with it at this point.

Jan Kalab 54:34
Yes, but I remember that I was like always, wow, this, this feels like this statement, like what should I write? And

Matthew Dols 54:42
why I would imagine that at some point you would probably you had needed to because abstract work oftentimes needs strong artist statements like so the reason for the abstraction as

Jan Kalab 54:53
I kind of I can talk about my work my evolution and in this in this evolution, like it’s basically Like my approach or my path, what I’m like searching or what is my theme, but like writing it, it’s like, that’s why I art. That’s why I paint or like great art like not to write about it. Just I had like idea I wanted to tell about the other The third thing about like, trying to become successful. And I have like, get the good idea back, but it’s because I lost it again.

Matthew Dols 55:30
All right, I’ve got a question, since we’re on the topic of success. The idea of this podcast is to basically talk to people who have experiences in the art world about their successes and their failures and about and to try and find some intelligent paths for people to take to be successful. So since it’s just a podcast and series of conversations, I have created a thing, a quantifiable outcome. So I’m hoping to learn how the art world works well enough to get a piece of my art work personally, on exhibition in the Museum of Modern Art in New York City. That’s my, that’s a quantifiable goal that I have put for this podcast, and whatever everybody tells me to do, I do it. And I will keep everybody involved through the podcast of the problems and positives, you know, whatever. However, you know, whether or not what I learned has worked well. So my question to every guest is, what would be your recommendation as far as not not obviously, the end goal, but like how to put your career on a path to be able to get an extra piece on exhibition in the Museum of Modern Art in New York City?

Jan Kalab 56:45
You know, maybe, maybe, maybe your piece of art in MoMA will be the city of podcasts?

Matthew Dols 56:57
That has been said visitor as well, yes. Yeah.

Jan Kalab 57:00
Because if you if, if you imagined like heaven, or dance, and you did dance off, and you will do more, and you spend a lot of time in it, because if you will, if you if you want to succeed in MoMA, you should spend time in your studio and not talk to artists.

Matthew Dols 57:19
It is, well, it’s a difficult balance. I mean, I would love to be sitting in my studio, you know, every day, if I had the time and the money, I would literally be ecstatic to just be in my studio working all the time.

Jan Kalab 57:32
I don’t have money out of this. I would love this podcast. No, yes. At the same time, you can paint.

Matthew Dols 57:40
You’re right, I could choose to do that. But again, the point is, is that, like I came to Europe, and I realized that I don’t know how the market works here. So I’m at a loss. And I realized a lot of people are like, I don’t understand how the market works anymore. It’s like, what you have to understand is like, fifth 14 years ago, 15 years ago, I went into academia so I went into teaching and when I went into teaching, I sort of walked away from the the sort of the market let’s call it and focused on being a teacher. And then once when I moved here, I suddenly said, Okay, well I’m going to be an artist again. And not necessarily folks have my main income being a teacher. And I realized that I don’t know how because everything’s changed with the internet social media all this in 14 years. All the things I was taught in school about how to be an artist many of them aren’t true anymore.

Jan Kalab 58:38
Or maybe they are true about in a different way. The thing is like to be connected like to hate to have the base with we were talking about earlier because the base means like the two are rooted somewhere or you are connected to something and once you lost this it’s it’s difficult to get it get it back because like the route routes or like to be connected means you are known. And like you need to be known to like to be successful because it’s so it’s market marketing. And it’s very difficult with all social media at the same time. It’s so easy because of the social media, but it’s so so many artists. Yeah.

Matthew Dols 59:23
Do you do your own social media?

Jan Kalab 59:24
Yeah, unfortunately Yes. Because you have to do you have to do it. You have to do it.

Matthew Dols 59:29
Well, I can imagine one of your galleries or an assistant or somebody else could should

Jan Kalab 59:34
Yeah, like it’s not yet you do it like I think like I know people they pay for it but it’s not you’re not artists and usually the galleries I know they run they check the Instagram by themselves right somebody may be assistant like put down like some photos but for sure like everybody it’s it’s their own. Yeah.

Matthew Dols 1:00:00
They’ll rip but they’ll like repost your stuff. If it’s going to be in their gallery kind of thing.

Jan Kalab 1:00:04
Yes, kind of so. So this is really, like, really important nowadays. to, to be part of it, because everybody looks look at it. So, so to be a success to be successful and sell means like to be visible, I’m not saying like, it’s just Instagram, like artists like at firaga Art Basel, they don’t use Instagram, but I because they have they are connected like on different channels too. But this is one of in my generation or like a younger generation, it’s how it works because like everything is there like when you come to the galleries, they show the pictures artist show pictures, and galleries look at the artists they like, or they want to they want to ask for. for collaboration, you know, it starts like that to look somewhere. So of course, you have a website, but now it’s much easier to to just type your name and Instagram and you see all the all the actual big actual works. So that’s, that’s, and once you get disconnected, like when you were like teaching for 10 years, you lost all of this, you know, I did. And it’s like, it’s so difficult to get like to get back, you know, like to, to start from scratch. Like it’s, it’s so so difficult.

Matthew Dols 1:01:28
Thank you I feel your empathy.

Jan Kalab 1:01:32
Yeah, like I did, even it’s not like so strong. I, when I was graffiti, or street artist, graffiti writer, I used like, not my real name. I use like cakes point. At a certain point. Like, before I started at the time I did my, I think second exhibition, I decided to, to use my real name right and, and it kind of like you I lost, I lost I lost the identity before. And I had to I had to start from scratch. Sure. I took a couple of years until to get back and connected back with the with the background. I mean, like with the past, like what I did before, that’s why I did book like to show all. So it’s really difficult to start from scratch. I think it’s it’s smarter not to like, it’s sometimes good to do it. But like, more, although we get I think it’s a it’s better not to do it. Yeah,

Matthew Dols 1:02:34
I wish I like having hindsight, I would have made many different choices in my life. If I you know, I probably wouldn’t have been a drug addict for a little while. kinds of other things I did. But but but moving was one of the things like losing that base, I think was one of those main things.

Jan Kalab 1:02:50
Because once you once you are already set like internationally, then you can move. But if you are like connected just like locally, then it’s you lost it and you’re like, oh, nobody, right, that’s, that’s the hardest thing about it about moving. And good thing about moving is that you can do art everywhere.

Matthew Dols 1:03:14
Right? So I’ve taken up enough of your time here. So last little sort of question.

Jan Kalab 1:03:19
I just, yeah, remember that thing what I was what I wanted to say about like your main question, the how to succeed. Absolutely. Well, actually, that was my last question, which

Matthew Dols 1:03:31
was, you know, any advice on success basically,

Jan Kalab 1:03:34
yeah. So, so, another thing is like, to, to try until until you do it until you make it I mean, to try every door and to try to open every door and you find only like in this in this way you find what works or what not was not working. Because for example, when I was looking for for my studio in the period before I get this one I had like idea like what the studio would look like. But I look everywhere, like on online. I look, I asked everybody I quote I printed I even printed out like small like in Zara, I would say flyers. Yeah. And I put them around like area, I would like to have my studio. So and then it come it come up from different side. But I tried every, every possible way I could imagine to find a studio, right? It doesn’t mean that it will come from one of these why’s it come from this like, little different way, but I get it. But like, I believe that I get it and it’s different some somewhere else? Because I did everything for it. So it’s and it’s is the same thing with the lead if you want to reach gallery like, he doesn’t mean like that you write email to every gallery. It’s not doing right,

Matthew Dols 1:05:09
because that does not work.

Jan Kalab 1:05:11
That does not work. It’s it’s not that you did everything you just did sending out emails, okay, so I did the way of reaching galleries sending out email, it doesn’t work. So when you make a mark, it doesn’t work. So what else I can do? And so like work, work and think, like in this way, not like, I will stay in my studio I ever I wrote to everywhere, nobody replied, you know? Of course. Yeah, then the second step is going to go to the gallery like presently, hello, that doesn’t work as well doesn’t work at all. No. So but you have to experience that?

Matthew Dols 1:05:51
Well, the hope of the podcast is to try and make it so people don’t have to experience these horrible failures of like spending, you know, hours and weeks and months trying to like, put together a beautiful portfolio to email out to all these galleries that aren’t going to give a rat’s ass about their work.

Jan Kalab 1:06:06
Yeah, but I believe that everybody of us has a different way, or the different life path. And you have to experience by yourself.

Matthew Dols 1:06:19
Agreed. But there are some common traits, like I mean, the obvious things like don’t walk into a gallery with a portfolio under your arm, expecting them to look at it, pick you up, because it will not happen.

Jan Kalab 1:06:31
Yes, like, but you don’t know until you try it.

Matthew Dols 1:06:37
It’s true. I mean, I’m, I’m a huge advocate of basically, try everything. And somebody basically, like, throw a bunch of stuff at the wall, something will stick.

Jan Kalab 1:06:46
Yes, exactly. So that’s just what I would advise.

Matthew Dols 1:06:52
Well, and that’s the, that’s the idea of what this podcast is, basically, I’m coming out throwing a bunch of stuff at the wall, trying to figure out what does work, what doesn’t work, you know, what, what was successful for you? That that, that is, you know, should be something to potentially aspire to or envision,

Jan Kalab 1:07:09
visualize, also, like, visualize even like, you, if you sit at home, and you imagine it’s something different than you go somewhere and experience it.

Matthew Dols 1:07:22
Okay, well, along that line, I’ve got a question, then. There’s a long standing sort of opinion that artists should spend time going to other art galleries, events and things like this, like, How important was that earlier in your career? I mean, I’m sure it’s not very important. Now. It’s not not for them. That much. I

Jan Kalab 1:07:45
when I was younger, like, when you are younger, you go everywhere, to expand, but in certain point, like, it’s, it’s not fun, and like from, like, working wise, or career wise, or I don’t think it’s important, but again, like you never know, like, because somebody succeed because he, his girlfriend, like, he fucked the girl and she works in an important gallery, or another guy is gay and, and he meets a guy and he is from a rich family. Yeah. So everybody has his,

Matthew Dols 1:08:18
their own way and be born in the independently wealthy. So that’s why I am I can, I would

Jan Kalab 1:08:23
say, like, everybody has to try everything and experience that and, like, not be naive, you know, like, Okay, so this doesn’t work. So why did it didn’t work? What, what, what can I try next, you know, and, and that’s the thing, that’s what I was talking like, I, I went to New New York, like to experience that and you can visualize, you go to the gallery. So you see, like, who is sitting there? What is their job, like out And now? Now I’m in different positions. So I talked with two galleries and we are like having lunch and the end of the day, they are saying like, yeah, you know, like, that was like some nice, nice guy, you know, we start to chat in a gallery. And I know it’s always and then like, at certain point, you say, I’m the artist. And and all the guys that are like, Oh, no, again, you know, and they have to be kind but they don’t give a shit about anybody who comes to us from the streets

Matthew Dols 1:09:23
correct? by we get the same thing if I don’t say artist I say professor. So you can’t bought you can’t afford to buy anywhere.

Jan Kalab 1:09:33
Yeah, so But yeah, whatever. Like, tie for God.

Matthew Dols 1:09:41
Yeah, it’s okay. It’s, it’s hard. I mean, this is the like, Okay, well, okay. I want to ask a blunt, blatant question. You don’t have to answer it if you don’t want to, if you don’t feel comfortable with it, and I understand. I feel like it’s gonna sound funny, but like it’s a financial question. Basically so like, I feel like you probably at some point in your career, I want to say like, went into debt, I don’t know credit card debt, some other kind of debt to try and basically to advance your career in some way your that you you got to a point in your career where you’re like, I have to go into debt to expand it in some way. Did you have to do that? Or were you literally able to like sales were able to pay for everything.

Jan Kalab 1:10:29
The hardest part, or had the hardest time was after school, like two years after I came out out of school, it was the most difficult that I had, I had our way I was on a zero debt zero plus 00. minus. And once you you go over this, then you can like survive. Right? So and then like, it’s getting better and better.

Matthew Dols 1:11:03
So you’re saying you never went into debt? I’m doing right, I’m not saying like, Oh, you went over 100 crowns this month, whatever. I mean, I’m talking like a serious investment, kind of a kind of a credit card, large credit card, something like this,

Jan Kalab 1:11:19
oh, now like now I’m sometimes like this an hour work, like on sculpture, which like production costs, like over a million. And at that time, I like I started the process of doing it, I wasn’t sure that I will have the money, right. So it’s kind of these kinds of things, but you believe and that it goes it will be like that you will be able to buy it. And but like to say like, I go to death because I need to, I don’t know, buy something I

Matthew Dols 1:11:58
know, like, you’re talking about a CNC machine, you’re gonna be buying seeds. So like, my question is, this is because like my wife, and I go back and forth about this, my wife says, If I want to get like some new technology, I work and I save up the money, and then I can buy it. But sometimes in the creative fields, like it’s one of those things like you need that tech technology or that that bigger studio or that whatever it is that you need to invest some money in order to be able to create the quality thing to then turn on the money.

Jan Kalab 1:12:30
For example, this CNC machine I was talking about earlier, I find out like or, like I have an idea how to make money for it like next this month, or like in the end of month. And I want to try it like an A, which will cover something, everything was just something rather well I already like, come into this not that I want to make depth. I want to earn money to get it. Okay. No, it’s perfectly it’s it’s different mindset that because I already like I find out or I find my or I don’t know if it’s worked out, but like, I have an idea like what I what I can do that it can like I can have I can earn money and

Matthew Dols 1:13:17
basically, you know, you just have to come from America, America is all about going into debt to try and invest in things like this. Like so it’s very admirable to hear you say like, No, okay, if I want to get this machine technology, bigger studio, whatever, I have to create a plan to create the income that then would make it so I can afford this thing.

Jan Kalab 1:13:37
Yeah, like but actually, like this machine is for good price. I hope it’s, it’s real, I have to see it for us that it’s really good because it’s much cheaper. Anything else and and of course, if I have to count if I really need a machine, if it’s for this price, I need it if it’s for much higher price, I really because I have a company, they do it for me. And it’s not that expensive, right? But like I’m I’m, I’m not like fan of depths because and I never wanted like mortgage now I have mortgage and it’s okay, it’s okay. But so maybe I will I will a mortgage is the one acceptable debt in life

Matthew Dols 1:14:18
really that money, maybe a car but

Jan Kalab 1:14:21
a car. I I wish I will have enough income to be able to grow without that.

Matthew Dols 1:14:32
As good as it’s admirable. I mean, I’ve, again, I come from America where debt is perfectly acceptable. Whereas here in Europe, it seems like debt is not and people often will basically save up and plan and wait and wait and postpone getting that gratification of that that new thing that new studio or equipment to stay out of debt, which I think is great, and I hope I can learn that someday at

Jan Kalab 1:14:59
the same time. gate maybe like to gather that. In, in order like to grow your business.

Matthew Dols 1:15:07
The idea is, there’s an old thing that I was taught in business school classes, actually, which is the two you have to invest money to make money.

Jan Kalab 1:15:18
Yeah, you have to spend money to make money. Exactly. Which is true.

Matthew Dols 1:15:24
But there’s always a line where at some point, you’re going to spend too much.

Jan Kalab 1:15:28
Yes. And yes, maybe that that the most successful the universe so much, so they risk that magic if it worked out. Maybe another time still learning. But I’m, I’m thinking because this society is based on death.

Matthew Dols 1:15:45
We’re here Czech Republic.

Jan Kalab 1:15:47
Oh, yeah. I mean, like us much more about like, here. Like everybody has a mortgage. I think the companies are in depth in order like to get new technology. And they are like, working working. And it’s still difficult like this, doing this in art world, because it’s really unsure. Like, it’s a it’s a joy. Yeah, it’s a lot of unsure. So you don’t, I’m not like, I didn’t raise myself like doing that. Because you don’t know like, what happens next month, right now I feel like more like secure that it goes, that it goes in a good direction. I have like self pity constantly. But like you never know. So I prefer like to to to be able like to get a lot of money and spend a lot of money in order to progress. That’s great.

Matthew Dols 1:16:44
One actually one little last question, because he brought up the fact that you have galleries, sort of, on most continents, really. I have this belief that a lot of artists had this thought that their best market or their most appropriate market should be where they live. And I believe that’s not true. I believe that most artists best market is generally not where they live. Hmm, I could be wrong. And the podcast is the wise fool. So obviously,

Jan Kalab 1:17:17
I think the best market is where are you the most famous, or where you have the strongest gallery are?

Matthew Dols 1:17:26
Well, that’s the point is is like so like, it’s not always where you live, sometimes it’s where you have the strongest, the most effective gallery

Jan Kalab 1:17:33
what I did, like, I lost, like I had to I had the solo show here last year. But before that I didn’t show here for three years. I was kind of like I didn’t want and I was focusing because the world opened up for me. So I was like, doing exhibition everywhere else. So my, of course, my like, my, like biggest income was not from my country. So it’s like it was 70% or 60% from abroad. And 40% from from here, but now, I realized this after the show and after the book, I kind of like began to work here more for the marketing or I exhibited here there I was at this exhibition and this auction. So I, I feel like how it affect the, the inter interest of the collectors. Because like they they live in a bubble here. So they don’t, they don’t see like, I have an exhibition in New York and Paris and Berlin or whatever, in London. But once they see I’m here and they’re here, they kind of like wow, it’s it’s good. Like, they start to remember it’s like advertising, right? So. So you I think you are most successful where you are most famous or very, very, very more most common or was your name spit spitting the most?

Matthew Dols 1:19:02
And then you made a book. Also, I saw it. But you made the book. So did you publish the book? Or did somebody gallery public

Jan Kalab 1:19:15
gallery, publishable by the traffic gallery,

Matthew Dols 1:19:18
gallery, and so

Jan Kalab 1:19:19
in fact, it’s difficult. It’s difficult. So, so yeah, I published a book, but it doesn’t look good when you say you publish your book. So the gallery publish a book,

Matthew Dols 1:19:30
which is sort of the point that I was trying to get to is basically like self publishing your book is not a respectable book like it. You need to have an institution or a gallery or somebody else do it.

Jan Kalab 1:19:41
Yeah, back to the point. If you have no gallery, create your own gallery.

Matthew Dols 1:19:46
Interesting. All right. That’s good. I like it. So you have no gallery make your own. There you go. All right. Thank you very much for your time.

Jan Kalab 1:19:53
You’re welcome. Thanks for listening.

The Wise Fool is produced by Fifty14. I am your host Matthew Dols – www.matthewdols.com

All information is available in the show notes or on our website www.wisefoolpod.com