Transcript for Episode 040 – Photographer + Sculptor, Hanna Råst (Helsinki, Finland)

 

Published December 12, 2019

Full recording here: https://wisefoolpod.com/contemporary-fine-art-podcast-with-photographer-sculptor-hanna-rast-helsinki-finland/

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

 

Matthew Dols 0:12
Please pronounce your name correctly for me,

Hanna Rast 0:14
Hanna Rast

Matthew Dols 0:15
And you are from

Hanna Rast 0:16
Finland.

Matthew Dols 0:18
And you are currently in Prague part of the prom studio artists in residency?

Hanna Rast 0:24
Yep, exact for two months.

Matthew Dols 0:27
Okay, and are you ending your time now? or?

Hanna Rast 0:30
Yeah, in one week actually,

Matthew Dols 0:32
in Finland, you do I noticed on your social media is that you say, critic, writer and artist, is that correct?

Hanna Rast 0:40
Yes. Mainly I work as a visual artists, but then also I do art critics in Finland and collaborate with different fields in arts.

Matthew Dols 0:51
I’ve never been to Finland, I’ve never interacted with Finnish artists. So tell me a little bit more like just being an artist in Finland.

Hanna Rast 0:59
Okay, I guess? Well, I don’t assume that it’s easy anywhere. But in Finland, it’s very specific role in the society. And I feel that as an artist, I am like this multitasking person as well. So I work with many different kind of approach eggs and many different kinds of fields. My, myself, I do quite a lot of exhibitions. So that’s very common for me to have many exhibitions in a year. But not only in Helsinki, where I’m based, but also like on the other other parts of Finland, as well. And being an artist, for me, like it’s, it’s in some way, like a normal job, of course. So it’s a daily routine, I go to my studio and work there. But then again, like time to time I do teach, I do do workshops and different kinds of collaborations which include other artists or working with kids or adults. And that kind of interaction with other people is very crucial part, at least for me being an artists in Finland, and I think it’s, well, it’s, it’s quite common. So I know quite many colleagues of mine as well who do the same. And I think it’s very important also to have this connection to other parts of the society as well and not working or fester. I

Matthew Dols 2:23
understand. Yeah, the it’s great, sort of rejuvinating thing to sort of interact with young people younger in the in their industry in their careers, because it sort of remind you of like, oh, the beauty of not having years and years of sort of experience behind you the the naivete and the sort of exactly amazing sort of like, Oh, my God, I can do that kind of feeling. It’s nice to be reminded of that sometimes.

Hanna Rast 2:51
Yeah, yeah, exactly. And I feel that that’s like something that also grounds me somehow. So I also remember, remember that, or it reminds me that okay, this is like, also not something that I just go to my studio and work there, like just just like with my imagination, but I also, I also enjoy interacting with the other peoples as well. And I also like feel that working as an artist is like a complex thing. So it’s not just like creating your your artworks, but it’s also about the networking. And it’s also about the collaboration with the other artists as well. Like, like I said, I do quite a lot of these art critics. And I do enjoy like I work with VR composers as well. So sometimes I feel that it’s very important to also kind of reach over the visual arts, for example, and kind of get in contact with some other fields of art and culture as well.

Matthew Dols 3:54
Certainly, I’ve had a long history of musicians, associates, and dancers and all kinds of different people. So in Finland, like I’ve been just doing your tertiary sort of web searches and stuff like that, it seems like the Nordic Region funds the arts, amazingly.

Hanna Rast 4:12
Yep, that is true. And that’s actually what I’ve been discussing here in prom quite a lot. Because they say that, like in shacks, you don’t have this kind of a volume or a system of funding as what we have in in Finland, for example. So we and well, I always think that like, in some way, it’s a very good thing. But like, on the other hand, like we are very dependent of the of the funding. So we have like a lot of funding like private and state owned foundations, from which artists can apply grants to and you can have grants for working but also for different kinds of approaches or exhibition expenses or traveling expenses and so on. And with these like funding grant systems It really supports the arts and we have loads of them. So but like some, some of them are more concentrated to let’s say that like some foundations are more concentrated to fund artworks that are interested or studying environmental issues. But then again, like some other foundations are not interested, they just fund whatever they find interesting, or

Matthew Dols 5:25
that’s normal life where they’re I mean, if you look at artists residencies all over the world, you’ll find some that say, Oh, well, we only want people working with gender issues, we only want people with ecological issues, etc, etc. So me, having specialized interest is not uncommon. But yeah, but it just like, um, I looked at the budgets of some of these places, and the size of some of these grants, and like coming from America now living in Europe, they seem quite high.

Hanna Rast 5:53
Yeah, some of them are quite high. And shockingly high. I was like, but also hard to get. So it’s not like really very obvious to have those. But of course, if you are lucky, or you have a project that really captures the jury’s eye, then of course, or attention, of course, then you might get these kind of a higher grants. And of course, that’s like, very ideal situation in some way. And I actually thought about it that like, of course, having this kind of funding system, but with a lot of like, the high amount of money, I guess it’s very nice as well, that it gives you some sort of freedom in some way to experience let’s say, for three years, whatever your project is, and just go go along with it one

Matthew Dols 6:43
did for three years. Sounds amazing.

Hanna Rast 6:45
I know that I think like the biggest funding system you can have is like for five years. So it’s just a nominal, working for five years without any interruption is quite amazing. That’s a luxurious like, yeah, that’s

Matthew Dols 6:59
insane, baby. The thing is, is that what I’ve noticed is because I come from a Mac, and I didn’t even realize it while I was in America, but since I’ve left America and mindand been in Middle East, and I’ve been in Europe. In America, it’s very the art model is very much you make an art piece, you sell the art piece, you use the income from that sale to then fund your next art piece. Yeah, which is completely different than in in Europe, where it’s more about, you come up with an idea, you ask for funding, you create the project, and then the project has no necessity of sales.

Hanna Rast 7:36
Yeah, that’s, that’s the thing. And it’s like, that’s also something that I’ve been thinking, thinking about why I’ve been here that like how it shapes also the way how we do arts and what kind of art we do. So of course, like if I will be very dependent of the sales, I will maybe do very different kind of artworks or more celebrate works, maybe

Matthew Dols 7:59
I come from the background of sales. So like I keep thinking object or product kind of art. Whereas here and in this region that I’ve noticed, it’s substantially less about and as a matter of fact, even like, pure aesthetic, like beauty is almost like put down but you know, looked down upon it’s like, oh, you just make decorative work kind of thing. Yeah, not really good, profound work. Like there’s this deep conceptual basis for the work that exists in Europe because of this funding structure.

Hanna Rast 8:30
Yeah, I do love it. I when I say about that, it gives you some sort of a freedom, of course, like you are somehow bound to when you apply for these fundings, you have like a project proposal that you suggest, and of course, you are somehow bound to the ads, but like, still you have more freedom to I don’t know, maybe expand or go over the limits or do something that’s, you probably wouldn’t do if you would be more dependent on if it’s like with this question of, do I sell this work or not? So yeah, I do enjoy it. But on the other hand, of course, I’m a bit worried that we will these last, like, do we, I we’re gonna have a funding forever. So is that something that like, when the economy goes to crisis, they have to cut something and suddenly we don’t have any kind of a funding system. So then we are screwed.

Matthew Dols 9:23
So is that what so it’s a governmentally based thing? So like, theoretically, if the economy goes bad that there will be less money for the arts. Some of

Hanna Rast 9:30
them are like some of them are private, from private foundations,

Matthew Dols 9:34
but even the private foundations use the money from an investment that comes off of interest that let me say,

Hanna Rast 9:41
they are somehow bound together. But especially the state owned funding systems are those that are under a threat, I would say if if the economy would go really bad, but yeah, so it’s kind of a delicate system. So I don’t know like on the other hand, it provides you some sort of buffer Freedom. And on the other hand, it’s like a security system that you didn’t know if you’d last.

Matthew Dols 10:05
That’s a security system. Even if you’re focused on sales, if you’re focused on sales, if the economy goes bad people aren’t buying art. So like, you’re not gonna sell. So I mean, it doesn’t matter whether you’re requesting money from a grant or whether you’re relying on the economy is economy and it still affects everybody the same. Yeah. So okay. I’m fascinated, because I’ll preface this with this is the wise for podcast, so I have to look foolish at some point or another. So I’m gonna look foolish now. The, the granting system necessitates that people need to be able to write eloquently about their artwork, I am the worst at writing eloquently about my artwork. Give me some insights and ideas like what were you trained? How How do you? How do you how do you write so you can make you’re interested in residency since you’re here on residency, or a grant that you applied for in either some of the ones that you might know that you’ve got, or you didn’t get? Because my problem is this. I’ve written numerous grants over the course of my life. Some of them I’ve gotten some I haven’t gotten. But the problem is when I don’t get it, or even when I do get it, I never get any feedback saying what I did, right or what I did wrong. Yeah. So I don’t know what I So specifically, when I apply for a grant and I don’t receive it. Why did I not receive it? What didn’t you know? Was it my poor writing? Was it that it just didn’t fit the criteria? I’ve no idea. They never give feedback. So I don’t get any constructive feedback. So I can’t get better.

Hanna Rast 11:38
Yeah. So it’s always like he’s hit and miss in a way.

Matthew Dols 11:43
Now, but I’m what I’m trying to do is I’m trying to talk to people who do it well, or, you know, sort of base your career on it and see, like, what is the what’s what’s a technique that you’ve used, that you find that works effectively in some way?

Hanna Rast 11:56
Well, I guess, at least for these grants that I have got current, like after writing the applications,

Matthew Dols 12:03
Grant, you haven’t got yet. You might have learned something from,

Hanna Rast 12:08
I guess, like, of course I did. We didn’t get any feedback either. So that’s always like something that I don’t know exactly. And of course, of course, if I see the statics after receipt, receiving the declined letter that sorry, we have to inform you that you didn’t get the grant this year. Of course, like they also usually informed the static statistics. So they tell you, like let’s say 1000 people applied, and we only gave the grant for five, so then, you know, like, okay, it was just like,

Matthew Dols 12:39
very competitive.

Hanna Rast 12:40
Yeah. And you just like, this time, you were unlucky. So it was just like, people were going through a lot of applications, and Indian decided to choose someone else. So that’s also something that’s, I do agree that of course, even if I do the best with my writing, it still might not work.

Matthew Dols 13:02
But like, I’ve heard stories from other people that basically they say, you should apply for a grant three times. And you’ll probably get it on the third time because like, there is a little bit of a they, they want to see your tenacity, they want to see that you really believe that you fly again, you apply again and again. And like, like I’ve heard stories about people basically saying, you never get a grant on the first application that you get it on the second or the third or the fourth application,

Hanna Rast 13:29
I probably could agree with that, that sometimes I feel that you have to write it, like you notice, keep my name on the table. So they get it over and over again. And they like okay, like, now we see it again, that’s

Matthew Dols 13:42
this person they see the project getting more interested in

Hanna Rast 13:46
prison is like where we devoted to do the project or whatever, in Finland, I know that they do change the jury, like not maybe every year, but like in some points. So it’s also very common to like maybe once a year you have a jury that likes your work and that second year they change the jury and they don’t like your work at all and they decide that’s okay, let’s not give a grant for this artist, but with the ones that I have succeeded I have felt that I have had like a very clear idea. And very kind of like a long texts. For example, I tried to keep it short. I tried to keep it very accurate and like kind of informative. So I I’m not like preferring to tell any stories like about not that much. I feel more like just like get straight to the points because I know that they have 1000s of applications so they don’t have time to go through like five pages long. project proposal. Of course, if it’s four or five years, maybe then that’s different, but usually proposed for one year, then I feel it’s better to keep it short and very informative.

Matthew Dols 15:03
Okay, so but now in America, we it’s funny, I was talking with somebody recently about this. And they made a criticism of like American writing versus European writing, that the styles in and of themselves are very different. In America weird. I don’t know if we’re taught or if we just naturally do it. But we’re very sort of effusive of like, I’m great, I’m fabulous. And this is why, whereas here in Europe, it’s more like, I want to do XYZ. And these are the things and this is the philosophy and this is the concept. Yeah. Facts. Yeah. less less of like, I’m grades. And this is sort of less ego and more, just just lay out the nuts and bolts of sort of what the you want to be done and not so much flowery, not so much sort of arrogance and egotistical kind of statements. Yeah, that sounds about right.

Hanna Rast 15:55
Yeah, I would say that’s definitely,

Matthew Dols 15:59
like when you write your grants, or any any sort of things, like do you? It’s a subtle little thing, but like, do you use like I, me and mine? Or do you talk about yourself sort of more as a concept? It’s little tiny things. I know.

Hanna Rast 16:12
I do say I mean, I or I do, I do say like I’m proposing this project, and like the background for it was decent, decent ease, and how I’m going to execute it. But like, I guess the eye is more on the background. So I put forward the idea of this is the project. And this is the works that I do and like they should somehow talk instead of me in some way.

Matthew Dols 16:38
And you write your own grants, you don’t hire grant writers, you don’t get curators to help you anything like this.

Hanna Rast 16:44
No, I wrote my own grants. Of course, I sometimes ask my colleagues or some other people, people’s opinions. So I sometimes ask for help, like, Hey, can you read it through and comments about it? Like, do you see that like, it’s it goes over the top or a little bit off topic. So I should just make it more compact somehow. But yeah, I do like to mainly write my own grant applications.

Matthew Dols 17:14
Part of my thing about the idea of this podcast is that oftentimes the arts becomes this sort of objects be worshiped, and all this kind of stuff, but also the people in the process is also very important. What I really love about this podcast is that like, it gives, artists will and gallery owners and curators and all these other people that never technically like get heard. They get sound bites, they get quotes, they get things like this, but but now through the act of podcasts, you get to hear the inflections of his voice, the sense of humor, the the enthusiasm that you wouldn’t get, like in a written text or something like this. So I really enjoy that aspect of being able to basically what I’m what I’m sort of calling like, giving artists voice Yeah, like literally, because like, I have no idea what Picasso sounds like, you know, it’s true. Yeah, but now, with, with all the technologies these days, you know, coming future generations are gonna have these great records of what the artists sound like, and their enthusiasm and their interest and their sense of humor and their laugh and the things that you could never get by just looking at their art or

Hanna Rast 18:25
reading the text from them or stuff like that. Yeah, for sure. I feel it’s very, an I do enjoy as well, for listening podcast about art, because I feel that it’s quite important. And it’s something that you you listen, while you are traveling, like let’s say in a tram, or Metro us or somewhere, and then you have like, you absorb it in a completely different way, what the artist is saying, and also like the intonations and like policies and stuff like that, as well. So I feel it’s very, very different kind of approach and very interesting approach to have podcasts and voice records instead of just like reading text, or seeing the artworks

Matthew Dols 19:08
or even video because, like me, I believe I have a beautiful voice for radio, he kind of like broadcasts, but I think I have a horrible look like I would look like a YouTube channel would not do me any justice. But being able to do for radio is great because I think I am articulate and these kinds of things, but I’m not beautiful, you know, like, I’m not a model. And I’m not going to be like showing like this and so and so’s artwork. And that’s kind of boring in some ways, because then it becomes more about the visual content,

Hanna Rast 19:43
actually, you start to look at the people like the expressions on the face and like, what’s the background what they already see swearing and so on. So you don’t do that

Matthew Dols 19:51
all the time. Yeah, I’m like, why would she wear those earrings? What was she thinking? What is going on? Yeah, it’s horrible. I know. I do it all the time. When I’m watching. videos. Yeah, that’s unfortunate. But yeah. All right back to your life. So you’re currently on a residency Do you do lots of residency or just a few?

Hanna Rast 20:13
Well, it’s not like rare, but I don’t do then like even every year, but last year, I was in, in a residency in Spain, and a few years back in Berlin, so I have done for you, but like, not like every year, but I think after after prom, I want to do more, I feel that I have really enjoyed my time, time here. And the residency is before I have been shorter just for one month. And this has been two months, which I feel it’s, it makes a big difference. It does. And so at least three months or even longer time would be actually even better, because I feel that during that time, you actually have time to settle down to the place. And for example, in here, for for the first month, I just read through the theory, I was just like, developing my ideas, writing down them and says like, maybe at the or in the end of the September, I started to like to the actual visual works. So I feel that it was very important actually to have this lead time. Before working. Of course, like if you have a project that you have started before, and you can take everything gets used to to residency and just like create one part there and then continue when you go back home, then it’s again, different. But on the other hand, I feel like two months at least it’s it’s way more better.

Matthew Dols 21:35
Oh, sure. I mean, the the three things that we all want is time, money. And time is time, money, time and money. That’s don’t two things. That’s what we want. We you know, it’s like when you can go on a residency, you have the space, the time to just devote to your, whatever creative thing you that you’re doing, whether it’s theory or practice that we can’t do when we have the stress of our daily lives sort of weighing over us. It’s that that separation of time is fabulous.

Hanna Rast 22:07
Exactly. And I feel like this cut out from your every like all your daily life it back home. So it cuts you off from these like, of course, I don’t want to say pruden of seeing friends, I love seeing my friends. But then again, like you have a different kind of schedule. So you are seeing your parents and your relatedness and your friends and you have like different routines that you do. So it’s also a pause and cuts to that as well, which I do actually appreciate because then it allows me to just concentrate fully, to these ideas and projects that I want you to develop. And in here I have realized that like it had, it has moved me like big steps forward with my thinking and with my artistic processes. Well, I

Matthew Dols 22:52
mean, there’s a I just recently saw a documentary about Bill Gates where like Bill Gates will literally take one week off and go to a cabin in the middle of nowhere with a suitcase full of books, and just study and read and philosophize basically for one dedicated week, every year. And then he comes back sort of refreshed with new ideas and ready to go, there is something about that ability to focus with as minimal amount of distractions as possible that is somewhat necessary in the creative industries that is less common these days naturally, like in older times, you know, you could, artists could afford to just be artists and not have to do other jobs, or just do one sort of vein of creativity, and not have to do three to five different things to make enough money to whatever they need to do. But it seems like these days, it’s becoming more and more prevalent that we have less designated, devoted time available to us that residencies end up being the great balancing act on that, for sure.

Hanna Rast 23:59
And I feel, of course, like I feel that nowadays, like working as an artist and in the art field is it has become more fragmented. So you have a lot of like different kinds of little jobs here and there that you do and you try to like multitask and handle all that and it takes quite a lot of capacity from your thoughts to actually handle that. And I feel that, like it’s very crucial and important to have these like moments of nothingness that you have just moments like even to do nothing or it’s just like, because like these ideas strangely they develop when you have this like freedom free time and this kind of like time that you don’t you know that you have to be somewhere at five or you know that you don’t have anything coming up during that day. So it’s very important to have this like it’s infinite we would say to your county, it’s like that you keep your car on but you don’t move with it. So it’s just like this moment when you just stay still, but still, you’re active.

Matthew Dols 25:04
Yeah, I mean, those are in every philosophy of the world religions even talk about that sort of the stillness, the quietness, kind of finding that peace. It’s very hard these days. I mean, I like Personally, I find I get my most inspiration one of two times when I’m either extremely busy, so busy that like, just like ideas, just keep whizzing through my mind, or the absolute, like, I have absolutely nothing on my plate. And suddenly I’m struck with something kind of thing or I’m inspired, do something I’d never done before. I’m interested in going outside my comfort zone kind of thing. modern society makes it very difficult to find those peaceful times.

Hanna Rast 25:44
Yeah, and I feel that it’s harder and harder to kind of, for him kind of to find like, like reasons or find excuses for having these because like, it feels like society and everything everyday, like the world is demanding you to be like the active in a different way. So they don’t count this kind of stillness as activity. They think that you are just lazy.

Matthew Dols 26:12
My wife works in like accounting, she’s like full on like, you go to work, you do your job, you know, you come home and you relax kind of thing. And she totally doesn’t understand my lifestyle at all. She’s She’s like, Well, you did nothing all that? And I’m like, No, no, I did a lot all day. I just didn’t produce anything today.

Hanna Rast 26:33
But it will come later. That’s right. But But

Matthew Dols 26:35
I had to lay the groundwork for the plan to then do this other thing in the future kind of thing. But yeah, the non creative people have very difficult times with understanding the lifestyle of creative people.

Hanna Rast 26:49
Yes, for sure. And I feel that also one very interesting thing, what actually, my painter friend wrote about was when she was asked to do an article about materials, and she said that, like for her the most important tool and material is not like brushes, or paints, but it’s actually the working space, or the studio itself. And I was like, God, that’s, that’s so true. It’s very important to have like a dedicated space for develop your ideas. And it’s kind of a safe space where you can go and even to sleep if you feel like it’s so it’s kind of a space where you can do a lot or you can do nothing. And then

Matthew Dols 27:31
like a non judgmental space, like where literally you can be the biggest slob or the most OCD or whatever it is that makes you happy. Exactly, you can then just be free to be as creative as you want.

Hanna Rast 27:44
Yes. And I think as an artist, we all been there that we have worked in, like we have had a studio, like let’s say, in a corner of our living rooms. And that’s not like the best place to have it. So it’s after moving out from working, working at home to a proper studio, I have realized that that’s the best thing or a decision that I have done since I since I moved there. And it’s been a long time ago. But still I do kind of have value. This moment when I realized that I needed to have a space for myself and space for my thoughts and for my

Matthew Dols 28:18
creation. Now are you the kind of person like because I know different artists that do different Are you the kind of person that would go into the studio, or I’ll give a perfect example, I have a friend, Sean Richards in the United States, he had this thing where he went to his studio at 9am every day. And he worked until 5pm, where he didn’t necessarily work. But he was in his studio doing something in his studio from 9am to 5pm. Every day, and then when he went home, he did nothing creative, nothing artistic, whatever he just did the rest of his life. Whereas other many other artists do where they only go in the studio when inspired.

Hanna Rast 28:54
I go to the studio almost every day inspired or not, but maybe not at nine between 10 and 11. And then I work a little bit more late. But I do go there even if I sometimes see like, Oh, I’m so frustrated, like I don’t feel inspired at all, why should I go there like have like, do the effort of traveling there and so on. But I feel that on the other hand, like sometimes I have thanked myself after going there and I have realized like this is exactly what I need that I have to go there. And I have to spend time in the studio because otherwise I just like procrastinate at home and do something else. So in a way I feel I’m even if I don’t do anything at the studio, it’s important to go there because it’s still somehow progressing the thoughts and the ideas I have.

Matthew Dols 29:46
So in Finland, do you have to do like do other work for income or do you get enough income from your art to live and have a studio and make work

Hanna Rast 30:00
Some years I have enough income to just do my own arts and some years now. So during those years I do teaching more. But then again, during other other years, I don’t have to. So it’s kind of an on off balance, that sometimes I have more freedom just to do my own arts and some other PR use now. And it’s Yeah, it’s like, also dependent of the branding or the funding system as well. So if I get a grant for one year, of course, I don’t have to do anything else. But again, like if I don’t have a grant, then I have to combine and get the income from more resources. Yeah, I feel that it’s very interesting actually, how the material of or photography is changing nowadays, because like you said that like, earlier, we were just having these like documents of printed on four by five, large four minutes. And like having them like holding them like super pressures.

Matthew Dols 31:00
I still treat them precious. Yeah, they are kept in sleeves in a sealed binder in a box with, with with like silica to make sure there’s no mold like me, I treat my negatives, even though I haven’t touched my negatives in 20 years, I still treat them like they’re vicious.

Hanna Rast 31:16
But I think that has changed somehow lately in photography. And for me, it was like a very big breaking point, I do use a lot of photographic material as a base for my works. But for me, it was like a big relief to realize that I don’t have to dress you them or kind of value them in a in a way that I did before. So for me, like now I just enjoy when I can just rip and cuts and destroy the photographic material somehow. And I feel that that’s also very interesting, where contemporary photography is going that people are expanding the material a lot learn it, and experimenting with it a lot. I feel Of course, maybe that of course, that has been something that has been done before as well in some forums, but now I feel that it’s just like, it has taken like enormous steps to something completely different.

Matthew Dols 32:07
Right? So like, I’ve looked at some of your works that you do you blend together photographs with concrete and other sorts of materials like this. So where, you know, sort of basically it’s like how did you come to I’m a huge fan of materials and using interesting blends of materials. So the question would be like, how do you come to taking something like sort of almost a shimmer or like a photograph and then putting it with something like concrete?

Hanna Rast 32:36
That’s a nice good question. Actually, I felt like they are like so different materials concrete is like so hard and so this kind of a rough material and then again I feel the photographs are so delicate and thin as well. So I felt that it was very interesting to combine these two somehow because they are like almost opposites to each other but then again like I feel that in photography as well in concrete as the material you brought in both you have like some weird weird depth or weird kind of layer Enos that I wanted to use so even in concrete you can have cracks and you can create like some sort of like depth in it and then again like just like dipping photograph inside I felt it kind of created some nice idea of a crack in a history but like in a sealed way so for concrete is more material that also like seals things in it. But then again, photography is more something I don’t know flexible or fluid in some weird way.

Matthew Dols 33:48
So are you using your own images? Or do you use like found images?

Hanna Rast 33:53
Both? I use images from my family albums, but also found images from the flea markets.

Matthew Dols 34:01
Okay, wait, I have this pet peeve of mine. I’m fascinated by this. When you say use your own family photos. Are you literally using the originals? Or are you scanning them and reprinting them

Hanna Rast 34:12
and scanning and reprinting? Okay,

Matthew Dols 34:13
good? No, I’m fine with that because I I hate when I hear of some artists that like used the original only family heirloom photograph. I’m like, are you like come on? Are you serious? Really big as a family heirloom you don’t use that. As much as I might love your artwork. You don’t use the original I find that horrible when people do that.

Hanna Rast 34:35
Yeah, it’s it’s quite it’s quite rough distance to do that. I feel that also because usually the family family images are like in the format of 10 by 15 centimeters. So they are quite a short or like a small small size to use as well. So I feel that with the scanning You can, of course like play with the dimensions and the size. So you can actually like just like no large image since just like us, little part of it, and so on. So I feel it gives me more flexibility to work as well if I don’t use the originals. But it’s interesting Actually, I was listening one podcast from Finland. And there were like two girls talking about this time of social media and use of images during that time,

Matthew Dols 35:20
which is a great topic, please go for

Hanna Rast 35:23
I know. And it was very interesting that the other girl in this podcast actually said that if she would lose, or all her images, she would be just relieved. Like, if she would just lose everything from her hard drives and phones, she would be just happy. And I don’t know, I felt somehow very, I don’t know, lights or reliefs with this kind of answer. I don’t know, for some reason I kind of agreed, of course, I would be in shock for it for moments. But then again, like during the time of social media, I feel we have so enormous amount of images in our hands and in our on our phones and on our clouds and wherever and we never go through them. So I don’t know if I would even miss them. But it’s the same with this family photos actually, that we just like my parents storage them in the boxes that no one ever goes through, although I do when I want to use them for my artworks. But like, on the other hand, we never, we never have like, we never go through them.

Matthew Dols 36:25
My parents have bookcases, one book except photo albums and shoe boxes and all kinds of stuff that have not been looked at in a decade.

Hanna Rast 36:35
And it’s even like a burden, or kind of a terrifying idea. If someone is saying, oh, let’s go through these photo albums together. And it’s like, no, oh, no,

Matthew Dols 36:45
I love doing that. But I like that kind of stuff. I’m odd that way. I know. It’s fine. Yeah, when I was younger, I used to have lots of prints. Because I would be in the darkroom, we would make tons of prints of stuff. And I used to literally have a bonfire, like every couple years where I would just burn off all the knots ready for gallery not ready for presentation to the world kind of prints. And I would just, you know, cleanse myself of them and start again, basically, like, I’ve often had the concern of the what happens if there’s a fire and you lose everything? Yeah. And the thing I always just come to is just basically, well start again, like I mean, losing the material stuff. So like your images on social media and all this stuff. Like it’s just what you did, but you can always make more.

Hanna Rast 37:34
Yeah, exactly. Okay. Oh, it started again. And, of course, if I would lose the files of my artworks, I will be very, that would be quite devastating. But then again, I feel that okay. That’s what Dropbox is

Matthew Dols 37:49
there for.

Hanna Rast 37:50
Yeah. And I would feel that okay, if I would lose? Well, of course, I have multiple, multiple copies of them. But still, it would be like, if I would lose all of them, then I would just think it as a new start.

Matthew Dols 38:03
Yeah, I mean, it would suck. I would be very sad for sure. Sure. But on the other hand, it’s a sort of like clean slate start again.

Hanna Rast 38:11
Yeah, exactly. So I don’t know, I feel that we shouldn’t be too attached to images. Although they are like super important. I still feel that you are you should also be able to let go of them. So for me this kind of a relation, because I felt that before images were more dear and more kind of a something that I wouldn’t never definitely let go. So

Matthew Dols 38:35
now put them in locker.

Hanna Rast 38:37
Yeah.

Matthew Dols 38:38
They were very precious at a certain time.

Hanna Rast 38:40
Like now I feel it’s more like I’m it’s okay for me to let them go as well, which is kind of a relief.

Matthew Dols 38:48
Sure. What now, social media. Do you use it? Is it beneficial for you? Was it distracting for you? Like, what’s your relationship with social media?

Hanna Rast 39:00
It’s both. I feel it’s beneficial, but it’s definitely they distract distraction as well.

Matthew Dols 39:05
I mean, we connected through Instagram. Yeah. There are some benefits for sure.

Hanna Rast 39:09
Yeah. Yeah. So you get like I get collaborations I get like contacts through social media. But also, of course, during the moments when I feel not inspired or uninspired, and I’m procrastinating I get very easily distracted of social media, of course. So during those times, I do hope that I wouldn’t have it. But on the other hand, I feel it’s just like one extra extra extension to promote my arts.

Matthew Dols 39:38
Right. So then that is the question is like so how do you choose to use it because of course everybody uses it in their own way. So how do you choose to use it? How much time energy thought he put into it? What’s your what’s your, what’s your hopeful expectation or your hope that you want from it?

Hanna Rast 39:57
I guess like I do. Hope To get more connected, and like create networks of quiz, like, because of the location of Finland, I don’t have a chance to travel in Europe all the time, we are like behind a little part of the sea. And then it makes it a bit more difficult. So I feel that through social media, it’s more easy to find new, interesting artists, interesting creators in interesting galleries or these spaces. And through that, I feel it’s more easier to get connected. And I wouldn’t hesitate if I would find what actually I have found very few very interesting spaces. So through social media, so I wouldn’t hesitate in some point to contact them and say, like, Hey, I’m very interested of your space. And would it be possible to make maybe make a show there? Or do you have open calls or so on. So I do use it as a tool for to, like process or kind of a Connect professionally, mainly, and that’s what I do hope to do even even more, I think, so I use it less for personal. Of course, it’s like, doing art is somehow always personal. So if I do if I’m in Prague, and I see a nice exhibition, it’s part of my profession to post something about it. But it’s also part of my personality to post something about it, because I do like it. So yeah. It’s like a fine line or thin line.

Matthew Dols 41:30
It’s very difficult. It’s I mean, I even with this, this podcast, I’m always sort of wondering like, how much should I be sharing on social media? How much is not necessary? Because like, if I post too many images about sort of things that aren’t relevant, then is it really about the podcast anymore? Or is it about the exhibitions, I go see, and this is like, I waffle on it constantly.

Hanna Rast 41:53
But for that, I feel Instagram is quite nice, because you have the opportunity to use the Insta stories. So I feel that maybe that is now for me more this kind of a personal channel because it stays there only for 24 hours. Exactly. So that’s quite a nice tool that I can have for posting something like oh, I just found a beautiful color colored wall or I found at night, there’s like a beautiful day and nice rays of light, which I wanted to photograph. So I feel that’s more personal. But that’s also something that I’ve been imposed on my like Instagram feed because I feel that that would be like, again, a bit different from the overall portfolio I have there.

Matthew Dols 42:37
Right. Okay, so you use it more as a portfolio right now? Yeah. Okay. You mentioned curators how Now, coming from America again, like I’m, you know, again, I’m the wise fool here. So I come here with a certain amount of knowledge, but a certain amount of stupidity. curators are incredibly important in Europe, like they are, I’m learning they are the gatekeepers of everything,

Hanna Rast 43:03
certainly. And I feel that curators are the ones that like have, like they are this kind of link between the buyers or galleries or collectors and the artists. So they are these kind of like you said, exactly the gatekeepers that can really make a change to your career or help you but I also feel that they are there for for having the conversations, for example, with the artists. So they are also there to give like different point of view or and that’s actually something that I do hope to do more, to collaborate with the curators. And hopefully, I have a chance to do that in the future more that I can not like in a way that oh, I have to get into some exhibition, but in a way that I could maybe invite them to my studio and just have a talk with my artists, about my arts. And just continue from that.

Matthew Dols 43:55
Yeah, that that whole idea of like, of coming from America, capitalist society, all this kind of stuff. Totally a foreign idea of like, just like invite a curator over and you can have some tea, talk about your art, like, we would never do that in America as a general whole. Maybe there are people that do it, but I’m not, I was not raised to do that. Because your time is money kind of thing. And so like the amount of time that they’re coming and giving you somehow you should pay for it or something like this. And, and but but here, it’s very normal. It’s very, I mean, I’ve been speaking with curators a lot and they’re all like, yeah, we go to visits and studios, and that’s part of our job. Yeah, just knowing the different artists that exist, making connections try and see like, what’s common what’s, what’s some what’s going on, except temporarily among different artists. So they just need to keep up with what’s out there.

Hanna Rast 44:50
Yeah, and see, it seems like they have to do quite a lot of this like non paid field work where they just have to kind of get the idea of what going on and meet the artist and find you already and maybe like builds, like collaboration or collection in your mind that you could have, like propose an exhibition to or I don’t know, it’s just like very complex thing I feel being a curator as well.

Matthew Dols 45:16
Well, it’s interesting too, because then there’s a certain sense of responsibility on the artists to not just maintain but to grow those relationships. So like, non Oh, so we have to a make beautiful art be somehow get it funded or thing. And then we also have to be sure to build continually build relationships that are, that are a difficult thing, because there’s a fine line. It’s a it’s partly a business relationship, partly a personal relationship, like you have to like the person. But it’s also a business, there are going to be business transactions that

Hanna Rast 45:55
can be to to friends based. Yeah, in some way,

Matthew Dols 45:59
it becomes very difficult because you could easily fall into being too business or too friendly. And and then the relationship doesn’t work. That’s a difficult balance to ride.

Hanna Rast 46:12
Yeah, I guess like the key is to be like, very straight and honest. So I guess you have to, like, I get, I guess, like, if you are too friends, or too friendly, it might be that like, then like, it doesn’t develop in a way you wanted or, like maybe the curator promises something that never happened. So I guess like you have to be quite strict with these kind of rules. That’s how it goes. So we have to keep our promises and so on. But yeah, I guess like in Finland, we have curators, but it’s more kind of weird, or a thin line between the gallerist and curator. So we have a lot of galleries as well who do visits to artistic studios as well. And I feel that that’s something that maybe in Finland is still developing that you have like that you have like a like a very separate group of creators. So I feel that sometimes creators are doing quite a lot of the jobs for the galleries as well or the other way around.

Matthew Dols 47:17
I know I never even asked Are you represented by a gallery?

Hanna Rast 47:20
No, I’m not.

Matthew Dols 47:21
Okay, do you know, this is something that I’m always interested or that I’ve noticed is different than my perception? What is it you want out of your artistic life? Like what is your your life aspirations and expectations?

Hanna Rast 47:40
I guess, I never, I never imagined myself of being this, like big superstar artists. So I feel that for me, being able to do the things that I enjoy, and keep me developing my art and my, my ideas and my personality, even I think it’s somehow important to it’s important, like, my expectations are that if I can do those things, I would be more than happy and do make maybe make a living out of it. But like, I don’t require big amounts of money every month, I require money that like enough money that I can survive with it, and buy

Matthew Dols 48:27
all your art materials.

Hanna Rast 48:29
Exactly. But like it doesn’t have to go over over that balance that much. So I can survive with many, quite little. So I feel that at the moment, we

Matthew Dols 48:40
all as we get older life gets more expensive.

Hanna Rast 48:43
Exactly.

Matthew Dols 48:44
Well, I know what your age and I’m not gonna ask so

Hanna Rast 48:47
yeah. But yeah, I feel that like maybe, for me, the crucial part is to be able to keep developing. So I feel that like being an artist and like it’s it’s part of like a life growing process that you just want to learn more about yourself and more about the world and more about the topics you are interested in a new field. It’s just like this kind of addicting all the time deeper and deeper. Do these topics that you are interested in. And I feel that if if I could do something like that, and continue doing something like that and make somehow a living out of it, I will be more than happy. I don’t expect to be a world known famous artist, I expect myself to be somehow an artist who can keep my freedom in some way to grow and develop.

Matthew Dols 49:45
As a photographer, I was trained as a photographer, we were taught to work in a series. So like you do, either set amount of time or a set amount of images that create a portfolio and that’s your sort of little series and then you put that series out into the public. It was sort of I feel like and maybe it’s because I’m getting away from photography and a purist photography, and I’m getting more into multimedia and other things like this, that there’s a less of an interest in that, in the rest of the arts world is there seems to be it’s, you can make a couple things. And then you can sort of change to do a couple of different things as long as, as long as there’s a common thread that goes through we’ll say conceptually, the the actual subject matter, the volume of the portfolio, let’s say is, you know, so the sheer quantity of the work whatever is almost irrelevant, as long as there’s a thread that sci fi says, made by the same person, all made by the same mind kind of thing, where and that’s the complete opposite of everything. I was trained as a photographer. Yeah. Consistency, cohesiveness, like all these things that we the words that we use in photography, are completely not true in the rest of the art world these days.

Hanna Rast 51:03
Yeah. And I feel that even when I studied in Helsinki, in the University of Art and Design, I felt that like in photography, it was very common to do series, like this series was the thing that you do. And lately, a lot of us have Kristen that like, do we have to produce series anymore, can we just produce like separate single artworks, which is, and then if you need to, you can put them together for a show, and then you can, again, separate them. So I kind of like the idea that you didn’t have to actually produce series anymore, that it can be like something again, like more flexible, and you can kind of tear it down to pieces and put to put together in a different way, and so on. And like you said that I feel, in contemporary art, it’s more important to have like some sort of a thread thread, but like, or some sort of a like connection between artworks. But it’s, it doesn’t have to be like a coherent series, or it doesn’t have to

Matthew Dols 52:06
be like, it could be just a concept. But exactly, you know, like yours is like, like deconstruction and and sort of maybe permanence and impermanence and the balancing of those. How do you express that in different ways?

Hanna Rast 52:19
Exactly. And I feel that with me, it’s very, like the themes and ideas behind them are the thread. So it’s more about the history, layers of history and layers of time, and layers of memory as well. So it’s kind of a construction, again, these new, new pieces together and maybe creating something new or kind of playing with this kind of visibility and invincibility as well. But they are all tangled together. For sure.

Matthew Dols 52:47
Oddly enough, I’ve been incredibly inspired by talking to you, I now have this new idea that I’m going to try and play with, because of the things you’ve said that I’m like, Yes, that’s a great idea that I had not thought of before.

Hanna Rast 52:58
Perfect.

Matthew Dols 53:00
Yeah, that’s all I need more ideas. I’ve got more than enough ideas, ideas are not my problem. They mean that

Hanna Rast 53:07
executing them.

Matthew Dols 53:09
executing them is not my problem. exhibiting them as funding them as my problem. Potentially selling them as oftentimes the problem as well. I mean, creative people, I find there’s no shortage of creativity, you know, so like, we all have ideas, basically, like, if somebody were to come to you and say, here’s a million euros, now make me something. No, artists would be like, I have no idea what to do. That’s true. So it’s not about our issue of making art is not about not being able to make art or come up with a creative idea or come up with a process or technique or materials. It’s about finding the time and the money and the space to be able to have the freedom to just say, this is the thing that I want to make.

Hanna Rast 53:58
Yeah, exactly. And I feel that, like, we can adapt quite easily to different kinds of situations. So let’s say you said you just said like someone offers you like 1 million, we can adapt to that. So of course, maybe we would do something that would be good. Exactly.

Matthew Dols 54:15
I’m working in Brahms all of a sudden,

Hanna Rast 54:17
exactly. Of course, like, on the other hand, I could be something different. Like if you have 100 euros, then you adapt again and you do something smaller or more. Something that you don’t need to have like a lot of budget production for it.

Matthew Dols 54:34
Oh, I found that. I mean, over the course of my life I’ve gone from no studio to small studio to massive studio to small studio, and it’s very fascinating how your budget and your space dictate the scale is tutorials of your work.

Hanna Rast 54:52
It is true actually my first studio I want to tell the story was in a bunker, and it was underground like

Matthew Dols 54:58
a military bunker.

Hanna Rast 55:00
Like a bunker for, like a bombing bomb shelter. And like it was under under a house in Helsinki. And so you went downstairs underground. And there was like this bit like one very big, heavy metal door that you have to had to close and you lost a theatrical,

Matthew Dols 55:19
I love it.

Hanna Rast 55:21
And you lost or all these signals from your phone, so you couldn’t use your phone there. And it’s like it was kind of it was kind of a place that if someone would have bumped the house above to the grounds, there was like a little hatch that you could grow into and just like pop out from the other side of the street. So there was like a second escape. But why being in a bunker. I didn’t produce much. And I say that sounds really

Matthew Dols 55:51
cool, though.

Hanna Rast 55:53
But it was very demanding and hard for creativity, or at least for my creativity. Show me

Matthew Dols 55:59
You’ve got no light, you’re oppressive. Basically, you’re underground. You’re in this dark, dank place. I mean, I

Hanna Rast 56:06
your phone doesn’t work.

Matthew Dols 56:08
That sounds great. Actually, I like the idea.

Hanna Rast 56:11
But that’s a plus. Yeah,

Matthew Dols 56:12
it does happen. But yeah, but so that was not advantageous for you.

Hanna Rast 56:17
No, it wasn’t inspiring for me at all. And I feel that I like the work that I produced were somehow very thin and like almost like invisible in some way. And kind of tense as well that I felt I like in the end, I wasn’t so happy with many of the words that I produced there. Because I felt that I there was just like some big mental pressure for being in this bunker that it kind of just like, just like somehow, my inspiration and creativity escaped from maybe from the hatch. But after that, I moved to this big studio shared with two painters. And then like we had like massive lights, massive big windows with beautiful lights and like very high ceilings. And I felt like there was like a point where I started to produce again, like very different kinds of artworks. And that really kind of inspired me. So after that, I realized like, Okay, I’m very dependent on light.

Matthew Dols 57:17
None of us are I mean, we’re dependent. I mean, it’s like, you go back through history, and I’ll use Picasso again, like he has blue period. And then he had his other VM, gray periods, other periods like this. That’s like different aspects of their life, that something was going on in their life that somehow gave them some inspiration, whether it be a studio, or a relationship, or a lack of relationship, or money, or no money or whatever. Much of the artists output, and they’re sort of expression that’s going on in their life is oftentimes a reflection of whatever is going on in their life, you know,

Hanna Rast 57:51
yeah, and it’s very interesting. But also, like, I talked with my one friend of mine, I feel because I went through, like big, long periods, periods of depression. And I felt that after like, recovering from those, I’ve been able to deal with those like moments of depression. But then again, like, during the time, when I was depressed, I couldn’t imagine like dealing with the depression. So I was doing completely opposite. So I tried to use a lot of colors and, like, tried to do like something again, completely, like opposite for it. So it’s funny as well, that with some moments of your life, you cannot do it when you are in it. But when you are out of it, it’s more easier to handle them or I can deal with them.

Matthew Dols 58:37
Sure. I mean, I I can’t tell you how many times like, when I was in school, I used to like I remember getting up in front of class. And I’d be like, Oh, this work is about blabbity blabbity, blah, whatever bullshit art speak, I just said. And then 10 or 15 years later, I look back at that work. And I’m like, okay, that work was not about all that bullshit that I said it was about this other thing or this issue or this, whatever that was going on in my life that I didn’t have time and distance and perspective on to really understand why I made that. And this is where it goes back to the whole writing of artists statements, kind of things like, oftentimes, I don’t know why I’m making what I’m making until I have time and distance. Yeah, to look back at it and say, That’s why I made this, this is what was going on in my life or this is what I was having issues with or fearful of or whatever. And I find it very difficult because this idea of residency and granting, basically, it works under the structure of being able to foresee what you’re going to be working on. And I can’t do that I’m more of a retroactive like I will produce a thing. And then you see and then I see why I did it five years later. But the idea of writing for grants and residency stuff is basically going I foresee that I’m going to be depressed. And I’m going to be doing this very dark work about this issue of depression. I don’t know that I’m going to or I’m going to be very happy. And I’m going to do very colorful work to express this. I have no fucking clue what I’m going to be. I mean, a lot of times these grants and these residences are a year two years out, like, Yeah, I don’t know where I’m gonna be tomorrow. Like, I don’t even know what kind of mood I’m gonna wake up with tomorrow, why how could I possibly foresee what I’m going to be inspired by or what mood I’m going to be in or how I’m going to work a year or two years out. And that’s why writing grants and residences very difficult for me,

Hanna Rast 1:00:39
I guess, like for me, it always helps that I can somehow reflect through the things that I have done during the past. And I do think to the things that I have written about before, and then I can somehow extend that but like, in enough loose way that I have the freedom to maybe, of course, if I go to your residency, and I’m like, extremely happy, or maybe I just lost someone, and then I’m extremely sad. So that will for sure affect me. But then I still have like this freedom or kind of a free space to work with it. So it’s still like kind of the outcome. Like it’s not too strict, restricted. So it’s still like, kind of it has the flexibility to be whatever it will lead me to.

Matthew Dols 1:01:26
I’m still learning. You know, I’m 46 years old, and I’m still learning all this stuff. You’re not 46

Hanna Rast 1:01:33
and not 46. I’m still learning.

Matthew Dols 1:01:35
You were so much younger than me. You are not 46 sure, scared,

Hanna Rast 1:01:40
but I’m in the same level that I’m I’m learning. I’m still learning.

Matthew Dols 1:01:45
We all are I hope,

Hanna Rast 1:01:47
I mean, till the end. I think I do hope. Yeah,

Matthew Dols 1:01:51
I always joke to my wife, I keep telling she’s like, She’s like, oh, you’re someday you’re going to retire and blah, blah, blah. And I’m like, What is this retire thing you speak of? Like, I have no intention of retiring. I want to die in my studio or in the classroom. That’s where I’m gonna die. Like, I don’t I don’t want to retire. I have no, it’s interesting. Like, society sort of has this idea of like, Oh, you work from this to this period. And then you go into retirement and even

Hanna Rast 1:02:20
then you like, do whatever you wanted to do. And

Matthew Dols 1:02:24
but I’m like, what, but I’m doing what I want to do now. Yeah,

Hanna Rast 1:02:26
exactly. So like, I’m not

Matthew Dols 1:02:28
waiting for retirement because I had this friend of mine, Caroline bots, she was fabulous lady, great lady. She had kids, she was baptism community, livid pretty full life and all this. And then she got to the end, she built this great little company. And then she sold her company. And she said, Okay, great. I’m going to retire. I’m going to spend time with kids. I’m going to travel. She got diagnosed with cancer and was dead six months later.

Hanna Rast 1:02:53
But that’s exactly like you never know, like, we might be dead tomorrow. So it’s important to live also now and not like for retirements and actually, well, this is a bit gloomy, gloomy topic. I mean, I’m from Finland. So it’s very common for us to talk about these things. I guess sometimes.

Matthew Dols 1:03:12
It’s funny. That’s it, that as a foreigner, I would have said Finnish. depressed. Yeah, that’s pretty normal,

Hanna Rast 1:03:19
like gloomy topics. But I talked with Michael, like, maybe a year ago, a year ago with my composer friend of mines. And we discussed like, what if you die tomorrow? Would you be would you be satisfied or happy with your life? And we both agreed that Yeah, like, of course, like, there will be things that we wouldn’t have like or things that we would have liked to have done. But of course, like in general, I think it’s, for me, it’s it’s a question that I, if I would die tomorrow, I hope that everyone who hears this is like knows that I lived like a full life until that day, you know,

Matthew Dols 1:03:59
what I always afraid of? I’m always wondering, when I die, who’s going to be in control of my estate? And are they going to have sort of the same ideals and beliefs that I have about how to manage my estate? Yeah, that I know that’s incredibly arrogant of me to believe that I even have a worthy body or series of work to necessitate an estate. Yeah, but but that’s, I actually think about that. I’m like, what basically how is my legacy going to be handled?

Hanna Rast 1:04:29
Of course and I that’s again, like something that we have discussed about that. Like, what do you do like I like regularly, like destroy some old works of mine that I’m not happy with? Yeah, because

Matthew Dols 1:04:41
in case you die tomorrow, you don’t want somebody else to think that was a great piece. You

Hanna Rast 1:04:46
don’t want anyone to show it. Like this is something very common that quite many friends of mine, as well, I guess. agree with. Do you have to you have to kind of edits how how Do what you leave behind?

Matthew Dols 1:05:02
And potentially leave behind? Yeah,

Hanna Rast 1:05:04
well, you will leave behind something. But like, of course, it will be discovered or no, that’s another case. But I mean, like you, someone will have to go through the things behind.

Matthew Dols 1:05:16
Wouldn’t it be fascinating if we could like, just start burying art in random places for it to be discovered that future just like, just make a piece of art, put it into like a steel box, bury it in some city somewhere, and just leave it there yet to be discovered someday in the future? 500

Hanna Rast 1:05:32
years, they will find it. Oh, that would be amazing.

Matthew Dols 1:05:37
That’s somebody’s gonna steal that as an art project.

Hanna Rast 1:05:41
I already started to think about it like, Oh, we should go and just brewery it somewhere here under construction every year.

Matthew Dols 1:05:47
But wouldn’t it be fascinating if some artists actually went around and just like, made they’d have to be big pieces, but like little pieces, buried them never told anybody maybe left a little note in that whatever. But like, never told anybody and just left it?

Hanna Rast 1:06:00
Yeah, I do. Like the idea. I feel like when I was younger, and even still, I do have I’m very fascinated about the archaeology, and geology. And I feel that these kind of like Dickinson findings, the just like, appear from the layers of ground are extremely fascinating. And like, that’s one of the teams actually that I’m working here as well, that is just like something that I want to dig through the time that like to really this kind of archaeological kind of approach to this, well, you

Matthew Dols 1:06:33
can take pictures of these things, not showing where it is and just put them on like an Instagram feeds that I have now buried somewhere in the world

Hanna Rast 1:06:44
could be very like performative acts as well. Or it could be

Matthew Dols 1:06:50
worse, it sounds like a lot of money and time and effort, whatever,

Hanna Rast 1:06:54
well, well, maybe frame would fund the travel costs for the steering like to bury your work, like somewhere in South America, for example, how would that be great?

Matthew Dols 1:07:08
Yeah, I need to bury it in the Maldives. Please send me to the Maldives. But okay, so I’ve taken up enough of your time. So I’ve got my lot. My final two questions that I ask everybody. So let’s sort of wrap this up. One is, is basically some sort of advice, generally. So like the ideas, the listeners are people who want to elevate their own careers. So some sort of experience that you’ve had that I always ask people for things that they did wrong, or that went badly that you could try to advise people to stay away from, or something that you’ve been like, okay, because I made a series of these mistakes, I have learned that this works.

Hanna Rast 1:07:49
Yeah. So that kind of a thing. For me, as an artist, I feel, I get very easily inspired and distracted by some other artworks. So I’m very, I get very used, easily affected. And then like, if I’m super inspired of someone else’s work, I realized that I go to the studio and I start to do something similar, not like exactly the copy of the artwork that I saw. But like I somehow absorb the the thing that things that I saw, and of course, in some level will, we always do. But like I think it’s very important to stay somehow critical to work that and realize when like someone else’s artwork is distracting and leading your way of doing and when you should like, keep on your own path.

Matthew Dols 1:08:39
Yeah, there’s a difference between like an omaze to versus copying.

Hanna Rast 1:08:43
Yeah,

Matthew Dols 1:08:44
or being inspired by like, one thing that I always say to my students, like, it’s great to be inspired by something, but don’t make work like them.

Hanna Rast 1:08:53
Exactly. So I feel that it’s important to stay critical. And being able to kill your darlings in a way that you should be able to abandon some artworks that just don’t work or the ideas that just don’t work. So that’s another thing that I have realized that or I have learned during time that I have to be able to let go and I have to be able to just abandon some artworks that felt very dear to me, but just don’t work.

Matthew Dols 1:09:27
I have a question along that line. 99% of the time, when I do an exhibition, I will put up the piece that I love. I think I’ve absolutely loved this piece and then I’ll put up a bunch of other stuff. And then at the end, there’ll be like an extra space or something until you put up you’re like okay, well I’ll just throw this last thing in. Almost every time the piece that I love, nobody else loves and the piece that I just was like, Oh, I got some extra space and I just threw it in there just being there is the one that everybody loves. Do you have this experience or is it just me?

Hanna Rast 1:09:58
Yes or no with some work. Yes, I have thought that like that I don’t have any, like, strong affection or a strong bond to an artwork, and then all the other others do like exactly that one. But quite often I have had these works that are very dear to be and then they are very dear to to the audience as well. Yeah,

Matthew Dols 1:10:21
I rarely fall into the category of like, my favorite piece is also the favorite of the public.

Hanna Rast 1:10:27
Eye, there are a few

Matthew Dols 1:10:29
that’s associated with thinking about my taste.

Hanna Rast 1:10:33
But yeah, for sure I but I would say that like staying critical and slike following your own path, maybe this is like a cliche as well, but like, at least

Matthew Dols 1:10:43
increasingly a cliche, yes. Yeah.

Hanna Rast 1:10:44
But staying critical is like very, very, very important. I think, like not taking anything for granted, or, but I guess like everyone has their own path. So you never, like, it’s hard to say for someone else like Oh, don’t do this. Because like, if you do that it actually might work for someone else. So I guess it’s always like doing mistakes and learning from them. And just like going through the whole process. So I guess like you should be also you shouldn’t be afraid of doing mistakes. And you shouldn’t be able to, or you should, you shouldn’t be afraid of failing.

Matthew Dols 1:11:23
Yeah, I saw a video years ago, there was this design studio that had this big mural that said, fail hard. And I love that, yeah, I almost get a tattoo of that. I don’t even do tattoos. But I fail hard. Like if you, no matter what you do, do it to your best of your ability, even if it’s an absolute failure, fail with the most passion you could possibly fit. And I

Hanna Rast 1:11:46
think like failure, that’s actually one one of the topics that I’m very interested in, and I’m doing a show in one year about its failure, failure topic. And I feel it’s very important for artistic processes, for sure. But in general, in life, we experience a lot of failures. And that’s, again, something that we we would like to more tell the successful stories about how we, how we dealt with these things. And maybe it can include failure, but in the end, it is like a success success. But then I feel that failure is very important point where you can consider over again, what’s like, where you are going or what what was your idea, or it kind of allows you radically to think differently of the moments why you why you failed. And then again, like it helps you to develop to a new direction. So I guess like failure is like very crucial part for being an artist.

Matthew Dols 1:12:42
Absolutely. All right, last question. Now, this is a little bit of a long question. So bear with me on this. As part of the podcast, the intention of the podcast is for me to learn and meet me and the listeners to learn how to successfully navigate the industry of the arts to be able to find their ability to make enough money to make a living and be happy. I’m always going to whatever each individual defines it as, since this is a nebulous thing. And it’s just a common set of conversations. There’s no quantifiable outcome of this to say yes, I have learned how the art world works. I’ve created a quantifiable outcome. So my desire is to learn enough about how the industry, the world, the scene, whatever word you use for the arts works effectively enough to get a piece of my artwork. So me my artwork, on exhibition in the Museum of Modern Art in New York City. So my question to every guest is, what is something that I and then I as a proxy for all the listeners, basically, I could do to put my career on the right path to be able to attain that goal? Oh,

Hanna Rast 1:14:03
that’s a tricky question. But I guess that’s the question that like every artist could ask themselves, like, especially if you want to have exhibition at MoMA, of course,

Matthew Dols 1:14:14
it could be any major institution I chose.

Hanna Rast 1:14:16
Nice. Nice, nice, true. Yeah, I mean,

Matthew Dols 1:14:18
it can be Tate Modern, it can be any any

Hanna Rast 1:14:21
Speaker Yeah, like how can you work towards that? I guess. Is there any like, I don’t know, kind of be said that. Or we do day Sunday Sunday’s, but I guess like, you just have to keep working. And you just shouldn’t like not to give up in some way. But it’s again, like very cliche thing to say, but like if I would like to work onwards with that, I would never retire and I would try to just keep myself developing and keep connecting And keep just pushing. I don’t know, I guess like just not giving that poke connecting, though, what did you mean by Connecting, Connecting and creating networks.

Matthew Dols 1:15:10
And that and that really, in the end is what I’ve learned as the most important aspect, which is the most difficult aspect for most artists, because we’re generally, solo people, like we are not generally team players per se, you know, we want to be in the studio, we want to be by ourselves. But it is an absolute necessity in the industry these days, that you must work with other people. And you must go out and make these connections in these relationships, and you must build them and nurture them and expand them, whatever they are, whether it’s a gallery, or a curator, curator, whatever it is collector that you have to build these things. And this is one of the things I do online reviews for lensculture. And constantly, people are like, how do I get exhibitions? How do I get shows? How do I get bla bla bla, and it’s always going to be contacts.

Hanna Rast 1:16:07
And I feel that nowadays, it is very rare, or if it even this exists this kind of mythical idea of an artists working in a solitude somewhere and being discovered somehow

Matthew Dols 1:16:19
I know, it never happens. Well, never rarely, rarely. It’s that unicorn thing.

Hanna Rast 1:16:26
Yeah, but it’s still kind of a thing that is still gets sometimes mystified. So I feel that it’s very important that who you know, and how you know them, and how you nurtured the contacts and how well you have the chemistry playing together with these persons. So yeah, cuz like,

Matthew Dols 1:16:47
if you went to a curate, like, let’s say, because when people give me the advice of look up the curators at MoMA, and then approach them, and I’m, like, well, but if I do that, it’s a direct, almost like, it’s a pure business thing. It’s a Hi, I want to use you to get to this goal, and nobody wants that. No, and they’re not going to, they’re not going to respond positively to that. Yeah. So if you can’t go into these idea of these connections in these relationships with any intention of basically using these people to achieve achieve a goal, or else the relationship has already started in the wrong way, but I

Hanna Rast 1:17:27
guess like, it’s very important as well, to kind of, so it has to come from the feeling that you feel that you both can get something out of it. And that’s when it could work actually, that he’s both feel that like you like okay, I think your approach is very interesting. And he has like some reflection to the things that I deal with in my arts. So I feel in that kind of occasions, there is a possibility that it can grow to something bigger. So I feel it’s always important to have like a like somehow feel truly that you both can get something out of it. And it’s just like, hey, let me let me have an exhibition there and there and there and can you just be my curator and just like can I use you? So I feel it’s more important to you both are in the same boat with these stats you you have you share something common or some some interest in the similar themes or similar kind of concepts or so on.

Matthew Dols 1:18:29
Yeah, that’s great. I mean, the the fact that we’re telling people through this podcast basically like that, you can’t be sort of selfish and self centered and and sort of egotistical and and go out with the intention of I want to use you as a stepping stone to get to Xyz kind of scenario that the relationships with gallerist even and even other artists those two because like these other artists can then recommend you for exhibitions recommend you to curators recommend you to collectors. Yeah, the the you can’t use people the reason why I’m sort of stressing on this is because I did it. I like I remember being younger, and saying like, oh I need to be friends with this person because this person has connections with this this gallery or these curators or whatever and I remember trying to use people basically it never worked.

Hanna Rast 1:19:26
I think we all be there that we have tried and then it hasn’t worked. And we have learned from that that okay, we shouldn’t like or I shouldn’t just like approach whatever gallery in a hope of that they will represent me if if there is like, if it is like for the purpose of me using them. But I feel that yeah, that it’s it is very important. And even like when I said that I’m like with the social media that I look forward to create more networks and create more connections even to these like calories that I’m interested in. I feel that I have like strong connection to their ideologies behind like the what kind of shows they have there or the space is like very intriguing or very inspiring for me. So I feel that if I approach them more in that way that hey, like, I feel that we are sharing something common or we have, like I’m very interested in in your space, but like, not just in a way that I want you to, I want to use you but more like that we can both get something out of it. I feel that’s more better approach for any kind of connections or networks.

Matthew Dols 1:20:36
It’s Yeah, it’s all about the sort of mutual growth and expansion.

Hanna Rast 1:20:40
Yeah. And I think like, that’s something that we all want in the art field, whether we are artists, or curators, or galleries or collectors or even to an audience who enjoys art, I feel it’s like this nice feeling of community and I do, I do truly do hope that it goes more towards that. I feel that that’s something that should that’s that’s the way that in my like hopes and ideas it should go more towards to rather than this capitalistic way of thinking and marketing and selling the works. Yeah, well, I

Matthew Dols 1:21:17
come from a background, my dad’s a priest, Minister, whatever you want to call it. And the idea of like, when the tide gets high, all boats rise, if we all can learn from each other, then we all will get better. Yeah, I’m a huge fan of that kind of an idea. Yeah.

Hanna Rast 1:21:36
I do think that that has like, a seed of truth. in it. That’s you just have to somehow, I think that that’s, that’s very important that it’s not just like use or getting advantage of, or taking advantage of someone is just like more like, Hey, we both can get something out of it. And that’s, I guess, one way to do it.

Matthew Dols 1:21:57
And that’s hard. That’s really hard. It’s like dating. Basically, we’re basically data trying to find people that we connect with and we, you know,

Hanna Rast 1:22:04
we’re in the same wavelength. And I’ll share some say values or ideas or interests or whatever it is, but I guess that’s that’s the way to do it. And it’s it’s hard, for sure. And like for an introvert introverts like me, I feel that sometimes it is like, very, very kind of a difficult thing to proceed or

Matthew Dols 1:22:29
go through. Indeed. Absolutely. All right. Well, thank you very much for your time.

Hanna Rast 1:22:33
Thank you for inviting me.

 

The Wise Fool is produced by Fifty14. I am your host Matthew Dols – www.matthewdols.com

All information is available in the show notes or on our website www.wisefoolpod.com