Transcript for Episode 017 – Installation Artist, Petra Hudcová (Prague, CZ)

 

Published September 17, 2019

Full recording here: https://wisefoolpod.com/contemporary-fine-art-podcast-with-installation-artist-petra-hudcova-prague-cz/

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

 

Matthew Dols 0:12
Please pronounce your name correctly for me.

Petra Hudcova 0:14
Okay, so my name is Petra Hudcova in Czech, and I guess in English, it will be pronounced Petra Hudcova.

Matthew Dols 0:23
Where do you hail from? Where were you born and raised.

Petra Hudcova 0:27
I was born in Prague, in the Czech Republic. And I was raised in Prague and lived here until I was 18. And then I’m moved to England.

Matthew Dols 0:41
One thing that I always find interesting is where people come from. So what kind of household were they raised in? What did your parents do your siblings do kind of thing? Did they? Did they do something creative? And therefore they influenced you? Or did they do something completely not creative, and therefore that influenced you?

Petra Hudcova 0:57
So I come from what I would call a working class family. And, but everyone, from my father sign was very creative. My grandfather was drawing all the time, and making furniture. And my uncle was also a painter. And, and also, my father was very creative. So I would say they were very enthusiastic. armatures. So that’s, that’s where I guess that interest from in in the art

Matthew Dols 1:41
and your mother? My mom, I

Petra Hudcova 1:43
would, I don’t think she’s that. Creative. But now she’s actually interested in the arts and doing all sorts of different courses and going to the What do you call it the university form for elderly people, and doing ceramics and art and so on, but when she was younger, she, she wasn’t interested, as much.

Matthew Dols 2:12
So at 18, you moved to London? Why did you move to London,

Petra Hudcova 2:16
I, it’s a funny story. I was I applied for the, for the Academy of Arts after my high school, and I didn’t get in. So my mom had this idea to send me to Israel as an author. And I went to Israel. And I ran away from the family after one week, because I realized that it wasn’t for me, and I lived and worked in different places in Israel. And then I, I for several months, and then I went to Egypt for a few months. And I met this English man, who invited me to go on a motorbike around Egypt with him. And we fell in love. And then I moved to Santa Rosa, it was for romantic reasons that I moved to England.

Matthew Dols 3:21
Alright, it’s as fair reason as any other I moved here because my wife is Czech. So you go, yeah. Now when you got there, you then went to school in, in training in the arts?

Petra Hudcova 3:33
Yeah, I had to redo some of my earlier education, like, what I call the A levels. So I did have telegraphy and the arts. And then I did a foundation course, which is like a preparation for the university where you do design fashion, textile, and you and graphic design and to decide what path you want to take at a higher level. And then I went to university, in Leeds, in the north of England.

Matthew Dols 4:09
And what did you graduate with? What was your degree?

Petra Hudcova 4:11
My degree was in in the fine art. So

Matthew Dols 4:16
I have a bachelor,

Petra Hudcova 4:18
Bachelor bachelor. And then after I went, I actually came back to Prague for two years. And then I applied to do masters in London. So I went back to to England to do the masters and then I also stayed on for a few more years in London.

Matthew Dols 4:36
And so now currently, you’re living in Prague, you have a lovely studio here in Prague golf, golf. And you produce from what I’ve seen on your website is very much installation works.

Petra Hudcova 4:52
Yes, I think lately I have been making mainly installations and objects.

Matthew Dols 5:01
Yeah, there were some older logo, some older works, which were sort of smaller scale sculptural works, but then they seem to have sort of gotten larger and larger and become more experiential installations scale kind of thing.

Petra Hudcova 5:13
Yes, I actually started video or done was my focus. And then I started making 3d installations using moving image. And then, because I always felt at the time, it wasn’t so easy to make 3d installations with moving image. But I felt like I wanted to always get away from like, the two dimensionality and also dollinger timeline of a video or moving image, so I started making these installations. And afterwards, I had a bit of a gap when I wasn’t sure what I was doing, or a little bit of a doubt. And then I went back to the basics and started drawing and, and then again, the same thing happened when I wanted to kind of get away from the, the frame or the two dimensional image. And slowly, it started evolving, evolving into like, again, three dimensional objects, and then also also into installations where you could add the additional dimension of the space.

Matthew Dols 6:35
You mentioned a little bit of doubt in there. One of the things I’m always fascinated about is is that all creative people have that doubt, either they do have a little bit of it every day, or they have like massive bouts of it where they basically sort of have creative block for a long period of time. What if you don’t mind? What what brought yours on? Like, what do you know what caused it? And then what did you do to to get past it?

Petra Hudcova 7:06
I think, for me, it was the fact that I was I moved from, from England, to Prague. So that was like a big change for me. And then also some things happen in my personal life. So I guess that created the biggest, that was the biggest reason to, like upset me, are the creative process. And then how I got back to it was that I methodically started working regularly and just step by step kind of getting back into it. Because I think that’s what happens. If you if you stop, then it’s like with anything like with exercise, then you have to, at least for me, I don’t know how it works for other people. But then you have to get back by just doing basic and you have to start from scratch, I guess. But sorry, but more about the doubt that. Yeah, I guess it’s a common thing that you also sometimes have a lapse in your confidence or things are not happening as expected. And then maybe that can create a feeling of doubt.

Matthew Dols 8:20
Yeah, and we all feel it. And then and then because we’re feeling doubt, we don’t reach out for help, because we’re doubting ourselves. And so it sort of becomes a little self fulfilling prophecy of like, I doubt myself, I don’t ask people for feedback, I don’t engage people in my creative process. And then I doubt myself even more. And so it becomes its own little spiral that sort of keeps going perpetuating. But at some point, you have to break it like you have to do if you want to continue making art always choose not to and move on but like if you want to you have to find a way to break that and there’s there’s some sort of something has to happen and oftentimes I find that it’s either just getting back in the studio just making that conscious choice to get back in the studio and just physically be there and something will happen or some outside influence somehow encourages you to get back in there.

Petra Hudcova 9:17
Yeah, for sure. I agree. Like the going back to the studio for me it’s also very important than just having the discipline and the regularity of of just even sitting in the studio and spending time with yourself and your thoughts and just doodling or drawing and and letting the process happen. And then things always happen for the process. And then also as you say like reaching out to people I always share it with my friends are so like creative friends and and maybe sometimes even doing little exhibitions or something’s something that can get you back into the process something maybe not that you would consider it like a major achievement, but even even doing things as an exercise that will kind of start the process. you’re

Matthew Dols 10:15
exercising the creative muscle. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Throughout my life, I’ve known different types of creative people, some that don’t go into the studio until they’re inspired, and some that are in the studio every single day from nine to five. And it’s sort of a work discipline for them. And the every young person finds their unique way that works for them. So what works for you,

Petra Hudcova 10:39
I guess I go through stages, and I have stages where I when I go to the studio every day, and then maybe after some Wow, exhibitions or times when I feel like I have exhausted myself, I tried to take a break and maybe not go as much. And then sometimes I have times when kind of like, everyday life comes in also, and I don’t have as much time, which is a bit frustrating. But yeah, I think it’s important to take breaks as well. I feel not my Germans, but maybe like, people have holidays. So

Matthew Dols 11:25
you spoke about everyday life. So in Prague right now, how do you make your living? Like so? Do you have other jobs that help to support your art practice? Or is your art practice your primary income?

Petra Hudcova 11:38
No, I, I have other jobs like little jobs, like teaching and doing workshops for children and adults. And I, I get some money from my art practice, but I wouldn’t say that’s it, like, even close to enough to survive on so. Yeah, so it’s important for me to also work. And I try to, of course, balance my making money or, and I think it’s, it’s the same for many other people to try to balance out the, the creative life of them was the ability to survive and to have money to live on. Well,

Matthew Dols 12:31
that’s the basis of this whole podcast is trying to hear different stories of successes and struggles about like how different people are dealing with the stresses of daily life, how do I pay my bills, but still worship to the mother god of creativity that I must do kind of thing. So it’s it’s a difficult balance. And we all struggle with it all the time, until we can find some what some way to make it successful for us or work for us or whatever word you want to associate with that. So

Petra Hudcova 13:05
yeah, for sure. Yeah. And I think it’s also, for me, personally, it’s also nice to have other activities in my life, because when I’ve had times when I’m in the studio, or I can be in the studio 24 seven, it’s also not easy, because there is also a lot of pressure and responsibility that I feel at those times. So sometimes it’s nice to, to kind of take a break through doing other things and, and maybe being appreciated for the other things as well. Because sometimes it’s not easy to get appreciation for what you do in the studio or for the art you do.

Matthew Dols 13:58
elaborate on that. I’m not exactly sure what you mean by that. So that’s Give me something more tangible some some little story or anecdote sort of about issue of not finding appreciation in life.

Petra Hudcova 14:13
Sometimes for example, you do an exhibition, which where you are not sure whether the result is clear. Or or the the output and and you might be also not get an in positive feedback. So this is what I mean. That’s my whole life.

Matthew Dols 14:42
Back to my parents, not a lot of positive reinforcement.

Petra Hudcova 14:45
Oh really.

Matthew Dols 14:46
I love your mom and dad but not not the most positive reinforcement people now.

Petra Hudcova 14:51
Yeah. And also when you’re talking about maybe family or or maybe just people that you encounter They’re not everyone understands what you’re doing. So it’s difficult sometimes to be to get that kind of, yeah, appreciation

Matthew Dols 15:11
to your work in particular, you work in a very, I would say, pardon me if I’m incorrect with it, but I’d say reasonably abstract form. So mean, abstraction, I’ve always find, inherently is a bit more unapproachable than more representational worklets. Yeah. So, I mean, you’re, you’re kind of setting yourself up for a little bit of difficulty, the barrier of entry for the viewer to really go, I feel what you’re trying to explain because it abstractions a bit difficult. So when I found something I’m finding interesting is that as I talk to people, I realized that as creative people, we have set ourselves up with the most difficult task of anybody, like, we intentionally chose, choose a lifestyle and a career. That’s difficult for people to understand.

Petra Hudcova 16:04
Hmm, yeah, for sure. Definitely.

Matthew Dols 16:07
And yet, the one thing we want people to understand us,

Petra Hudcova 16:11
yeah, I might go back to childhood or something. I don’t know. That’s my, that’s my,

Matthew Dols 16:20
my fascination is why do we choose a career that is emotionally draining? Yep. I have. Some somebody said to me years ago, that when when we choose to be in the arts, when we go out and show our work in public, nobody is there to support us. Nobody cares. If we succeed. The only people that care if we succeed are ourselves and our loved ones. Beyond that, nobody else cares if we succeed, because if we fail, there’s 100 other artists that love to take our place. So we have to, to a certain extent, like be our own cheerleader. But for me, I found that I ride that balance, like I made the error in my youth, of taking self confidence, trying to be self confident about your own art into and I overdid it, I became arrogant. And then then a lot of people didn’t want to work with me, or they didn’t like me, whatever. And that was my own fault and my own doing and and I’ve realized the error of my ways. But it’s easy, almost easy to fall into that because you you you have to feel so confident about your work, or nobody else is gonna appreciate it in some way.

Petra Hudcova 17:40
Yeah, definitely. Yeah. It’s important. Yeah, can’t

Matthew Dols 17:45
go overboard.

Petra Hudcova 17:46
No, I think. I think maybe there is a fine balance. I don’t know. Or maybe it’s different for everyone. And I think it’s definitely good in every aspect of people’s lives to have confidence in yourself and belief in yourself. And more so might be in the arts, because I guess it’s just very brave to come out with your magic call it and show your own skin. Publicly because, yeah, yeah. be vulnerable. And I don’t know about our organs. Yeah, yeah.

Matthew Dols 18:30
Back to your practice here in Prague. How do you get funded or stuff? So I come from America, I do more object based productions. So like, I create an image, I put it in a frame, put it on the wall. I’m not European, not Czech. And, and I don’t work in abstract installation work. So how do you find how do you find the opportunities? And how do you find the money to be able to produce these things? Because some of them I noticed are very reasonably large scale and using rather expensive materials.

Petra Hudcova 19:03
Yeah. So I guess I search for opportunities. On the internet, I guess I get approached by people, by curators or other friends, I talked to people sometimes, like I think opportunities kind of happens through what they call maybe networking, or just talking to friends or acquaintances. And yeah, the process is kind of organic, I would say, because when you’re involved in the in the art, then things just happen. But of course, you have to put an effort into it and have the energy and motivation to, to participate and also to look for opportunities. Of course. Regarding the funding, I have done a few residences, which are good because you get the space and the money to have time to create or to work towards some exhibition or, or, or it sometimes just gives you space to, to make work without any, any commitments. And that’s really great. And tell me more about residencies.

Matthew Dols 20:40
I’m fascinated with them. I think they’re absolutely fabulous. As I’m getting older, yeah, I’m 45 years old. Yeah, the one thing I really, really want is more time and space and money to get nothing personal to my life. But I kind of want to get away from my life every now and then. Yeah, when I was younger, it was easier. I had more time I was awake more now I sleep more. So like, I really want to be able to get away from the stresses of everyday life. And things like this, to be able to devote time and residency seem like these magical things. These unicorns, how do you? So I’m fascinated, like, when you write a application to a residency man, I want to get down to the like, when I look at the a lot of applications, not all of them, but but many applications, they’re very, they seem to be very focused, they’re like, we are interested in ecological art. I can’t apply for that. Interested in ecological or or you apply to another one where they say, Oh, we want you to engage in the community, like my art is not about engaging, and you can’t apply for that. So I feel like there are a lot of them that have these very specific topics and subjects that like I just can’t do. So it takes a lot of time and energy to even find the ones that are more or less what I would call sort of that pure true residency where they just say, we will give you a studio, we will give you money, and we will give you time, and you have no obligation do whatever you do. Like those are magical residents.

Petra Hudcova 22:21
I don’t know because it’s also nice. I to have something to work towards. I think

Matthew Dols 22:29
what I mean, oftentimes it’ll end with an exhibition. Yeah, I have to leave a piece of work. I get all that kind of stuff. But yeah, but how do you how do you choose your residence to apply for because mean, it’s time it’s money? It’s

Petra Hudcova 22:42
Yeah.

Matthew Dols 22:44
How do you choose the one the right ones to apply for? And then the process of even like writing your statements or your application process? How do you do that?

Petra Hudcova 22:54
Yeah. So I guess I go through some kind of platforms or websites. That’s one way of doing it, where I’m trying to search for something that would resonate with me. And it’s quite intuitive, or or, or I’m looking for something that that is relevant to me at the at that specific moment.

Matthew Dols 23:25
Do you search by like, by location? You’re You’re only like, I want to be in the Middle East? Or I want to be in the Americas? Or? Or is it more you literally don’t care about the location? And you’re looking for just the good the residency itself that interests you? I’m fascinated by this. Because, you know, like, if I wanted to go to India, the ones in India, if I want to go to Central Europe or Northern Europe, there’s there. So like, do you what what’s your hierarchy when you selection process?

Petra Hudcova 23:58
So for example, I can say at one stage, or I’m still interested in, in modernist architecture, that had been transplanted into different into, like, non European contacts. So for example, I was looking, yeah, so I was looking for places where there is architecture of that kind. So for example, I went and did a residency in in Casablanca. And also, I was trying to get a residency in Chandigarh in India, but didn’t find a suitable place. So yeah, I guess I’m looking for places which are relevant to my practice at a certain moment. And then I just, I think that in the application, I try to be as honest as possible and just describe my practice and describe the The things I would like to achieve or do. And sometimes, I’m lucky, and I get it, and sometimes I’m not. But

Matthew Dols 25:09
this thing is like, how much of that is sort of like, art bullshit? How much of it like when you write an application? How much of it, do you you’re like, Oh my God, that’s just pompous art speak. Yeah, how much of it is sincere?

Petra Hudcova 25:23
I think, from my experience. It’s really strange, actually, when I think about it, because I have applied for many residences and got some, but usually I feel that the more sincere I am, or the more the more the resident says seems relevant to the practice, then, the more likely it is to get the residency. So I think it It works like whenever I wasn’t sure about the place or about what they were doing. I think I didn’t get it, or RFI. Yeah, I don’t know if there are times when I was just trying to get a residency for the sake of getting a residency and I just wrote through kind of what you call. I’m not sure, actually, if that happened, ever. But yeah, I tried to be quite honest. That’s great.

Matthew Dols 26:19
Um, yeah.

Petra Hudcova 26:20
Or not waste time with things that don’t seem relevant or that didn’t? Yeah. Yeah. Sometimes, of course, there are residences, which I think would be very relevant, but I don’t get them so.

Matthew Dols 26:37
And that’s, there’s tears of residencies. And some It feels like, at a certain point in anybody’s career, they are equivalent to a certain tier of a residency and hopefully we get better. Yeah we all want those super prestigious ones that will get us into these amazing opportunities. But they’re, they’re very difficult to get into. They get more competitive as they get higher and higher on their dears.

Petra Hudcova 27:03
I guess yeah.

Matthew Dols 27:03
So what about grants? Do you apply for grants?

Petra Hudcova 27:07
I’ve applied for some grants. But there don’t seem to be that many opportunities in the Czech Republic? I mean, there are some travel grants that I got. And I can’t tell you so much about the grant, actually.

Matthew Dols 27:27
Okay. Do you have a gallery that currently represents? You

Petra Hudcova 27:30
know, I don’t have a gallery? No

Matthew Dols 27:32
more interesting question. Do you want the gallery to represent you?

Petra Hudcova 27:37
I think it would be a nice, or an interesting experience to work with a gallery because I’ve never done it. So yeah, I would definitely like to, but I have been making recently very site specific artworks. So related to different places. So I don’t know how that would work. So I don’t know whether my art practice would have to change in some way or

Matthew Dols 28:07
I don’t know, either, because I don’t do that kind of work. So I have no personal experience with that. But I’ve known site specific artists who still have galleries that represent them, because what the gallery theoretically would offer with the would be the contacts to collectors with sites that they want something built into, or institutions that that want some sort of pieces that you know, put into their spaces or their collection. So like, you can see the connections of a gallery being helpful.

Petra Hudcova 28:40
Yeah. And yeah, we just wanted to say more about the grant joy, because I have some friends in Holland and Finland, for example. And when I said there are not as many opportunities in Prague, then that’s what I meant, because I get, like my friends in Holland or Finland, I get funded. Full time, basically. So they apply for these grants that cover their living for two years, for example. So we all kind of grants, I don’t think

Matthew Dols 29:21
we’re all going to finish.

Petra Hudcova 29:24
Yeah. So this generosity, I think, doesn’t exist that’s in the Czech Republic. So that’s what I meant. I think

Matthew Dols 29:31
that’s a tier two kind of thing, again, is like I think Finland, that’s a that’s an extreme, fully funded for two years. That’s, that’s, you know, artistic dream, really, I believe that there are a lot of opportunities in the Czech Republic that are but sort of then on a tier level that are not available in let’s say, the United States or Canada or many other places in the world. I think, I think Europe is in sort of in the middle, they fund but they don’t necessarily fund a whole They find a whole lot more than a lot of other places. Yeah,

Petra Hudcova 30:02
of course. Yeah. I mean, if you compared to other countries, then definitely, Europe and the Czech Republic are good places to, to make work at the moment.

Matthew Dols 30:18
We’d like to get back to the residency again. So your experiences at residency is where they individual residency is basically where you were given a your own space and your own place and your own time, or where they grew presidencies, where you sort of did things as a group and had a dinner together all the time and very sort of experiential of the interactions.

Petra Hudcova 30:41
Various, yeah, I’ve been to too few. And some of them were more individual where you got your own space, and minimum socializing. And then other ones where it was more focused on, on, on meeting people and kind of getting to know people and the possibilities of collaborating together and having dinner together and so on.

Matthew Dols 31:14
And which one did you personally find sort of more satisfying? Let’s,

Petra Hudcova 31:19
I think I like the mix are the ones that are more serious and focused on just me having the space to work? And then also, of course, meeting people and getting to round a place? And, of course, not being just isolated in the studio not having the possibility to meet the local artists? That? Yeah, that I wouldn’t like, I guess. So for me, that makes it the best. I’ve been to residency which was to kind of social and that was really distracting for me and then get so much out of it, I think.

Matthew Dols 32:10
Yeah, I mean, for me, the idea in my mind, by idealistic vision of of a residency would probably be much more individual time, individual space and ends or maybe like once a day, or once a couple days coming together in some sort of group format.

Petra Hudcova 32:29
Yeah. Or by being in I really enjoyed that when I was in Israel. The lady who runs the residency there, she’s fantastic. And she introduced me to different people in the city and people who were also very useful for my work. And yeah, she helped me a lot to kind of become involved in the in the place as well,

Matthew Dols 32:58
which actually leads to something else that I’ve often been sort of informed of, because I haven’t done a lot of residency myself. That residency is oftentimes helped to build some of these networks, the that then lead to better opportunities, more opportunities in ways that you simply could not achieve, had you not attended that residency. Has this been your experience? Yeah,

Petra Hudcova 33:23
definitely. Definitely. I’ve met a lot of people. It’s also it’s very interesting. Because when you’re doing a residency, you’re detached from your own place. So you rely on people more, so I guess you very quickly become close to people who you spend time with, at the residency. And, and also, usually, you are expected to, to create something or produce some kind of outcome. So it just naturally creates that kind of opportunity. And yeah, through through connections with people and why, yeah, what

Matthew Dols 34:10
I’m trying to get to so for example, had at your residencies any of them? Have you been able to make a contact with let’s say, a collector or a curator or a gallerist, or a museum that has then because you participate in that residency has then led directly to another opportunity?

Petra Hudcova 34:31
Yes. Yeah. I have.

Matthew Dols 34:33
Could you expand on that a little bit?

Petra Hudcova 34:36
I don’t really want to mention

Matthew Dols 34:40
mentioned names. No, you don’t have to say names. But you can say like, Yes, I was able to sell the work or Yeah, you know, I was able to exhibit it. Yeah, another place because I was participating. Recently, I read an article that there was this accusation, I’m putting accusation in air quotes. So that that you all understand that The Whitney Biennial in New York was favored people like 85% of the people participating in the biennial all went to a particular residency. curator of the biennial went to that residency basically chose 80% of the artists in the exhibition. So it’s it’s great. Sounds great. In some ways, yes. If you go to a residence, the potential of meeting these kinds of thing could get you into these amazing opportunities.

Petra Hudcova 35:29
Yeah. But I think it’s very natural, because if you’re doing a residency, it’s usually an institution, which has the means to be connected to different to other institutions together it to collectors, and they also, I mean, how else can they search for artists than through other institutions? or? Yeah, so so it seems natural that, that what you’ve mentioned is happening in a way? Because I don’t know maybe it’s couldn’t be a bit lazy also, but

Matthew Dols 36:07
no, I mean, to me what you just said sounds like a sort of a smart way to go, which is collector, a curator, gallery, whatever Museum, basically, then rely not realize, but trusts the residency selection process of the residence. Yeah, they have done a quality job and choosing the people that are participating. And so therefore, they then say, Okay, if you have chosen these people, these artists to participate, then you probably have done a pretty good job, so I will be giving them a chance. So it’s sort of simplifies the process. Yeah,

Petra Hudcova 36:43
yeah. Yeah, exactly. You’ve just said it. I’m not

Matthew Dols 36:47
sure we finished with funding, like as far as how do you currently fund your art?

Petra Hudcova 36:55
Currently, I guess, mainly, for example, when I do show, sometimes the galleries cover the production or the

Matthew Dols 37:08
good, that’s not normal. That’s the normal that’s not normal. Okay. So like, even that is a very interesting thing. So you would so this would be a for profit gallery, a nonprofit space, what kind of space is this? That would help you by covering some production costs.

Petra Hudcova 37:27
It would be a nonprofit gallery. Okay. Or, or privately profit gallery also are privately funded gallery. And Sunday, they would usually covered the cost of the production or part Li. At least,

Matthew Dols 37:49
yeah, but not your time. They’ll just cover no reels. Yeah.

Petra Hudcova 37:52
materials. Yeah. Yeah. Not Not my time. Yeah. Sometimes you have actually gone to artists fee also, I guess that would cover the time. But it usually wasn’t. It wouldn’t cover the whole time that he spent making the work so

Matthew Dols 38:12
rarely. Yes. Now you exhibit here in Prague, do you exhibit outside of the Czech Republic?

Petra Hudcova 38:20
Yes. I have done both.

Matthew Dols 38:22
Yeah. Where have you gone outside of the public to and tell us some stories of successes and failures? Like, basically, what markets have you found that are receptive to your style and not receptive to your style?

Petra Hudcova 38:37
You mean by countries are

Matthew Dols 38:40
by experience my

Petra Hudcova 38:40
experiences I have recently?

Matthew Dols 38:44
Can you do it by country? You can just be like, Hungary does not like my work at all. Whereas Croatia rockin my stuff. Can you do it by country? I guess I actually could like Germany, France. East Coast. America likes my word. That’s a little bit a little bit of UK but but Germany’s my, my strongest I can do. I’m sort of reasonably like that. Yeah.

Petra Hudcova 39:19
I wouldn’t dare to generalize. But why not? It’s funny. Um,

Matthew Dols 39:30
well, you need to I mean, that’s part of it is you need to learn your market. I mean, one of the things I found is I was in America for most of my life. And because it was an American I had there was sort of a barrier of entry for me to other cultures and other opportunities like, I’ve never tried to exhibit in Asia. I’ve been in the Middle East. I’ve never tried to exhibit in Africa or South America even. I’ve been to Central America, Canada, us and now Europe. But there’s a lot of the world that I’ve never even tried to engage with. And it’s quite possible that like my art, your art, whatever might be phenomenal to them. But we just haven’t had the time, the resources, the energy, the whatever, to be able to reach out all these other potential spaces, locales, cultures,

Petra Hudcova 40:24
I feel that I create work for usually for some kind of a site specific events, that’s the most common one. So I’ve done things for a lot of different like festivals, art festivals, or festivals all over the world. Yeah. And so, for example, I’ve been to Bulgaria several times, where there was a first there was they tried to work with abandoned buildings there. And I think a lot of London buildings and, and, and question the process of gentrification, and they, they, there is a team of people that create now it actually ended the festival, but they, they don’t do annual events they used to do have people would create site specific works for that occasion, so I guess it was good for me.

Matthew Dols 41:47
festivals or art fairs?

Petra Hudcova 41:50
No, they are for festivals, festivals, yeah. Festivals different. Yeah, for sure.

Matthew Dols 41:55
Have you have you had any work exhibited or participated in any art fairs?

Petra Hudcova 42:01
Yeah, in the past, I was in an art for in London. Think it was good, fresh, fresh art fair or something like this? I can’t remember. It was a long time ago. It was when I was still living in London. So that was the last time I was approached many times by different galleries. I guess it happens to every artist. Asking

Matthew Dols 42:31
does not it does not happen to every No, no. Just so you know,

Petra Hudcova 42:34
okay. are too many artists, too.

Matthew Dols 42:39
It’s too early

Petra Hudcova 42:40
to participate in an art fair, but Oh, yeah.

Matthew Dols 42:44
Those kinds where they basically asked you to pay Yeah, yeah, those aren’t art fairs? No, not in my. They may call themselves art fairs, but they’re not art fairs. I have a hard fast rule that basically says, if anybody asks me to pay to exhibit, it’s not real. It’s not authentic or whatever. Yeah. So no, I don’t legitimize those kinds of things. They’re Welcome to approach a gallery that represents me and the gallery can choose to participate and pay but the idea of taking money from artists, I personally find that a bit offensive.

Petra Hudcova 43:23
Yeah, me too.

Matthew Dols 43:26
Yeah, I get it. I get those kinds of emails and stuff.

Petra Hudcova 43:30
Yeah. So it’s a bit of a joke. But that’s

Matthew Dols 43:35
it’s like the those publications that also say like, oh, when you put a thing of your artwork in our Oh, yeah.

Petra Hudcova 43:43
They’re usually really bad publications as

Matthew Dols 43:46
artists already, we already put time, energy, money research, testing, practice, mastery of a medium, whatever. We don’t have extra money to

Petra Hudcova 43:58
cover the cost of a gallery or to pay for

Matthew Dols 44:01
a booth at some sort of thing or something like this. I mean, that we don’t have that. I don’t know why people keep thinking that they can sucker artists into paying for these kinds of things.

Petra Hudcova 44:12
Yeah, I don’t know. Terrible.

Matthew Dols 44:15
I feel very pessimistic. I’m sorry, that came off as very pessimistic about that. But I am very pessimistic about that. Sales of your artwork is is an interest to me. So you’ve mentioned that you can be funded for production of works for exhibition,

Petra Hudcova 44:36
or sometimes I get a fee for the work. Yeah.

Matthew Dols 44:41
Do you in Do you sell your work? Do you have people who purchase them or institutions or collectors that purchase these kinds of

Petra Hudcova 44:51
data yet?

Matthew Dols 44:51
Not yet, okay. It’s, I’m not trying to make you feel bad, right. Because there are I mean, like looking at large Jeff Koons Yeah. Just

Petra Hudcova 45:04
Yeah. But no, I I mean, I’ve sold some works like privately, but nothing major.

Matthew Dols 45:13
And the ones you did sell they were the smaller Swick scale.

Petra Hudcova 45:17
Yeah, like photographs or drawings. Okay. Yeah.

Matthew Dols 45:21
Cuz I find it very interesting not being the kind of artists that you are about how do you perpetuate the it’s one thing to just be like, screw it. It’s a loss. Like, I’m never gonna make money off of this, but, but I felt the need to do it. Yeah. But to perpetually make these these public yeses that are site specific. Yeah, that’s very difficult as far as the business aspect of it, because like, there aren’t a lot of people, funders, institutions, whatever that willing to pay for.

Petra Hudcova 46:02
It like of I don’t know, for example, I don’t know if you seen the last work. I made a big wheel.

Matthew Dols 46:09
It’s funny. I saw an image on your website.

Petra Hudcova 46:11
Yeah. Yeah. First of all, I think, yeah, it’s a it’s an art exhibition or Festival, which is, which is happening now. It’s an out door, one, all the pieces are along the little river, called rocket car. And it’s I think, 12 artists. And most of the, like, most of it was covered, we got to an artist fee. And the production was covered. That wasn’t that bad.

Matthew Dols 46:43
But it shouldn’t be. That should be good. We should we as creative people, we add so much to the texture of society, like we shouldn’t be living our lives. I

Petra Hudcova 46:58
know that by No. I know. It’s weird, I guess. But yeah,

Matthew Dols 47:05
we accept it. We’re like, Well, I know that bad.

Petra Hudcova 47:11
It’s terrible. When I think about it, there’s this. I don’t know, maybe you come prepared. Even from an art school for this kind of Europe. I think you’re prepared from it from a very early age, that this is the way it’s gonna be. And then I guess you accept it. And yeah, it’s

Matthew Dols 47:35
there shouldn’t have to accept that that’s the end. This is what I’m trying to figure out through this podcast is like, why do we accept that? Yeah. How can we change that? Because it’s just not right. I mean, I’ve known many, many galleries. Yeah, like you, you think when you when you walk down the street, or you see an art fair, or whatever, you think all these galleries are doing magnificently. They’re just raking in the money. They are not. Most art galleries are on the verge of bankruptcy most days, and they’re just skating by most of them. And I’m not saying all are long. But like many of them are as passionate about art as the creators of the art, but but we assume as artists that they are doing fine, but we’re struggling. They’re not doing that well, either. And so like the whole industry seems to be like on the verge, the only people that seem to do really well, or the auction houses, they make tons of money.

Petra Hudcova 48:41
Yeah, but they deal with different kinds of works.

Matthew Dols 48:44
They’re dealing with the secondary arts market, not the the initial mean, but it’s just I want us all to do better I want you know,

Petra Hudcova 48:55
I’ll give a good he’s become the president of the yard it can become a

Matthew Dols 49:06
press I mean, even not like in other industries there are unions and other things like this that sort of fight for rights of people and things like this artists we’re a bunch of individual loners when we won’t even come together to fight for ourselves much less for the entire industry. And so the it the the the top down like the big, powerful money people, they control us instead of us dictating. I feel like I’m getting myself in a lot of trouble.

Petra Hudcova 49:41
Because you’re right, it is strange, and I find it for example, even strange. Now, I don’t know if you know that Prague Africa is being shut down as you know, or shut down, not shut down but being redeveloped.

Matthew Dols 49:56
You’re in the part of the building. That’s going to be First, so your

Petra Hudcova 50:02
movie should be on by October was the initial plan, I don’t know if the if it’s going through or not. And so some of the artists are the selected artists are being moved to a different building and the back of the area for several years until this building is going to be reconstructed. And then selected artists will be moved back to sharing the space with some kind of like architectural offices and designer offices or whatnot. And what I find strange is that nobody is doing anything nobody’s protesting. The artists are not trying to do anything when

Matthew Dols 50:48
you come back and that reconstructed space, of course, rents going to be higher.

Petra Hudcova 50:52
Yeah, possibly. Yeah, possibly they are. Well, there is a there is there is a twist that to this whole business or deal that they have 50 artists,

Matthew Dols 51:05
but what you’re getting into is the whole politics. I mean, and this is something that, you know, people who aren’t in the arts industry don’t ever? Well, it’s not that they don’t ever, but they often don’t realize that there’s a lot of political maneuvering to the arts in general, whether it’s, you know, between galleries, and curators, and galleries and collectors, or artists and galleries, whatever. But it’s also developers and, and properties and artists studios. I mean, there’s this long history throughout the various cities throughout the world where there’ll be some rundown place, generally a warehouse district artists will move in, and then the homosexual community will move in, they will make it all better. They’ll make it all attractive, they’ll make it all hip and interesting. And then people then developers will come in and they’ll start renovating it. And they’ll make it so that artists and all these other people simply can’t afford to stay there. So they then have to move to another district. Yeah. And quite honestly, that’s what’s happening here. Yeah. artists have made this place so desirable and interesting. That now you’ve made it. So the people who own this property are going to turn around and out price you

Petra Hudcova 52:23
Yeah, definitely. It’s really interesting, because I’ve just been to London where I used to live. And I had a student I don’t know if you’re familiar with London, but

Matthew Dols 52:32
I used to live in Maida Vale at one point. Okay, so it was 20 years ago.

Petra Hudcova 52:37
Okay, so not too familiar. Okay, so I used to live in Hackney rich, and I also used to have a studio in Hackney. And now I went with my boyfriend to, I wanted to show him the studio. And I just couldn’t recognize the place at all. Because the Olympics had taken place, and the whole area hadn’t been trendy fi. And now there are these reminders of the facades of the graffiti and recall our district, but behind the facade, they’re like, expensive bars and football fans coming to have a drink. And it’s, it’s bizarre. It’s really bizarre, and I couldn’t even recognize the streets because the whole district had been changed. And that’s the thing is, artists and creative people drive economic development in a city.

Matthew Dols 53:35
But yet, were the ones more or less sort of treated like the lowest of the low, like, when artists want to move into an area. Nobody wants us there. But once we’re there, and we make the area better than everybody wants us there, and we can’t afford to be there.

Petra Hudcova 53:51
Yeah, it’s a story of gentrification.

Matthew Dols 53:59
It’s a form of a gentrification. But that’s that word gentrification. In my mind, I think, socio economic or racial? Is that what it means? I don’t know.

Petra Hudcova 54:11
I don’t know. Yeah. socio economic, I guess.

Matthew Dols 54:14
Yeah, I would say sure. Yeah. So like, poor areas get renovated, rich people move in, like, that’s to me. That’s gentrification. Yeah,

Petra Hudcova 54:21
okay. Yeah,

Matthew Dols 54:23
I don’t know. I’m always learning about new words. I like having a good vocabulary, okay. You work generally in a very conceptual format. I find the nature of having to write artist statements, a whole industry in and of itself. So do you write your own artist statements? Or do you somehow get in curators or other people to assist you in writing or do they write them for you do outsource it to somebody else? Or do you do them yourself?

Petra Hudcova 54:56
I usually write the statements myself. But wonder is an exhibition Usually, it’s the curator who writes the statement. And yeah, I like writing. Writing, I like writing. I’m not sure about statements, but I just like writing in general. So I guess writing is part of the practice as well. So it develops organically and naturally, I write things I make notes I, and then from that the statement can develop. It’s not always that way, but it happens.

Matthew Dols 55:39
I’m fascinated by artists statements in general, I do portfolio reviews, and I often happen to read or statements. Yeah. And I’ll tell you, I, that was the best learning experience for me on how to write a good artist statement by reading 1000s and 1000s of artists statements, because I now know what I believe is a bad artist statement, because

Petra Hudcova 56:02
it just says enough.

Matthew Dols 56:04
For me, they’re like, there are some different tears of different ways being bad, but like, overly intellectual, and overly academic, I find turns me off. So like, yeah, quoting Latin phrases. And even quoting great authors from history or obscure artists, I find that all kinds of turns me off maybe what I maybe maybe this is personal to me, my own issues, but like, any time to the statement makes me feel stupid. I don’t like it.

Petra Hudcova 56:45
personal issue,

Matthew Dols 56:47
I believe that’s a personal issue of my Oh, yeah. Because whenever I read a statement where somebody sounds very, very intellectual, and they be like, these great things, and I don’t know what those things yeah, I’m like, Fuck you. This. It suddenly just makes me feel like they’re these like shishi pompous arrogant people like, like, they’ve read so much more than me. There’s so much more not and I don’t appreciate that. Okay. That’s just me.

Petra Hudcova 57:20
Yeah, maybe I would say, No, because when I did my MA, there were a lot of people, it was nice, because the group was consisted of different people from different backgrounds. And there were, like people who had academic background, I came from humanities, and they definitely had a different approach and different way of writing, and different way of speaking and talking about art. And even though I also found it a bit, I found myself deep and sometimes like understanding what they were talking about. I, with some people, I knew that it was genuine. They just came from a different background. So Oh, yeah, no,

Matthew Dols 58:07
I mean, overly pompous.

Petra Hudcova 58:09
Yes. Okay.

Matthew Dols 58:10
A little bit of like, like, if they throw in like one or two things I don’t understand, I can tolerate that. That’s fine. But when like, the whole artist statement is like, referencing, Latin, this and that, and Plato’s cave, and all this kind of stuff, like throughout the whole thing. And there’s nothing else in it, other than this incredibly academic and intellectual stuff. That totally turns me off. I find that the ones that are most most successful are basically the ones that have an emotive equality that I can connect with, like a sincerity, vulnerability, these kinds of words. And I wonder, like, is this common? Or am I the odd man out

Petra Hudcova 58:53
to appreciate that kind of statement?

Matthew Dols 58:56
Yeah. Like, that’s my perspective. But like, but like, if I went to a museum, yeah, I would not expect to see that. Yeah, yes. On the wall. Yeah. curator would write something completely different. Yeah. But I feel like to try to make your art connect with a viewer. It needs some sort of thing to connect them and not a barrier of like, I’m so pompous and arrogant. I’ve got all this intellectual art speed.

Petra Hudcova 59:23
Yeah. I guess the person on the audience know.

Matthew Dols 59:27
Well, that’s okay. Well, and that leads to an excellent question. Yeah. Do you write different statements for different audiences? Or do you have one statement that you write to everybody

Petra Hudcova 59:37
on your level of like what you call baby statements that are more academic or I would say, mine is pretty mine are pretty consistent. But of course, there are different approaches depending on the subject or

Matthew Dols 59:56
let me clarify, yes, sir.

Petra Hudcova 59:57
But because you had talked about muzodo So let’s say

Matthew Dols 1:00:01
you make a piece like you got a piece here in your studio. Yeah, you make a piece and then you write an artist statement about that piece. Do you write different artist statements depending on who you’re submitting or showing it to? Or is it just one artist statement? That’s it.

Petra Hudcova 1:00:17
It’s an interesting question.

Matthew Dols 1:00:19
Why I asked.

Petra Hudcova 1:00:21
I guess I alter, I guess I have the recipient in my mind. In a way. Yeah. So I have to admit that I think about that. Or it’s not a bad. No, it’s not a bad thing. No, no, no, of course. So yeah. Yeah, for sure. Like the, the, the essence is the same, but the way it’s written, it can be different. It can alter, depending on the recipient. All right. Yeah. I don’t know if that answered your question. But I wanted to you mentioned me. And I was we went to Tate when I was in London. And I was so surprised by the writing there.

Matthew Dols 1:01:11
So Are they gone? The wall? Yeah.

Petra Hudcova 1:01:13
Yeah. Yeah. We’re in a really, I don’t know if it was a bad way. But it was so simple. I think, I think, I don’t know the tight policies. But I think they, when I lived in, in, in London, they had, they wanted to make it approachable for general public

Matthew Dols 1:01:33
is this Tate Modern, or

Petra Hudcova 1:01:35
it was both like modern anti Britain. And but now, it’s just it had been simplified 2.1 I think, I don’t know, a 10 year old child can understand or are or people who don’t speak very good English. Like the sentences were super simple. And I was just like, maybe off topic. I

Matthew Dols 1:02:00
mean, it’s an interesting issue. It’s basically like, when you’re approached when you’re offering art to the general public, which the general public is not necessarily as well informed. Yeah. Hated, or well read or anything like that. How far do you

Petra Hudcova 1:02:17
exactly, exactly, exactly. It was so dumbed down? Basically, I was shocked.

Matthew Dols 1:02:26
I’ll take that as a segue dumbing down. So social media. Do you use social media?

Petra Hudcova 1:02:33
Yeah, well, I use Facebook and Instagram,

Matthew Dols 1:02:36
Facebook and Instagram. Okay. I’m always fascinated. But how much do people use them? How much do they stress over? And how much time do they put in? And but mostly my most important and fascinating one is? Do you get any results from it? Like so have you been able to actually post something on a social media platform and in return, you get? I love this piece. I want to have it in part of my festival in New York case, or I love this piece. I would love to buy this like, kind of like direct one to one result. Yeah. Oh, something you get an actual result.

Petra Hudcova 1:03:13
Yeah, yeah. You have that I have had that happen when somebody bought my work. And I was commissioned to create record cover for a band. So that was nice collaboration. Sure. Yeah. And and people have bought work. But I teach in Ostrava, some I help. In Australia. There is a draw drawing course and the Australian University and I sometimes help out and there is a there is a student who has made his career through Instagram. It’s like a

Matthew Dols 1:03:58
defined made his career.

Petra Hudcova 1:04:00
Yeah, he actually makes a lot of money because he had a collector has found his work through Instagram, so

Matthew Dols 1:04:09
And have you asked him for his track? What what what did he do? what’s the what’s the thing that somehow made him stand out among the millions of people on Instagram?

Petra Hudcova 1:04:19
I haven’t asked him for about a string, but his work is very appealing. And I think I don’t know somebody liked his work and they they bought a lot of his paintings and and that gave him I guess the means to make more work and gave him now he is seen as very successful. So that’s nice. Thank you. If you find it strange and somebody finds

Matthew Dols 1:04:56
no one know when when you just described to me The the idea of like, he makes what was the term you use for what he makes?

Petra Hudcova 1:05:05
He makes very appealing work healing work?

Matthew Dols 1:05:08
Yeah, when I hear the term appealing work, I think tacky tourist, like just like pretty things that like could be turned into a refrigerator magnet or something like this. So like, I go to the lowest brow of dumb down. When I think of like, that kind of opportunity or availability. So like, so I don’t think that’s that’s true.

Petra Hudcova 1:05:31
Maybe that’s a that’s a wrong?

Matthew Dols 1:05:34
That’s me.

Petra Hudcova 1:05:35
Yeah. Okay. I didn’t mean it in a negative way. I just mean that it doesn’t work is appealing. And it doesn’t necessarily mean that it’s only appealing in in that way you described it.

Matthew Dols 1:05:49
Yeah, I’m utterly fascinated. I know, there are 10s of 1000s, maybe millions of artists out in the world that are making a living by selling their works through their social media platforms and their websites, and whatever. I’m fascinated by this, I would love to meet somebody who does that, because I know I’ve never met anybody that of course, I’ve seen news things about the more like things like this, but like, I don’t know, any of these people. They seem interesting. I mean, I’m wondering like, Is it the next way? Like, are? Am I just old and not keeping up with the times and they’re progressive and they’re ahead of the curve? Or? Or is what they’re doing going to fall apart at some point like is it is an idea that’s not going to withstand the practice of time, I was brought up with a my schooling of the idea of like, you create work that’s timeless, you know, so that whether it’s exhibited now, or it’s exhibited 100 years from now, it will still feel fresh and unique and all this kind of stuff. So

Petra Hudcova 1:07:06
that’s an interesting question. Actually, I was thinking about this the other day, whether you can measure because we seem to measure works, by the amount of time that they can withstand, or whether they can feel relevant to the times now. And they are seen as, as of quality, if they can, like if they can still be relevant to the times in 100 years time, or in 200 years time.

Matthew Dols 1:07:37
That’s the way I judge

Petra Hudcova 1:07:38
Yeah, but I’m not sure if it’s true, because some works fade away. But it doesn’t mean that the quality at the time that they were created was was of lesser value. Or maybe there are some more that go through, they come back, and then they fade away again, and

Matthew Dols 1:07:59
popularity, or there’s always a wave or a cycle.

Petra Hudcova 1:08:03
So I don’t know, if that’s the way to measure whether something can be relevant at different times. But that’s, you know what I mean, I

Matthew Dols 1:08:14
do and that actually leads to another question that I asked a lot, because I am fascinated by this as well. is how do you how would you for yourself in your own practice and your own life? define success? What what would have to happen in your artistic practice or your career, that you would sit back and say, I’ve been successful?

Petra Hudcova 1:08:42
Yeah. I think it’s, I guess, it’s when I make something that I feel happy with, that I feel it correspondent with the things I wanted to say. And that also keeps surprising me in a good way, when I look back at it. So when I look back at my work that I did five years ago, and I think, Wow, that was good. How did I do it?

Matthew Dols 1:09:18
So it stands the test of time?

Petra Hudcova 1:09:20
I guess. I just answered my own question.

Matthew Dols 1:09:29
If you had any advice for anybody else, through either failures or mistakes that you have made in your own career, or successes that you’ve had, what would it be?

Petra Hudcova 1:09:40
Okay. So, I would say, keep on making work despite the failures and, and successes, tried to be modest, and and just just work. That’s it. That’s that’s my answer. And maybe tried to find some source of faith that you can rely on, that doesn’t rely on the outside world. So something inside you that that keeps you coming back and carrying on

Matthew Dols 1:10:19
my last question, and this is one of the more difficult questions I will ever ask. As part of the podcast, I will do whatever you are about to tell me. And I will keep everybody involved in this process. I’ve chosen an institution, I’ve chosen the Museum of Modern Art in New York. And I said, I want to learn how the art industry works effectively, and basically learn the entire process of how the art industry works to the point that I want to be able to get a piece of my artwork exhibited in the Museum of Modern Art in New York. What do you believe I should do to start down that path of success? So one step one idea, one thing that I should try to do in order to get my work into that museum?

Petra Hudcova 1:11:17
A good question.

Matthew Dols 1:11:19
Doesn’t have to be a big thing. It can be a small thing. But in your mind, like if you’re trying to achieve that particular result, yeah, what would be something that you think would be helpful to that process?

Petra Hudcova 1:11:31
Wow, that’s an impossible question.

Matthew Dols 1:11:39
Don’t get me wrong, it is a difficult question. Because if if I knew the answer, I would already be doing it. Yeah. I don’t know the answer. And so I’m seeking everybody’s input on it.

Petra Hudcova 1:11:49
Yeah, I don’t know. I wouldn’t know what to do myself. I think it depends on so many different things like and it’s a big institution might not even happen in your lifetime.

Matthew Dols 1:12:01
Well, you could also just say Tate Modern than without would be if you did that makes it easier for you.

Petra Hudcova 1:12:07
But also, like, Huh, okay, type maanden

Matthew Dols 1:12:13
Yeah, Mama was just the one it Yeah, yeah, big institution. It could just be Guggenheim Bilbao honor. And it could be any sort of major international institution.

Petra Hudcova 1:12:26
How would you Why would you even want I was shown her

Matthew Dols 1:12:30
interest in your the not the first person to basically question that desire. Yeah. The reason why I chose that is simply as a vehicle for the podcast, to try to be tried to be able to give tangible results from the things that I’m learning. So that the artists or gallerists, or collectors or whatever can can hear about all the successes and failures that I have on trying to get to this thing, basically, creating a quantifiable goal for the learning that I’m achieving through the interaction of all the people that I’ve been able to talk with. That’s it. It’s not, this is not some personal aspirational goal. This is something I created for the podcast as a quantifiable example, that would say, I have learned how the art industry works well enough to achieve that goal. That’s why does that make sense? Yeah, kind of mean, don’t get me wrong. I would love to have a retrospective of my work. Or Guggenheim Bilbao, or the Guggenheim in New York or MoMA. I mean, of course, any artists would love to have that. But this is just about creating a quantifiable because how else do I quantify that I’ve learned about the arts industry? There’s no other real way to quantify I mean, the law so that there’s that quantifiable, but qualify, will be over time whether or not I’m able to create a sustainable career in the arts. Yeah, what I’ve learned, yeah, that’s not really quantifiable.

Petra Hudcova 1:14:15
Mm hmm.

Matthew Dols 1:14:16
So I’m just trying to create a a goalpost a thing to write.

Petra Hudcova 1:14:21
Yeah. Okay. And I just think you have to make the art, like top priority in your life, and do your practice top priority of

Matthew Dols 1:14:32
your spouse and your children. priority.

Petra Hudcova 1:14:36
Maybe, like if you’re lucky, you can include your your spouse and your children, but because you’re a man

Matthew Dols 1:14:45
Wow, that was kind of sexy. Why is that like, because I’m a man.

Petra Hudcova 1:14:50
Well, because, yeah, because I think probably it’s easier for men to have a career We’re alongside their personal lives. It’s a terrible way to finish the podcast.

Matthew Dols 1:15:08
I’m feeling like I’m being ostracized for me for being a white man, an American white man even. Yeah, which is fine. I feel that way. Most days in the arts.

Petra Hudcova 1:15:21
You’re not ostracized privileged,

Matthew Dols 1:15:24
you would think I’m privileged. But I, these days, I would say no, I don’t feel privileged. I feel that the the pendulum that swaying towards white male privilege has swung the other way. I feel and not to any bad that I have no bad feelings about it or not

Petra Hudcova 1:15:47
upset about it.

Matthew Dols 1:15:48
But I feel like the pendulum has swung the other way. And now, there’s a large emphasis on basically every body in the world that’s not white and male, which is everybody else. And I think that’s great. But and I just happened to be working at the time when the pendulum swung the opposite way from the white privileged male that I am. And in time, of course, I think it’ll come to some great equilibrium and balance. But right now, I believe that there’s actually a lot of interest in non white male artwork. Which I hate that that even existed in the first place. And I hate that there even has to be a pendulum that swings about this kind of, yeah. But no, I feel as a white male. Yeah, I’m not advantaged anymore. Visually, of course, yes. white males were absolutely advantaged.

Petra Hudcova 1:16:42
Yeah, maybe, you know, yeah, you’re definitely right. And it has swung maybe to different areas of interest and different viewpoints. And, and probably more so in the United States and, and other parts of Europe, I would say, the Czech Republic, still lacking behind, but I don’t know, I feel I feel that women are still not listened to even maybe as much as people from the LGBT community. So

Matthew Dols 1:17:22
don’t get me wrong, I’m my position on art is that art should be appreciated for the object or the experience and not for who made it. So like, when I go to a museum or go to an exhibition, I don’t care, what gender race, whatever age, I mean, any other sort of things that people can be biased against. I don’t care about that. I just looked at art quality. So good art, good. Quality art is good quality art, I don’t care who made it. So I think of myself as a reasonably non discriminative person in the way that I don’t care about gender and age and race and color, whatever. When I when I’m looking at art and engaging in art. Yeah, but I know I’m not normal that way. I know a lot of people, when they look at art, they look at it, and then they go, Oh, that person was from this place, or Oh, that person is a woman are all that. Like, I’ve heard many times like, Oh, that’s pretty good for a woman like that. Like you wouldn’t say that in a job in an office. You wouldn’t be like, well, they did their presentation at the at the meeting pretty well for a woman. But yeah, they do that in the art. Yeah. It’s I mean, it’s horrible. There’s just like, horrible double standards, triple standards, you know, sexism, racism. I mean, it’s prevalent to the arts.

Petra Hudcova 1:18:51
Yeah. And what about, you’ve mentioned this, like, open statement and direct statement, but there are also ways that are very underlying are they are not visible? Or? And I don’t know, also, I think because you’ve mentioned your spouse and your children. I still feel that, for example, if you have a family that it’s much more difficult for a woman to find time to devote her self to, to something other than a family.

Matthew Dols 1:19:27
You’re welcome to that opinion. I differ in that. Okay. I think if a woman is driven and has the desire, she has not just the right but the privilege, whatever. But if a woman feels the need to create art and and build her career, I don’t think that a family should hold her back any more than they should hold the man back. I’m very equal, equal opportunity. Yeah, I’m not saying anybody should ignore their families or anything like that, but I don’t believe it’s a gender specific thing. No, I don’t. I would like to believe that it’s not a gender specific thing. I

Petra Hudcova 1:20:07
also like to live in a world where gender doesn’t define these things,

Matthew Dols 1:20:15
but we don’t live in that world right now. Maybe someday. Yes, ma’am. All right. Well, thank you very much for your time.

Petra Hudcova 1:20:25
Thank you very much.

 

The Wise Fool is produced by Fifty14. I am your host Matthew Dols – www.matthewdols.com

All information is available in the show notes or on our website www.wisefoolpod.com