Transcript for Episode 015 – Painter, Jakub Tytykalo (Prague, CZ)

Published on September 9, 2019

Recording here: https://wisefoolpod.com/contemporary-fine-art-podcast-with-painter-jakub-tytykalo-prague-cz/

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Matthew Dols 0:12
Please pronounce your name correctly for me.

Jakub Tytykalo 0:14
Yeah, cool. Jakub Tytykalo

Matthew Dols 0:15
do you know where that comes from? Is that 100%? Check?

Jakub Tytykalo 0:18
No, it’s origin is Eastern. And it’s from Ukraine, I think where my grandfather comes from, and he was like six years ago, because there was a famine and the war starting or something. And I think it was about 1920 or something that he went out and with his parents, and then they came back again to some village where they multicolor named persons. And then he went also back to Slovakia. And then he met my grandmother and so so my grandfather was born so its origin is like this but everybody I asked him they they some some other people. They they’re telling me that it’s not it doesn’t sound Ukraine and or it sounds even some more exotic or something. I don’t know.

Matthew Dols 1:23
Interesting. Okay. Like I’ve done my family heritage and we come from Stuttgart Germany, actually, even though I didn’t want in America, but my family comes from Stuttgart and somewhere else in Germany. Dusseldorf. No, that’s not right. That’s Stuttgart and somewhere else. We’re German, like seven eighths. So all of our family names my, my mother’s maiden name is stall, which is extremely German. I know, where do you Where were you raised?

Jakub Tytykalo 1:52
I was raised in a small city named blood slough. And it’s, it’s the city between three of the gems I think I would say from the south and Moravia, which is lightning semi khilafah. volta. And these villages are very well known for their winery and wine cellars. And it looks almost like like a Tuscany in Italy. It looks looks similar. On paper. Yeah. So this is landscape. I was raised, let’s say in the city. And I’m always

Matthew Dols 2:27
fascinated about how people become artists. So the path the the the nature versus nurture kind of thing, like were you destined to be one because it was in your soul? Or was your what your parents did? Or your family did are some outside influence? Did that somehow sort of lead you to the path? So what did your parents do for livings? What was your sort of upbringing, your education and that sort of stuff?

Jakub Tytykalo 2:53
Yeah. My mother, she’s a translator. And my father is a clerk. He will he was actually he’s now retired, but he was a clerk at municipal government. And I think my mother was believing in my intuition. About what what I will do more than my father, but I think, I think all the way. They, they, they were, they had the heart out of times with me, I think at the high school as well. But But finally, I think it was one of the goals for me to make them proud and make them believe that it’s possible that their son will be a visual artist or something. And, and it’s finally happened. So so so my father, he was he was later with this believing in his son about this very card. But finally he finds out that it’s possible for me and

Matthew Dols 3:55
so you had very supportive mother. Yeah, first and then later a supportive father. Yeah. But But wait, so where did it started? You just picked it up. Did you have like some teachers some classes or things you did? Was it just natural? Like you just started creating things around the house? Yeah,

Jakub Tytykalo 4:11
I think it was. I was about to make some fantasy illustrations. First. It was my goal to become a fantasy illustrator because I had, you know, like, role models for days.

Matthew Dols 4:25
I played Dungeons and Dragons.

Jakub Tytykalo 4:26
Yeah. So So yeah, that was my first idea to become a fantasy illustrator and science fiction, Illustrator and I was drawing robots and this stuff and and so so I ended up after a few years I was studying as well. For the first year at the high school. I was studying calorie payment and car repair. Yeah, so so that was just one year and after after that I was studying get helaba, which is like a graphic school. And at that time, I didn’t know what, what field of visual art I would bake or I wasn’t sure about it. I was also thinking about the illustrations. So that was, that was a time I didn’t know about what I ended up doing because it was I was studying graphic design there. But it wasn’t really for me, I was feeling at that time that it’s not really the business I would go, you know, I

Matthew Dols 5:43
graphics design these days is very, very commercial based. It’s very difficult to be like a pure creative graphic designer, because you’re always answering to a brief or a client or something like this. It’s not like you just get to sit at home and design pretty things, you actually have to design things that people pay you to design. And that’s a very different world than I tried.

Jakub Tytykalo 6:07
In fact, I tried to do some, some commissions. But it was really hard to be the customer is always like, you know, it was the really I just really had for me to negotiate with the customer. And so

Matthew Dols 6:24
horrible, unrealistic expectations. And they have no idea how many hours you put into simply even thinking about the design, much less the actual designing of it. all they see is the end product, and they’re like what, that didn’t take you more than like 10 minutes to make. Yeah, but I had to think for three days and get inspiration and mean.

Jakub Tytykalo 6:45
And so demotivating when there’s some, some Customer Picks, the you know, the proposal that it’s one of the horrible ones, yeah, then

Matthew Dols 6:56
so you always pitch three you pitch a horrible one. One that fits exactly what they want, and then the one that you really love, and they always they never picked the one yeah,

Jakub Tytykalo 7:06
sure, sure. Yeah. And that’s that was so demotivating so I I was thinking instantly about some other some other you know, stuff with that was the time after school, by the way that I made these commissions, I was also trying to figure out how to make some profit and, and so so that was the hard times I think that it was a jumping from for the different different.

Matthew Dols 7:33
I wonder how old you are actually from other stories. By the way, how old are

Jakub Tytykalo 7:38
you? 34

Matthew Dols 7:39
I’m still young?

Jakub Tytykalo 7:41
I think so you still

Matthew Dols 7:42
you still can apply for young artists grants. Or Thank you last year, though, because 35 is the cut off for years.

Jakub Tytykalo 7:52
I was thinking about it this way. So yeah, that was that was after school, it was the hardest spirit I think for me. It was I was trying different jobs as well. And I work in agriculture for some time, some time some months. But somehow it happens that that I beer here at Graham and and I made some exhibition here and then Okay, wait, how

Matthew Dols 8:21
long is this gap time? So from graduating from school to getting to prom studios, how many months or years? That was

Jakub Tytykalo 8:28
two years?

Matthew Dols 8:29
I think that’s pretty fast, actually in the grand scheme of the art world.

Jakub Tytykalo 8:34
Yeah, but yeah, it’s the promise, I think promise special from this because it’s, it’s, it doesn’t. It’s not the commercial. We don’t pay, for example, the commercial rent so we can, you know, it’s more accessible for artists, but in this, but it’s not very open for another people because we are staying here for a long time, you know, so So only sometimes somebody went out of pram and somebody new comes and that happens to me. Actually, that happened to me before those three years, I think. And so I came up here and I was able to make exhibition and some guy from an auction house game at that time, and he picks one painting for auction and then it starts to me making enough money for living and

Matthew Dols 9:31
wait, wait, it just happened that easily for you. You wait, let me get this clear. Let me try and explain what I just heard. You came to prom. You got a studio at prom. You had one exhibition, and auctioneer found your work, put your work in an auction. It’s sold and now you make a living.

Jakub Tytykalo 9:49
Yeah, it’s sort of starts the evolution of this. Like accidents you can say and it was for me. It was Really like this, it’s changed quite a lot. Because before that, so make example before that, I saw some paintings, yes, but it was just from time to time. And it wasn’t it was, it was it was far from regular. And, you know, like, that was the breaking point where it’s really changed quite a lot. And, and after that after this action guy, also some quite large collectors came and they also bought a few pieces for quite a good Sam and it’s it’s, than it was possible for me to, to live from that reserve from that, you know, money.

Matthew Dols 10:45
And so at this point now, because this is how many years ago? How many years? Have you been at prom?

Jakub Tytykalo 10:53
It’s three and a half years. Okay,

Matthew Dols 10:54
so for three so at this point, you’re solely and only making art you have no other jobs, or side job no other part time job. Yeah, for I am horribly jealous. I just wanted to sort of throw that out at you, it just

Jakub Tytykalo 11:10
it’s now three years. I’m just painting and it’s somehow it’s just, I don’t know, it’s working, you know, when I believe in, you know, in the higher like nothing to God, but universes in the universe, which, you know, somehow helps me in time to somehow make make living and, and it was it was quite good from the beginning because it has it has some gaps, you know, with this this earnings, but, but somehow I figured out how to how to live with the money I actually have at this point. And then,

Matthew Dols 11:52
okay, so well, that leads to sort of a question of like, first of all, are you married kids? animals?

Jakub Tytykalo 11:58
No, no, no.

Matthew Dols 11:59
So you’re just by yourself. So you’re so to a certain extent, your cost of living is very, very low.

Jakub Tytykalo 12:06
Yeah.

Matthew Dols 12:07
You don’t have anybody else relying on your income. Yeah,

Jakub Tytykalo 12:10
that would be a different story. I

Matthew Dols 12:12
think that will because I’m married and I have cats and things like this and the silly there are external pressures on me too soon. Yeah. So anyways, I’m very envious of you to not have these pressure I

Jakub Tytykalo 12:25
can imagine. Yeah. It is. It’s it’s good and bad. I think. I also plan to have family at one sometime, but now I know we’re enjoying I’m enjoying the freedom of being alone and have this also when, when some opportunity to travel comes and try some residency, then I can go and no, I don’t have to. For some others needs since and so on. So

Matthew Dols 12:57
short ground. So this goes so your cost of living is reasonably so low. So this this this I can live from by my art, I’m doing air quotes on that, like I live from my heart. That’s not a high level, let’s say like you’re not saving a ton of money and have you getting ready to buy a house and car. But But you’re basically covering all your costs. You’re not concerned about money. And you’re you’re happy?

Jakub Tytykalo 13:24
Yeah. Okay. It’s sometimes it’s sometimes the standards is going a bit up and down. So so you don’t eat out that much as much. Yeah, I again, I was first year first two years, I didn’t. I didn’t go anywhere or most, some vacancy, let’s say or something. But the 30 I was in Mexico, for example. So when you get done.

Matthew Dols 13:57
Specifically were in the Yucatan

Jakub Tytykalo 14:00
to Rome, and also and have you been to this yellow, cool Lagoon, if you know and that was one of the for example, that was the one of the most beautiful places.

Matthew Dols 14:14
No, I stayed in Playa Del Carmen and visited there twice. So did all the gobar to two looms. Yes. All up and down the coast.

Jakub Tytykalo 14:22
Yeah, the pyramids, for example, as well at recall the name, but it’s it does a lot of sites like the pyramids, sites, sinkholes, as well.

Matthew Dols 14:33
The caves or flooded caves and

Jakub Tytykalo 14:37
the sanitation

Matthew Dols 14:39
it’s been decades since I’ve been there. But

Jakub Tytykalo 14:42
yeah, it was one of the most beautiful places I’ve traveled so far. So I will I plan to go there for sure. Once again, at least once Belize is

Matthew Dols 14:51
also beautiful. Looks a little further down. Yeah, Mexico’s gorgeous Hmm.

Jakub Tytykalo 14:56
I think that they uncovered some, some sets They actually I don’t know like one half year ago, they founded this this largest Mayan city in the between Guatemala and you get them. They found in there is a large forest and they uncovered they are trying to uncover the city. I don’t take decades. But I plan to go that I wanted to manage once it uncovered soldier.

Matthew Dols 15:24
Yeah, I was beautiful that that entire sort of turquoise coast all up and down. very relaxing. Very inspiring.

Jakub Tytykalo 15:33
Yeah. And the museum’s that they have with the Mayan sculptures, and it’s really really beautiful.

Matthew Dols 15:42
I don’t remember the museum’s I remember the beach? I remember.

Jakub Tytykalo 15:46
It was Yeah, we were on the on this island. near to Cancun. It was Islamic Harris. I think there was like, it’s just like, really small island. And but it was like, paradise, you know?

Matthew Dols 16:01
So why did you come back to Prague?

Jakub Tytykalo 16:03
I wanted to stay that’s

Matthew Dols 16:06
why she believes back to the questions are Why are you now in Prague? Well, so what’s you went to school? When you went to school? Where were you? At school in? Pa?

Jakub Tytykalo 16:17
I was black? Alright, then,

Matthew Dols 16:23
do me a favor, because I’m not fully knowledgeable. And I’m sure the people listening don’t know much about this, if anything, prom what what is prom studios?

Jakub Tytykalo 16:33
Oh, well, it’s a like a group of people. I don’t know, what’s, what’s the exact name, but we’re officially a group. And we the members, and we degree meetings and so on. And we are having a gallery here as well. And he’s just, it’s just a really, really like a loose group of people. You know, we don’t have some some program or something. We’re just working. Everybody’s working on his own stuff. And we are making collective exhibitions, as well. So the primary function of the problem is the working workspace for artists. We have six studios, with 11 artists, we have also residencies. And that’s that’s our program to like the run the gallery first and just work here.

Matthew Dols 17:27
And how is this place funded? Is this privately funded or publicly funded?

Jakub Tytykalo 17:32
We funded from some commissions we have here, we rent the space for different actions from for some companies for shooting of commercials, and so Okay, so, movies. So that’s how we found the heating and electricity and send some necessary necessary things that you know, we have to do here.

Matthew Dols 17:56
Interesting. How was it founded? Who created it?

Jakub Tytykalo 18:00
Yeah, well, it has a it has history, because it was before it was truffle, truffle studio. And so it it was connected with the truffle Chicka chicka cultural centers before and, and after that it became becomes this prompts to do and with less known artists, but it’s, it has I don’t know about development, for sure. But there are a lot of people from a sculpting studio came here. And they know me as well. They knew me so so they invited me because one of the sculptures was moving to London at the time, because she gets pregnant. So So I came here and working here. And yeah,

Matthew Dols 18:48
so there are these good, basically these core group of people that are the group, a group of core artists that sort of stay here and run the place, and then there are the residences that come in and out. And and then you all run the gallery. And that’s pretty much it. So it’s very self sufficient. And very, it just sort of does its own thing. You don’t you’re not beholden to some sponsors or government mandates. This is very independent.

Jakub Tytykalo 19:15
Yeah. actually tried to for some grants, but we I think we didn’t get any from the municipality. So we are still just self funded. We can say that,

Matthew Dols 19:28
because might be better for you.

Jakub Tytykalo 19:29
Yeah, I think it would be also good if somebody would fund our residential program because we would be able to give artists some some money, you know, to realize a project to you showing the gallery so that would be I think that will be good. And I hope in the future, we will get to this situation where it can be, you know, you can give them money as well. Not only the space and exhibition You know, which we are funding from our money? But, yeah, I think it would be good. If it develops this way that we can probably also cooperate with some some similar spaces or some similar organizations in and abroad, you know, and NAB some exchange programs, something like that. I think it’s the, it’s the, the art develops this this way with connecting people with Instagram as well, you know, you can see, everybody has to be working with how the work is developing. And so I think it’s also with this connection with some other, let’s say, like a group of artists, and they can exchange also experience and everything. That leads

Matthew Dols 20:48
me to a fabulous question that I like asking everybody social media, how much do you use that? How effective? Is it? Is it worth your time? Like, do you stress over it, you lose sleep over what the right hashtags are?

Jakub Tytykalo 21:02
Yeah, I started to thinking about it, like, three years ago, I get my Instagram. And yeah, I can’t say that. It develops to the point that it’s more and more important, but it’s still, you know, the physical or the, when you have physical contact with somebody and you talking with somebody in person, that’s that it’s better. I think it’s still it’s still, and it wouldn’t be, you know, ever out of date. But it’s, it’s helps to have some presentation on this, for example, on Instagram, because a lot of people can see that they would never come to gallery, or they don’t have time for coming to gallery, for example, they live in a different country. Yeah, sure. Sure. Exactly. So this is how you can reach them. And not only by making an exhibition and or waiting for somebody to offer you an exhibition, you know, and so and so. So that’s that’s opportunity, I think, the social media opportunity. So has a social media get had any direct outcomes for you. So they can you point, ABC, like a direct line of I posted this thing on social media, and it gave me this opportunity or this sale or this whatever. Have

Matthew Dols 22:28
you had that experience? Yeah,

Jakub Tytykalo 22:30
I do. Yeah, I do. Like, when I publish some artwork, on the Instagram, there are some sometimes. Yeah, sometimes last summer. Not uncertain amount of time about that people asked me about the exact app work, which is on Instagram, for example, if it’s available, or something, and then yes, this sale will come.

Matthew Dols 23:02
So you had actual sales, like literally you posted an image on social media, and somebody has basically seen it and bought that piece?

Jakub Tytykalo 23:11
Well, yeah. Yeah. And not only once, so. So yeah, that’s, that’s for me. For me. It’s important, you know, like, presentation. For me.

Matthew Dols 23:25
It’s very nice. Yeah, you’re in a very enviable position.

Jakub Tytykalo 23:30
Maybe.

Matthew Dols 23:31
So beyond that, do you? Do you have a gallery that represents you here in Prague beyond the exhibiting in Brahm? No, no,

Jakub Tytykalo 23:39
I don’t have a presentation in a in a gallery. But I did have I actually have some paintings in some galleries. But it’s, I wouldn’t take it as a representation because they are selling for example, a lot of artworks and they have in deposits some of my work still, but my older works, but now I don’t try to incorporate this this way with the gallery. So

Matthew Dols 24:05
why,

Jakub Tytykalo 24:07
alright, because nobody asked me. You know, we have

Matthew Dols 24:11
to be a little proactive. I mean, nobody be there not going to come to you necessary.

Jakub Tytykalo 24:16
Maybe yes, yes. To No, like, shy to right. To ask the gallery, you know, about making a cooperation maybe? I don’t know. It’s a I think this works more on a personal contact with with people, you know, like when you come to the vernissage to open a bank and, you know, somebody introduced you with somebody and then you you know, if it’s a good conversation, for example, then then it develops in some idea of exhibition or something. Probably. Oh, yeah.

Matthew Dols 24:53
I mean, throughout these conversations that I’ve been having with people constantly the basically the the foundation of all art business Is relationships. So it’s always people in lay people, you appreciate people you respect that you want to cooperate with work with whatever word you want to put to it. I agree. doundation

Jakub Tytykalo 25:14
Yeah, I agree. Absolutely. Yeah. But I’m also sometimes it’s hard for me just to, you know, address somebody at the venue sashes, you know, I’m not. I don’t I try not to be, you know, like to pushing my art, you know? And so that’s, I think it’s, it’s has to, you have to be like, touched by the artwork, let’s say somehow to make contact with some countries. Yeah, I think I think that somebody has to see something in the artwork, and then then to, you know, to make contact with the artist. And some of the girls asked

Matthew Dols 25:56
me, it’s an interesting issue because I’m in I’m a professor and of course, I went through art school and all this and our, my training and my background, and all the people I knew is always more about being very proactive, and putting together your portfolio, taking it to the galleries. And then of course, then trying to build these relationships. But it seems like it’s a lot of people in the European market sort of do it more or less proactively and more. It happens when it happens, you know, the, meet the right people, when I meet the right people, it doesn’t seem quite as making me mad, I come from American capitalistic societies, all this kind of stuff. So like, it’s a very different sort of almost a laissez faire attitude, like, you make good work, you show good work. And if people like it, and are moved by, in some way, they will approach you and that’s it. You like doing your own publicity and being your own marketing person. They sort of not really like frowned upon, but it’s not common here.

Jakub Tytykalo 26:59
Yeah, I think so. This was this was the Instagram is folded, you don’t have to make it that much.

Matthew Dols 27:06
that personal touch?

Jakub Tytykalo 27:07
Yeah, I know. I know. It’s, it’s, it’s, it’s really, it’s really hard to know, to say the right methods of making these making these contacts. Because it’s also some a lot of rumors and a lot of gossips in the art world. And so let’s and they do groups like like, it seems like they’re groups of artists who hates you know, the commercial galleries, and it’s, like a leftist are seen. And so they opinion this is not to make art, like commercial,

Matthew Dols 27:49
don’t make art for sale make art for the sake of making art, none of that idea. Yeah, I’ve known a lot of people like that in my life. And sooner or later, they simply can’t afford to continue doing that.

Jakub Tytykalo 28:01
Yeah, that’s exactly what I’m experiencing. I would, I would I would I see. Among artists I know, then just not working out, doing different jobs, not ads. And so you know, it’s, for me, it’s more important. The money I make from art it for me, it’s important because I can come to New and I can develop some thinking or some language that I’m working with. And I can make it deeper and deeper, and I don’t have to share my like, you don’t

Matthew Dols 28:35
have to split your time to work a job. That’s irrelevant. And then you’re working. The Okay, so when you’re making your work? Do you write your own artist statements? Also? Or do you like to collaborate with somebody else to write those?

Jakub Tytykalo 28:50
Yeah, sometimes both. I think sometimes I write it down by myself. But But yeah, it happened, as well that I got paired up with somebody. So it happens. It’s different from opportunity to opportunity. You know,

Matthew Dols 29:07
it’s been what interests me is like, when you wrote your own, and you put that out into the world, versus when you cooperate with somebody else. I’m assuming this was like your curator that helped you out with writing. Was the reception different like this? Or did people the general public today, engage more appreciate more enjoy more your personal writings or something being written by somebody else?

Jakub Tytykalo 29:32
I don’t know exactly. How to know because this is some something that I I don’t often discuss with people so they have their own opportunities and they don’t know about you know, if they really appreciate I think, quite a lot of people are having their own description of my paintings. They have different opinions, they see different things and For me, they have, you know, like, like, they have different experience lifetime experience. So they are looking through different eyes. And and it’s true of everything, I think this this, for me, that’s one of the funniest and most motivational things that I see these different views of the image, you know, I created. So so the associations.

Matthew Dols 30:26
And that’s great from an artistic standpoint, but from not a business standpoint, but from a professional standpoint of when you’re going to apply for grants, or you’re going to look for a prop pie for residencies, enter competitions, I, you know, what, all these different things that exists in the world these days, that mandate, some form of a written statement that describes your work, I feel like these are becoming more and more common. I don’t remember having to do written statements 25 years ago, or at least nowhere near as much as is currently asked for. So I’m finding that the written statement is becoming more important. Much like even in social media, like, you can’t just put up an image on Instagram, you actually have to put an image with hashtags, because that’s how people will find your so the ability to find words that effectively express your idea is becoming more

Jakub Tytykalo 31:24
Yeah, sure. If you mentioned Instagram, I think is more maybe some sometimes, because I always I’m having sometimes fun with the hashtags. And so like, artwork, some of the Instagram accounts, it looks like, you know, artwork itself, you know, you can, you know, it’s it’s developing, it’s still developing, but it is genre, you know, like, you can use hashtags, you can use probably a few, if you put if different hashtags that are not really according to the theme of the picture, and then you create some associations, some different ones, and then maybe you can put really, the hash tags, according to the painting and you can differ, you can, you know, present it with a totally different way that then it just appears in a gallery or if you know,

Matthew Dols 32:19
and URL is something you do is that you play around with your hash. Yeah, sometimes I do sort of recontextualization

Jakub Tytykalo 32:28
mitzvah, I’m trying to, because because there’s there is space for this. It’s sometimes not, not every time but this is the description and also also the text also, some, some text can be like this, you know, you can write text, which can be prone to the idea of the painting, you know, like you can, you can make it perfect

Matthew Dols 32:54
to the idea of the painting. But you could also do stuff that’s random or, or just different contents.

Jakub Tytykalo 33:01
Thanks to it acts as a as a genre, you know, like witches, because you have paintings you have artwork and, and then you have the description, and you can really play with it. Like, it’s, it’s, it’s connected, but the connection doesn’t mean that there has to be description, really description, exact description of the artwork, you know? So maybe if, if it’s sometimes better to just write down a few hashtags about the artwork, then to write down the article about it. So

Matthew Dols 33:37
so like, do like 50% of your hashtags very specifically, directly about what the image is. And then like the other 50%, do something sort of, yeah, creative. Something that’s Mia might be associated Yeah,

Jakub Tytykalo 33:50
maybe maybe this is like 70 30% 70 70%, precise 30%. Okay, that’s good. Like, creating an algorithm to work with the algorithm. It’s like,

Matthew Dols 34:09
from my training and background in America, I was sort of taught to be very much about creating a product. So when I make a piece of art, the highest accolade that somebody could give me basically is desiring to own it and buy it and put it in their home and experience that every day for themselves. I’m very much of a object based artist. So you create an object and then then somebody appreciates it. Do you think the same way?

Jakub Tytykalo 34:36
Yes, I can imagine the out of all sorts sorts of artwork, you know, like that can exist next to each other on the market or on the scene. I think that the conceptual art has its has its face for a reason. I think here it just depends what your description of artwork It was the you know what, how it’s, if it’s painting sculpture or some some different than something between, you know, and some video or something, but like I, I

Matthew Dols 35:11
find that there’s almost like tears these days of different arts that are created and exists because like, there’s art that basically your average person on the street could come in and want to buy, because it’s of a size of a scale of a medium and whatever that is sort of could fit in anybody’s home. And then there’s a higher level where there’s not a higher level different level, where there’s the performance art video or sort of temporary performance performative kinds of things. And then there are the massive scale stuff, things that are colossal in size, and and literally can only be purchased or acquired in some way by a collection or museum or an institution. And so do you hope to sort of get up to that massive scale? Or do you like do? Are you striving to think

Jakub Tytykalo 36:02
Yeah, that would be that’s I don’t I wouldn’t say that it’s, it’s the certain point where I’m leading, but if I have opportunity to make installation, yeah, sure. I would make installation in maybe larger space. I have to, I would have to think about it for a longer time. But since you’re asking about this, I was I made a little sculpture lately. I made. It’s it’s a bit of like, architectural sculpture. So yes. Now I can, you know, responded to that. Yes, I would, I would make a larger installation as well. It’s, it’s not really a goal for me. But if the opportunity comes to make it certain, then I would for sure, yeah. Have you

Matthew Dols 36:48
found over the course of your career that your scale of your art work? Because I’ve had this experience, like when I live in a small apartment and have a small studio, I make small work when I have a big studio and a big house, then I make big work? Like, do you notice that your work is changing in the reference to your work life experiences?

Jakub Tytykalo 37:10
Yeah.

Matthew Dols 37:12
Or is it by opportunities? Like, are you given opportunities, and suddenly, you can work at different scales?

Jakub Tytykalo 37:16
Yeah, it’s about opportunity, for sure. And finish the school with the larger paintings, that’s, you know, like two times three meters. And then then I moved to the nice finish school and didn’t have opportunity to use the school studio. So after that, I was making a drawing. So with pencil, which was like, just 100 centimeters per 70 centimeters. So like, a two, four might

Matthew Dols 37:47
end on paper, so you could store it much easier than you.

Jakub Tytykalo 37:52
It wasn’t, it wasn’t even possible. I know, I cannot imagine at that time, there’s somebody bought this sludge painting for me. So. So it was also this because of this practical reasons. And yeah, and after, after that, I get the studio here and I was able to make and then I was also thinking about the scale of the for example, about the, the figures that it has to be some sort of like a realistic scale for me, and it works much better for me than that with a large format of paintings that I can, you know, put the figures in it. And it’s the scale is very important for me actually with the artwork. So

Matthew Dols 38:36
okay. jumping forward on different on a different idea. Success. It’s a very charged word. I know it’s a very loaded word. But what give me a definition for you of success, what what would be something where you would sit back at the end of the day and just go, I’ve done this right?

Jakub Tytykalo 38:54
Well, I would like to have a large studio in the countryside. I would like to have a studio or maybe a large studio here in Prague and I’d be able to make make art as I can imagine it you know, I would have no concerns about money or about you know, anything that’s that’s not necessary. You know, that’s Yeah, success is to have family for example, I think that so it’s now it’s fine for me. I don’t know how far But one

Matthew Dols 39:33
way

Jakub Tytykalo 39:37
takes. Okay, okay. So, yeah, the success for me personally, or any carrier like after scary it would be this it would be to be maybe represented by some gallery to have a studio and the freedom including the money you know, which you have to have money to have freedom and I think it’s And nowadays, it’s it’s connected quite well, very much

Matthew Dols 40:03
your definition is almost verbatim my definitions, yes is lovely.

Jakub Tytykalo 40:07
So I would have to, I would, I would be able to travel for some exhibition, if I want to see an exhibition, which is very important in New York, then I would have, you know, my enough money and time to visit it, for example, and to I would be able to get inspiration wherever I see it, you know, that would be a little bit more

Matthew Dols 40:30
money, I think in mind.

Jakub Tytykalo 40:32
Sure, sure. But this, I think, is a very good reason. Or, you know, if you see the, the good reason behind making money, then then it’s that it’s good. And possibly,

Matthew Dols 40:43
it’s great. So you and I sort of are on the same page on the the sort of the, the end result of what what we’re looking for the the pinnacle of the career kind of an idea. What are some things that you are doing that are trying to actively get you there?

Jakub Tytykalo 41:00
Oh, well, maybe I’m trying, not trying so hard to do it. But but most of most of it, I’m just trying to make the best artwork I can. I think that’s the that’s one of the orders. The first thing you have to start with making the best best you can. And

Matthew Dols 41:20
yeah, but I mean, if I sit down and look at my best work from 20 years ago, now, I think it’s crap. Because like, I think my newer works better. So I mean, you’re always progressing and evolving. So like you just you can always just make the best at that time with the resources you have with the money and the time and everything that you have. But what you know, are you doing anything? I guess the question is, are you doing anything to get yourself to that place that studio outside of town and all that kind of stuff?

Jakub Tytykalo 41:52
Oh, you mean like making relationships? With some people? Making relationships? Saving money?

Matthew Dols 42:01
buying land? I don’t know, maybe that’s No, no,

Jakub Tytykalo 42:04
no, no, no, none of this. None of this. To be honest, I’m I’m really just trying to do the best and to present myself on this Instagram and to make a good exhibitions. And that’s, I don’t do any, like embedded marketing, I think, you know, I’m not good at it. Only only do this list things like Instagram and work in a studio. And, you know, that’s that’s all I think. Maybe it’s, it’s not enough, but I hope I hope it’s enough time.

Matthew Dols 42:42
Okay, what about your work ethic, because this is something that comes up a lot with other artists, because some artists only go in the studio when they’re inspired. Some artists are in the studio every day nine to five, whether they’re inspired or not, and they still are doing something like been researching whatever learning talking what, like, what’s your sort of work ethic?

Jakub Tytykalo 43:06
Yeah. And that’s, I think, describe me as well as some south east west to have inspiration, sometimes I try to push myself in a studio without it, but the result is not, you know, that’s the good for me. So, I tried to I try to sometimes to work, but I have to have an uncertain idea. Which you know, like, I see potential in it. And then then in the works, the result will come like, in a good way, no good result for me. And I cannot push myself I sometimes, sometimes I don’t really know where the right time comes for painting, but it’s somehow by intuition. Somehow, you know, I try to, like gather inspiration before before that I go to studio and make some painting. That’s what I do when I when I am trying to figure out some idea. But

Matthew Dols 44:11
okay, which actually, then also leads to the idea of, how do you get your inspirations, first of all that so we’ll start there. How do you get your inspirations?

Jakub Tytykalo 44:21
Yeah, and trying to get it from almost everywhere, like it feels iffy, like, literature, some, like old movies, for example, some, like I’m watching old news from from before, 50 years, which broadcasting the check television or new news like the 50 years ago, and they’re playing it’s like now what what happened, what was happening like in everyday life, and so on, before the 50 so it’s interesting for me, for example, historical documents and also Instagram an internet Yeah, and I, I’m, I have my, like, I have artists which are interested in the work and, and so I’m trying to, you know, like, if it’s if it’s from history, then I try to find out as much artwork as I can and, and to and think about how I can you know, like use it for my inspiration. And that’s not like recycling but but you know, like to use some idea or to some, you know, inspire develop

Matthew Dols 45:37
now, okay, so then when you start to work, do you work? In a body of work? Do you actively sit and say, Okay, I’m going to make 10 of these. And that’s it. So like, do you have a plan for your work when you start it? Or do you simply work reactively and then once it’s done you in hindsight, look back at work and go away? Yeah, these all fit together?

Jakub Tytykalo 46:03
Mostly, mostly, I didn’t work with series,

Matthew Dols 46:07
I just do not work with

Jakub Tytykalo 46:09
no, not really, I only make like three or four paintings, but but it’s very rare. I think I’m working on each piece. Like, only only single piece at once. I’m working on only, like, it has to be, like unique because it it has to be like fun to for me to make it and I think if I would push myself in some some series of works, then it wouldn’t be it wouldn’t be that fun for me. I have to know like, see the reason some are accurate? I don’t know how it sounds, but this you know, for me, there has to be a certain like reason to work on this artwork somehow. As it’s not like, I cannot describe it. It’s not really describable I think you know, this, this inspiration, but I have to enjoy the painting. And if I if I try to make some series of like 10 paintings is wouldn’t be that enjoyable for me? I think. So the results also wouldn’t be that good. I have to be inspired and have fun with, with art with, like, Russian colors.

Matthew Dols 47:20
Having fun is a great thing that I’m in no way. questioning your desire to have fun. We all want to enjoy our studio. Otherwise, why do we do it? Yeah. So when that little you know, some let’s get into like little nuances of some of the technical things. Do you title your works?

Jakub Tytykalo 47:40
Yes. But also, as I said, with the hashtags, I also use the name, sometimes a bit different way, then then only by a description, or some sometimes Yeah, but I title outworks. Okay, because as I take it this genre as well.

Matthew Dols 48:00
The question I’m trying to get to about titling of works is, first I needed to know if you’d what titled your works? And then once I know that, it’s how do you title your work? So do you do it literally? Do you do it metaphorically? Do you do it conceptually? Like what? So for you? I’m not asking for anybody else in the world, but like, for your method of choosing titles to your works? How do you do that?

Jakub Tytykalo 48:24
It’s not the exact just one method I use mostly, but mostly I use associations. As I gather the inspiration. It’s it’s some are also also influenced this this titles, but the final title for the painting, it comes out of association. So it’s if it’s from antique Rome, or if it’s from the Christian mythology and something or most of the examples, I think I know the title when I’m making the sketch. So So from the beginning, but now I think it 50% that happens to have a title when the painting is finished. So after it’s after it’s finished, and it’s also like sometimes surrealistic method a bit. Sometimes it’s made, maybe you can say go on conceptual and some sometimes it’s the opposite, you know, but mostly mostly this association.

Matthew Dols 49:23
Okay. It Do you mind talking about pricing?

Jakub Tytykalo 49:26
No, I think

Matthew Dols 49:28
okay, because everybody always asked this, every young artist and people who are getting into the industry and starting out kind of stuff, they always say how do you price your work? What’s your methodology for pricing or creating the price? Do you have to do you have like a methodology?

Jakub Tytykalo 49:45
Well, some friends from Academy when we were talking about it, and I didn’t sell, I don’t know I sold like do small pieces before that and and then I was asked to Put some artworks in a gallery. So I was thinking about it. And he, he got this. He, I don’t know, he maybe he was told about somebody else do but he told me about this like index, which you can make, you know, like for one square centimeter, you can have this this index for one square centimeter. and for one one, and I don’t know how half to crowds and then you you know, count the so it’s like a technical degree, you

Matthew Dols 50:35
literally are like charging by the square centimeter

Jakub Tytykalo 50:38
is just a hint, you know, is when you don’t know how to how to make the price then then it’s then this is this, this is the hint how to make it how probably you can you can price. Do you do that now? Very rarely, I don’t I don’t know that. I am counting sometimes about. But usually it’s it’s different. And sometimes Yes. Sometimes when I don’t know about how can I you know, but it’s it depends on my prices are not changing that much or not not going up that much now. So. So basically, I know how, how much one outwork us, or how was the price? For one outwork by the model, scale? Sure, with the larger formats, and with the middle ones. And so I have this amount like for for each category, let’s say.

Matthew Dols 51:41
So at this point, you’ve gotten yourself a reasonably good collector base and some good contacts and the people buying your works here in the region. Do you exhibit outside of the Czech market?

Jakub Tytykalo 51:54
Yes, I had an exhibition in Switzerland once a year ago. And, and I think some of my graphics, some of my prayers were in a Hungary’s file when I was at Academy. And I had one painting on a figurative BNL in California was at one outwork that,

Matthew Dols 52:23
and how does these other markets work for you? Have you seen any distinct interest?

Jakub Tytykalo 52:28
Yes, I saw the painting in Switzerland. And so so and so this, this, this one artwork to one American who came into our studios, and he was is running a gallery, so. So that’s only only things I experienced with this.

Matthew Dols 52:49
And none of that said, hey, maybe I should try to do some more in these markets.

Jakub Tytykalo 52:54
Yeah, in Switzerland plus possibly those there are some opportunities that that I will make another exhibition and some some sorts of businesses now. So let’s that’s in development now.

Matthew Dols 53:08
Right? What because one of my questions that I’m asking everybody is the product market while it’s interesting, and it has its character to it, it’s not as mature as let’s say Berlin and London and Paris and all these. So being in Prague, you only have so many collectors and so many opportunities that at a certain point kind of you run out of collectors. So you really do have to at some point get yourself out in debt. So that is sort of question would be like on in from your experiences in your friends and knowledge and stuff. Where would be a good place outside of Prague as a second market to sort of go towards

Jakub Tytykalo 53:54
Well, yeah, I think the Berlin wouldn’t be one of the choices even though there are rumors that it’s always not that good as it sounds This was before or something I’ve heard same rumor. Yeah. Yeah.

Matthew Dols 54:12
This is a very you heard that it’s moving from Berlin actually to I think Munich is is now becoming sort of the more artistic

Jakub Tytykalo 54:21
MB pure rumor

Matthew Dols 54:23
speculation. I have no personal experience.

Jakub Tytykalo 54:26
I haven’t heard exactly this rumors, but I think also in Leipzig, and and some sometimes other cities maybe but London for sure. But it’s it’s very expensive city. So no, if you just try to live the Brexit coming up. It’s

Matthew Dols 54:45
actually getting really cheap right now.

Jakub Tytykalo 54:47
Maybe Yeah, maybe maybe. Maybe it was like the makes it so it would make make it accessible, maybe for artists as well. I don’t know. I would share with you Maybe New York, I think it is sad here that that if you have a solo exhibition in New York and it’s successful, then it would be like a good chance to make a career or somehow

Matthew Dols 55:13
with that, so that New York is the direction that everybody’s pointing.

Jakub Tytykalo 55:19
I would say everybody, but but Yeah, it is. I think some people thinks about it this way. Yeah. Do to, like the next station or, I don’t know, maybe the third station in London. Yeah.

Matthew Dols 55:37
Okay. I find it interesting, because every time I talk to artists and curators and everybody else, the the conversations keep going between Europe and America. Nobody talks about Asia, nobody talks about South America, nobody talks about Africa. Why is that? I’m not

Jakub Tytykalo 55:57
sure. I think it’s the it’s maybe the reason is, because we can understand the art business and art itself more because of the traditions of you know, like, a similar, similar traditions or similar like thinking as well, that that we share between, you know, Americana, Euro

Matthew Dols 56:21
Americans, artists, Europeans that

Jakub Tytykalo 56:25
that’s maybe because of this, because people can understand it much more than Asian traditions, Asian art and Asian art history as well. I, for example, we didn’t learn about art history, in China and in Asia in general, in general, we didn’t learn about it. We didn’t learn about the Mexican art, which is very interesting.

Matthew Dols 56:47
I studied pre Columbian.

Jakub Tytykalo 56:49
Okay. It is very proud of that extra, huh. I think it would be very interesting. Because that’s why I wonder why we didn’t know about it at all. And so I when I came to Mexico, so yeah, well, no, this is super interesting, why we didn’t learn about it. And what you learn about in school has less to do with like your interests and has more to do with the interest of the professor’s. Like, I

Matthew Dols 57:14
find this I’m a professor and so I teach at universities. And I find that I will teach my students about things that I like. So if I like pre Columbian art, let’s say, I will teach pre Columbian art to my students. Like, I teach photography, and I find that I teach the photographers I like, and I generally Passover, the photographer’s that maybe I don’t admire her respect as much. So a lot of times the things that are learned in school have less to do with school, and more to do with the actual interests and personalities of the individual teachers you learn from.

Jakub Tytykalo 57:52
Yeah, this, I agree with that. But I was I see is a skip of the whole culture

Matthew Dols 58:00
is a bit different. Different people that I’ve been talking to have been different levels in their career, some are more established, some are less established, you’re sort of in the middle like you You are reasonably established, but you haven’t gone to that, whatever next level there. There is a next level for you sure. What is that next level? And how do you what do you think you need to do to get to it? Wow, if

Jakub Tytykalo 58:23
I would know I wouldn’t be

Matthew Dols 58:27
necessarily I mean, I’m sure you have some ideas in your mind some thoughts of like, you know, if I did this, he could lead me there. Yeah, I’m trying.

Jakub Tytykalo 58:37
Probably now. I’m, for example, yeah, that’s what comes to my mind now. I’m working on some project, which is a mural at dusk, metro station, there is a large wall. And I wonder if I if I make the mirror for it, because there is a competition now running. And so I’m trying to make this mirror or the proposal or the like sketch for this mural. And if it’s if it’s okay, if it’s if it will be baked by the, by the Commission, by you know, people who who are picking out this for this, then it would be quite a good presentation for me as well. That’s good. Maybe give me some some other opportunities, for example, in architecture, you know, like interior design or something. I think that some art it was in history here as well, in fact that that some really renowned artists were making pieces for the interiors and

Matthew Dols 59:48
public Public Works, we’ll call it

Jakub Tytykalo 59:52
it’s now it nowadays it would be called a site specific fainting, probably. And so that’s, that’s maybe something that’s There’s a site specific mural maybe.

Matthew Dols 1:00:05
So you’re thinking to expand into the commission works almost kind of like the large scale public view mural, kind of

Jakub Tytykalo 1:00:14
Yeah, that would be very interesting. For me, that would be very interesting. So So if, if there will be opportunity to make these because I guess I really, I would like to get more people in the gallery, galleries as well and more people on the

Matthew Dols 1:00:31
galleries?

Jakub Tytykalo 1:00:32
And maybe, yeah, sure, sure. And maybe this is this is the way if you make really interesting artwork, which is totally accessible, because it’s public, then then it would maybe make a bit, which, you know, to get people interested in art more, more or less now. So So that would be my goal is to get people more interested in art in general, I would say.

Matthew Dols 1:00:59
So you’ve written a proposal already in your route just waiting to hear.

Jakub Tytykalo 1:01:03
Now, I haven’t written the proposal, but I’m working on a sketch. And I’m thinking about it because it is very, it’s very specific situations, a very specific place for the mirror art. And so it has to be connected with does with its environment, I think. So that’s what I’m still thinking about.

Matthew Dols 1:01:23
I’m not, I haven’t finished this, this, like proposal or this text, that’s a whole different industry, they working with young working with governments or property developers or whoever it is, that’s a completely unique industry, because you have basically you have a client and you have to meet their needs, when that client is the government and they want it to be for everybody, you know, approachable, and non confrontational, and inappropriate, and all these kinds of things. Like that’s a very specialized set of criteria that not all artists could do. I mean, I’ll be honest, I would never do something like that, because it’s just not my style. It doesn’t really interest me, but I appreciate other people who do it and do it well. But as

Jakub Tytykalo 1:02:15
I think I would try to smuggle some ideas and hide them may know that some controversial ideas about more controversial in this murals a very Diego Rivera

Matthew Dols 1:02:26
Have you

Jakub Tytykalo 1:02:30
think it’s it’s, yeah, this is this can be attractive for people you know, and it can be, like useful for art scene here.

Matthew Dols 1:02:39
Alright, I have two last questions that I asked everybody. One of them is basically just trying to look for some sort of experiential anecdote. So some stories, some experience you had of some failures, let’s say or successes, in the, you want to pass on to other people, so that basically, maybe they don’t have to suffer through it, or maybe they can avoid a problem.

Jakub Tytykalo 1:03:04
If I would, if I would talk to students at the Academy, for example, I would tell them be more like proactive, go, go to more openings and and try to discuss it ideas with the curators, and not only for like, being influenced too much by them, but but you know, to refine them a bit, you know, to get inspired by them and take what what’s good for them from these people. verbally, that I think there is time for this always time to get the good work. Good advice, you know, and for a good advice. And, you know, as somebody says, it’s good advice.

Matthew Dols 1:03:48
I mean, people you give good advice, because not everybody give good advice. Yeah,

Jakub Tytykalo 1:03:55
good advice. I think only you can say if it’s good or bad. Maybe not, not the point at the moment, but this is worse. You know,

Matthew Dols 1:04:08
I had many professors that told me things when I was in my undergraduate and it took me, I don’t know, 1015 years to suddenly realize, Oh, shit, they were right. And I one of them, I actually had the luxury that I actually ran into him 15 years afterward, okay. And I had suddenly, within a couple months prior to seeing him had realized he was completely right about this mistake that I made in undergraduate. And I had the ability to actually not confront him, but like, actually say to him, you were right. I was wrong. I’m so sorry for the jackass that I was in school fighting you on this. Because you were right. And I needed to listen to you. Sometimes. young artists need to get out of their own ego and stop and listen to the feedback that being given to them. Because a lot of times we I guess I’m just talking for myself, I shouldn’t talk for anybody else. It’s not a we, I did when I was young, I felt I knew what I was doing. And I felt that I didn’t need anybody else’s input. And I think that’s a very bad place to start your career.

Jakub Tytykalo 1:05:19
Yeah, I think I think this person has to be in after some development today. Good, good. advices and make benefit from them? I think it’s not the time at the school, maybe for some some people for me, it wasn’t that school. If I was, if I was given a good advice, that’s cool. You know, I wouldn’t make much benefit from it. Because my, my, for example, my artwork wasn’t developed that much. So I can you know, when I see my admiration from the school, it’s not not a good and I would, I wouldn’t do it. I would say it’s bad sometimes. And I didn’t have idea how to work which which they use or which, you know, like, cyberattacks, and so on. So that’s, that wasn’t the right time for me to get good advice is probably even so after school, I was at the period that I would need probably some advice, and I didn’t get them from anybody. So I had to struggle myself,

Matthew Dols 1:06:26
you will have to struggle by yourself for the rest of your artistic capacity is not changed. But it was held, it was held before then the transition from being in school where you’re where you have a strong community of other students excellent. And then you have active input from your professors on a reasonably regular basis, to suddenly not being in school is a sort of shattering change, because you’re going to constantly being inspired and motivated and questioned and all these things to nobody gives a shit. Yeah, exactly. You just have to figure it out for yourself. Yeah. And that’s, it’s scary, and it’s painful. And it’s, and a lot of people quit at that. I mean, they say that 90% of our people who leave with art degrees, stop making art, that is the first five years of sort of just staying the course just keep producing after you get out of school, especially when you no longer have all this input. That’s one of the most important things.

Jakub Tytykalo 1:07:31
Yeah, I think when I saw some professors were trying to influence their students more and try to you know, like they they were giving some advices. And, and after that school, when they were not given any more advice, it was much harder for them, then probably for me who didn’t have any advices before. So, you know, I didn’t need them probably that much. Because it wasn’t that different for me after school. Now, I didn’t get much devices before and I didn’t get after that. So it was probably good for me that I had a professor, I had a

Matthew Dols 1:08:10
professor that didn’t show too much interest in you. Hmm, yeah. Last question that I asked everybody. part of the process of this entire podcast is the idea that what I’m trying to do is I’m new to the Czech market, the European art market. And I’ve realized after traveling and being in various parts of the world, that I literally have no idea how the contemporary art world works anymore. So what I’m going to try and do is I’m going to try to get a piece of my art work exhibited in the Museum of Modern Art, New York City. And I’m asking everybody that I talked to, for some advice, something I should do, it doesn’t have, you know, not the end result, not the massive thing, but a thing, a act, a gesture, a proactive thing that I can do in order to get one of my pieces of artwork. So not a whole solo exhibition, none of that, but just one piece exhibited in the Museum of Modern Art,

Jakub Tytykalo 1:09:07
or one advice they do, they do have put it on Instagram.

Matthew Dols 1:09:13
I did not I have not. And what I’m going to do is every piece of advice that I get, I will do it and I will incorporate it into the podcast and I will keep all the listeners involved in the process of me trying to get a peace of mind in the Museum of Modern Art. So every failure every non communication of emails, whatever every procrastination on my own part, I will keep everybody involved so that because one of the things that I find very difficult about the art world is how private it is how silent it is. You know, I know my struggles and pain and difficulty but I don’t know yours yours are different from mine and so then the next person’s is different from yours and mine. So everybody These is unique and different. And so I thought it’d be very interesting for to let people hear all of my failures and successes and be very open and transparent about everything, including all the money I’ll put into it all the time. And I’ll put into it, I will keep all these as records, I will make them into the part of the podcast so that listeners can literally follow along with the process of learning the failures and learning from the failures, learning about the successes I have and why they were successes and how they worked. So that’s what that’s like, it’s a little quantifiable thing that I’m trying to put into the podcast. So the podcast is

Jakub Tytykalo 1:10:42
not Yeah.

Matthew Dols 1:10:44
So there’s an actual thing that everybody can track and watch and follow. Hmm.

Jakub Tytykalo 1:10:49
Maybe maybe it just goes to SEO speaking. It came to my mind that if you would like to make a gesture by by getting your artwork into music, then you can literally bring it and you know, and get it there. And I saw that somebody

Matthew Dols 1:11:10
took a hammer and nail just walk in. Yes.

Jakub Tytykalo 1:11:13
So you had this is probably not the best idea now.

Matthew Dols 1:11:18
Yeah, I’m not looking for the end result. It’s just the like, basically, it’s Yeah, beginning step on the process.

Jakub Tytykalo 1:11:25
It wouldn’t be mad if you just put it on Instagram and try to make it try to make some promotion for it.

Matthew Dols 1:11:35
I love that idea. Actually, I mean, like actually create my own little hashtag like to get my art in Mama.

Jakub Tytykalo 1:11:41
Yeah, exactly.

Matthew Dols 1:11:44
And like everything that I put up, I use that same hashtag.

Jakub Tytykalo 1:11:47
So yeah, I think it’s great.

Matthew Dols 1:11:49
Lovely. Thank you very much for your time. Thank you.

The Wise Fool is produced by Fifty14. I am your host Matthew Dols – www.matthewdols.com

All information is available in the show notes or on our website www.wisefoolpod.com