Transcript for Episode 008 – Painter + Multimedia Artist, Jana Babincová (Prague, CZ)
Published August 15, 2019
Recording here: https://wisefoolpod.com/contemporary-fine-art-podcast-with-painter-multimedia-artist-jana-babincova-prague-cz/
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
Matthew Dols 0:12
pronounce your name correctly for me
Jana Babincova 0:14
Jana Babincova
Matthew Dols 0:16
and you come from where it was. So where were you born and raised?
Jana Babincova 0:19
Well, I was born in Rushkoff. It’s a small town between Brno and all amounts in Moravia in Czech Republic. But I left this hometown when I was 15 to study at high school. Then I went to university to all amounts. I studied Pedagogical University, fine arts and German language. After that, I was teaching for a year, the German language and then I decided to continue to study Fine Arts painting. So I entered the second University in Brno Faculty of Fine Arts. So I got two degrees from university.
Matthew Dols 1:02
So another equivalent in the US have like a bachelor’s and a Master’s.
Jana Babincova 1:07
I got two masters, two masters. Yeah, I got two masters, which is a bit rare, because the first university I did master degree, and it allowed me to enter the master program at Art University. So I didn’t do the bachelor program. You know, I jumped the master program. And it was supposed to be just for two years. But I was there for years because I went to Erasmus program.
Matthew Dols 1:38
Study Abroad. Yeah,
Jana Babincova 1:40
I studied in Spain and in Netherlands.
Matthew Dols 1:43
Yeah, I did it the opposite way. Actually, I have two bachelor’s degrees. I have a BA in a BFA and then an MFA because my first Ba, was not good enough like me, if I tried to apply for a master’s program with my portfolio for my MBA, I would never have gotten in. So I needed that extra time at a BFA focus my attention focused my style, my interests, my knowledge, to be able to be prepared for an MFA program.
Jana Babincova 2:10
I see. So
Matthew Dols 2:11
yeah, enjoy. Yeah, sometimes we have to go for more education.
Jana Babincova 2:14
Yeah, yeah. The way for me was a lot was longer, but I am really happy about it, because I could absorb many more informations and experiences. And yeah, I think for me, personally, it was very good to study alone. And then you moved to Prague. Yeah, after my studies, I moved to Prague. But first it was because of I fell in love with a boy who was from Prague. So it was originally not a purpose to go to Prague. But of course then I realized that here in Prague are many more opportunities and much wider range of galleries and artistic life and somehow I could use the the city life also. And,
Matthew Dols 3:05
and when when did you move here? 13 years ago? 2006. Yes. Okay. And so you came for the boy. And is the boy still in your life?
Jana Babincova 3:14
No.
Matthew Dols 3:18
One thing didn’t work out. But another thing you did,
Jana Babincova 3:20
yeah.
Matthew Dols 3:23
Okay, and so and now you’re here and you have a currently have a studio in place called pro Kafka. Prime Kafka,
Jana Babincova 3:30
Kafka pro Go Pro.
Matthew Dols 3:34
And, and you’ve been here in this space since they began, more or less,
Jana Babincova 3:39
they began. Yeah, it was in 2011, I guess.
Matthew Dols 3:47
Okay, so eight years ago,
Jana Babincova 3:49
and I was like one of the first people who came here.
Matthew Dols 3:54
Finding studio space, finding quality studio space is a very tough thing in any big city, but equally here in Prague as well. And also affordable as well. I mean, there’s, there’s one thing to quality as far as having electricity and and well built and safe and good lock on the door and all that. But also, it’s nice, because this place actually have a bit of a community to it as well.
Jana Babincova 4:18
Yes, exactly. So here is a community of artists, and all the things you mentioned.
Matthew Dols 4:26
Basically, for a long time, I was a photographer, so I didn’t really need a studio space. I mean, I was a photographer, I could go on location, I could do other things like that. But now I’ve sort of transitioned and actually now I need new studio spaces. So I’m becoming much more fascinated with the issues and the politics behind and all the different things that happen with group studio spaces like this place because this is a massive place. They’re what 40 I think 40 artists here.
Jana Babincova 4:57
Yeah, I guess so. 4050 Yeah,
Matthew Dols 5:00
I mean, it’s a it’s a rather large place. And then there’s a lot of politics that goes on behind that.
Jana Babincova 5:04
And you know, also some craft craftsman, Craftsman craftsman, which is very useful for me also. So sure,
Matthew Dols 5:13
they can build stuff for you.
Jana Babincova 5:14
I can, yeah, I can use my Carpenter neighbor or other people to help me with create the art stuff. And what I feel is very important to have a studio for artists, I think, for the artists of my kind, like, because I when I, when I came to Prague, and after I split up with the boyfriend, I was living alone in a small flat, two room flat, but small, and one room was the living room, bedroom and kitchen at one, right and the second room was like my studio. But it was not good, because it was a room. Okay, but I was all time at home. So there was no distance between the private life and the end work. And it was very inconvenient for me. I was searching for studio, but the prices were incredible. The prices were generally the same price as to pay the whole flat. Yeah, and I couldn’t afford to pay two flats. Yeah, I then suddenly friend of mine told me Oh, you know, I found a place where we can rent studios. So I get a bit and
Matthew Dols 6:31
let’s hear the T. So this is your first and only product studio?
Jana Babincova 6:36
Yes, yes.
Matthew Dols 6:38
Yeah, I mean, I looked in Studios here, and they were approximately the same price as our apartment. And that’s we I can’t pay that if I could pay that. We’d have a bigger apartment.
Jana Babincova 6:48
Maybe good idea is also to share a studio for young artists who cannot afford own space. I’m very happy that I don’t have to share, because I work a lot with sound and music. So I need my space for myself. But I know many people who share like for painters share one studio. common thing, I guess. Okay.
Matthew Dols 7:14
Studios, and while you also are currently teaching, and know that, yes, at Anglo American University, as part time, do you do it? What other side hustles? What other things do you do for extra money or extra whatever?
Jana Babincova 7:29
I teach courses, art courses,
Matthew Dols 7:33
and university.
Jana Babincova 7:34
Yes. And I also teach for other institutions. I was working for docs, temporary Art Center for compact Museum, for Culture Center. It’s called the Harada, which means garden in English. It’s so and many more. I had workshops at festivals,
Matthew Dols 8:01
and you currently have a gallery representing you.
Jana Babincova 8:04
Not really. I have a gallery that I’m in touch with. And they sometimes rent my paintings or sell but I am not represented by the gallery. rent your paintings? Yes, they rent my paintings to companies who exchange the art pieces in their offices.
Matthew Dols 8:27
So I know this practice. Yeah, they
Jana Babincova 8:30
time to time asked me to rent, let’s say 10 to 14 paintings to some ethical lease thing. Yes.
Matthew Dols 8:43
Redo an entire office redecorated or Yes. Okay, so that I didn’t know that that was something that was going on here.
Jana Babincova 8:50
Yes, it’s going on here.
Matthew Dols 8:51
Those are not relevant for my work. My work I do figurative. So it’s not gonna work if your work is much more suited for that kind of sort of office spaces, I guess. So. And you also do commissions and murals and things like this
Jana Babincova 9:03
time to time I did. More in the past. It’s kind of demand it demanding, can I say demanding? Because the practice is that as an artist, you have to organize everything on your own. So it means you have to usually usually usually is the you know, there is no support from anywhere, you know, rent your own scaffolding. Yeah, exactly. And it actually you need some cooperation. So you need someone to help you. And this is time to time complicated to find because I have a girl who helps me time to time to stretch controversies or things. Yeah, I give her money for that. But of course she’s not available all the time and anytime. So I have to say it happened. To me in the past that I ended up with thing that it’s very demanding. Not always you got so much energy to do a job like this. Yeah. Sometimes it’s outside, alone, you know, so you need someone to to save you a bit, you know, like, you know, because you have all your stuff in there. And so you definitely need supporters or cooperation with someone, right? So,
Matthew Dols 10:29
so good little like Word to the wise, if you’re going to start doing big mural stuff be be a very good planner and organize Exactly, exactly. That’s a whole different kind of a person. Yes, that can do. But yeah, that’s so there’s a lot more to it than just put some you know, design there, make an image and then put basic put it up on large scale on a wall. There’s the planning the cleanup the the, you know, the fact that you’re gonna be there for multiple days, and you’ve got to lock your equipment away and clean your equipment and all this kind of stuff.
Jana Babincova 10:59
I have to say I really, I really like the word, the process of painting on the wall. But all the things around it all the organization everything, I am able to do it, but I don’t enjoy it much I have to say. So
Matthew Dols 11:13
unless you can get to a point where you can hire other people to help you do most Yeah, for you.
Jana Babincova 11:17
Yeah,
Matthew Dols 11:18
yeah. So well, that that sort of leads on to like the idea of how you know, and not to be like too blunt about it. But like, as an artist in Prague, can you make a living from your art? Only?
Jana Babincova 11:31
Yes.
Matthew Dols 11:33
To just Commission’s and selling work and work? Well, I guess would say that worship is not so just, I think just producing of work.
Jana Babincova 11:41
If the question was, is it possible, it is again, I did it? Yes. But I don’t do it. Now. I prefer to teach interest to have to have like, let’s say, half of my income from teaching goes, it’s my personal thing. I I like it, I enjoy it. I like teaching. And the rest I earn from art. For me, this is the better way. But of course, it’s also possible to focus just on art, but then you have to be much more active, you know, in the art world, and I don’t enjoy this so much, you know, to be in constant touch with galleries and go to you must be seen on the scene. Yes. So and I don’t enjoy this very much. I prefer to go out with my friends. You know, then, of course, I go to exhibitions, but I choose the exhibitions. I really like Not those exhibitions, I think I should go, you know, but this is the but this is the personal choice. Many people might enjoy it a lot. This actually I have to say, when I was younger, I was very curious, because all the field was new for me. So that time I was going all the exhibitions and the but now I choose only the things I really like, because sure that’s totally normal. I
Matthew Dols 13:12
mean, you know, I’m new to Prague. So like, I’m more invested and interested in becoming parts of this community. So I’m out and doing more and doing all this stuff that you have grown out of basically, I mean, it happens we all grow out of these things, because they’re fun at a certain age and a certain level of your career. But at a certain point, like some things become more important to you than others. And your anger cases your friends and having a social your own personal life as taking precedent over pushing your career and, and being the I’m at every opening kind of person, which we all know those people. I was one of those people at one point,
Jana Babincova 13:51
you’re that that’s somehow part of the
Matthew Dols 13:55
process is part of the game. Like this is all just a big game, but but it’s a game that we’ve chosen to play. And the question is sort of how do we choose to play it?
Jana Babincova 14:05
Yes.
Matthew Dols 14:07
I mean, some people play it very proactively and aggressively. Yeah, people play it more passively. And then so everybody does it their own way, and you seem to be finding a nice balance for you. So
Jana Babincova 14:19
that’s how would I describe myself I’m not very progressive, but I’m also not only passive. You know, usually I’m asked to do exhibition. And also I have to say the murals and the jobs I got usually I was asked to do it. So I didn’t have to apply too many times. But of course to some jobs I had to apply, make an interview and try to get in and also some art works that that it was an open call for instance. Yeah, there were many people applying so I was chosen, so I was lucky. Hey,
Matthew Dols 14:58
do you apply for things like residencies and grants?
Jana Babincova 15:01
Yes. Also, I got the idea. That’s what I wanted to tell you. Also, I got the grant for 2018. From 19 for a year and a half from the Ministry of Culture. That’s, of course not, that doesn’t pay everything, you know, it pays the studio for a year and material. Wow. Yeah. So it’s a lot. It’s big help.
Matthew Dols 15:33
If I can have my materials covered, and my rent and my studio covered, that’s a massive amount of support. Yeah, no matter what that no, it doesn’t matter what the scale is, or the amount of images just the stress of it not even having to worry about that, though. That’s, that’s a huge stress taken off of you for a Yeah, it’s a huge
Jana Babincova 15:51
help. And it for, to me, it came early in time, I really needed it somehow, it was really, for me, it was just great. And I really appreciate that I can work much more than I could, if I wouldn’t have it. Right, right. But you should know that this kind of grant, as a Czech artist, you only can get advice in your life. So it’s the doesn’t, but there are many other possibilities for grants. And, but this one from the Ministry of Culture, you only can get advice. And then you can apply for a grant to pay you your catalog. You know, so these extra grants are also available, but always you have to write a project apply, I have gone
Matthew Dols 16:45
to get an interview with the do a podcast with this, this person from this, the ministry, talk to them, because I mean, the just the fact that this even exists is is very odd. I mean, it’s not common throughout the world to have a ministry and, and me I know that even the municipalities, even just like cities, and parts of the cities also give like these little, little grants,
Jana Babincova 17:08
once I got this city grant from my hometown, they don’t exist
Matthew Dols 17:13
anywhere in the world, but the money
Jana Babincova 17:14
money boss, or the money where the money was money was it the money was small that time, but it also covered like, let’s say, the material, the half of the material, yeah, or something. Because the cost when you when you do exhibition, the costs are high, it’s an investment, you know, to, to became a visual artist. In my case, I do paintings and spacious installations. So in my case, it in the beginning, it’s really investment, you have to invest your time, and you have to invest your money. Without this is not possible, I guess. So if you if you are not willing to give an invest, and wait until it comes back, it’s not possible to do it. That’s what I’m sure about. Yeah,
Matthew Dols 18:07
sembly mean, same thing with any creative thing. I mean, you have to, you have to choose to learn a creative thing. And then you have to master it enough that you’re doing it well enough that people are willing to invest back in you, basically. So I mean, whether it’s learning new software, a new technique, or whether it’s a new learning a new medium, or whatever it is, like, it all takes a huge amount of sort of a learning curve to get up to the point where you’re actually professional ish, or master have some mastery of these techniques to the point that you could then get some return on that investment, which is very different than a lot of industries. Because like, my wife works in finance and accounting is observed. It’s very much you learn something and you do it there. It’s like a to b to c, whereas the creative fields are very much like a and I keep learning and learning until I get like halfway there, then potentially maybe that’ll turn into something but maybe not because maybe then that’ll lead you down another path that you then have to learn something else.
Jana Babincova 19:07
Yeah, exactly.
Matthew Dols 19:08
It’s so like, it’s it’s fully it’s almost like your entire life is just a series of experiences and learning that you continually evolving and incorporating into your work to potentially then try and get money back.
Jana Babincova 19:21
Yeah, yeah, yeah. But somehow I can notice the artists who are not how to sake, capable with money are somehow Yeah, they have a hard life because the money are somehow part of it, you know, so it’s, somehow you must think how you make your ends meet and how you invest. And I have noticed that many artists are not willing to invest. You know, they make excuses like, I don’t have money to buy camera or this and that, you know, it’s like that you really need you. I think when you Want to do the art professionally? You have to be willing to invest like really to to buy the equipment like good computer, good camera, space, rent a nice space investor to some cars to be able to shoot nice photos. Because then you otherwise, actually, that’s what I do you pay kind of expensive photographers to shoot every piece you do, because you need a professional photos. It’s not possible to do it without all these investments. And you must be a good organizer. Because in this country, it doesn’t work the way that the galleries does it for you, you know, he usually the artists do it on their own. Or they have a personal manager manager, let’s say. And yeah, I think very rarely the galleries really take care of the artists, but I don’t know many, many people who have this service. Usually the people do they do it on their own. or somehow the the wife or the husband does it for them or a friend or a mother I don’t know. But really, usually there is a someone who does this background work for the artist. Interesting. Here in this country, it works different way than you are probably used from the US or Western Europe, I
Matthew Dols 21:28
have learned that everything is different than the
Jana Babincova 21:31
US.
Matthew Dols 21:34
Everything that I you know, held dear. But everything that I was taught or had under learned and understood either it’s changed, and I simply wasn’t paying attention, which is possible, because I mean, I was off teaching and doing other things. And maybe I just wasn’t paying attention to all the changes that have been going on in the arts world. But all of a sudden, I got here to Prague, and I started paying a lot of attention to how the art world works. And the one thing that I came up with was, I have absolutely no idea how the art world works anymore. Now, whether I knew it before or not, that’s up for debate. Also, maybe I didn’t know before, but I certainly don’t know now. I mean, with the addition of the internet and social media and all this kind of stuff. Like I have no idea how this all works.
Jana Babincova 22:21
I guess it has changed even since I was a student, the time it was different way. These days. I notice the UN I do it also because that’s the time the social media do a lot of work. So then you are not on Instagram, you don’t exist. That’s what I think, except the very famous artists who are already very well known. So maybe they don’t need it because maybe some galleries do the promotion for them. But what I have noticed all the artists, the young artists and the beginning artists do a lot of work on Instagram, and maybe still Facebook. And maybe Twitter if they do either. And these are the blocks, blocks blocks like Tumblr, Tumblr, Tumblr,
Matthew Dols 23:19
blogs, gotcha. No, I heard blogs locks. I’m
Jana Babincova 23:22
like, Oh, my pronunciation blog.
Matthew Dols 23:25
I got Tumblr still out there. People still use that. Yeah. Okay. So for you from your own personal experience for the amount of time, effort and stress that you put into your social media. Have you seen a direct benefit from it?
Jana Babincova 23:44
Yes, yes. Yes.
Matthew Dols 23:46
Give me some stories. Yeah.
Jana Babincova 23:48
To me happen to sometimes that I posted my painting online and someone wrote me a message. He wants to buy it. Really, really straight. Yes, that’s true.
Matthew Dols 24:02
Is this somebody who knew your work before? Oh, yes.
Jana Babincova 24:05
Yes. Yes. Yes. So it was someone who was like, longer time interested and wrote me something like oh, yeah, no, this piece. I really love it. I was waiting until you create something that I always wanted to buy something from you and now I feel this is it. Okay. And I said, Okay, come for it. Of course, it doesn’t. It does not happen to me. Like often, it happens a couple of times. But I know artists who tell him told me and I believe it. They put the work online and 10 people ask them to buy it. And like if they do it every day, they would sell it every day. There’s gonna be the kind of I have to tell you that it’s a little bit kind of different. Different work like very popular, let’s say very popular.
Matthew Dols 24:57
What do you mean by popular like naked Girls like that, because that’s what social media really is all about.
Jana Babincova 25:04
Not naked girls, but cute, sweet stuff, let’s say I don’t know somehow very,
Matthew Dols 25:09
very colorful illustrations.
Jana Babincova 25:12
Yes. illustrated for instance, but I know we are talking about how the social media social media work. So the social media also work this way. It’s also a sell stream.
Matthew Dols 25:29
Can I find that is it Megan maybe I’m completely wrong on this. But they There seems to be a price point that people are willing to buy a certain price point or below via some social media website, whatever. But over a certain price point yes. Not really gonna buy without something. Yes, some gallery exhibition Museum, a curator, somebody, somebody else involved to say, yes, this is worth that investment. This is worth that price. But that there is a price but I don’t know what that price point is. But there is a price point where people will buy on the internet sort of almost like an impulse buy almost because the price is you know, just a fun price. Basically, you know, under I don’t even know what 20 euros let’s say something like that. 25 years, people would buy that online. Sure. But I mean,
Jana Babincova 26:18
this is this. What I’m talking about is not about selling artworks online. This is about someone that this is the channel that you you actually present your work and someone likes it and comes to your studio to buy it. Yeah, yeah, I was not talking about selling it online. Okay, but I think selling online works also. But usually I would guess as a as a channel you know, usually the people want to come and see the art piece in real before they buy it you know, I cannot imagine people would order it online and I would sell the sell that post or people don’t do it. Okay. I wouldn’t do this I would always want to see in the real the
Matthew Dols 27:09
well we’re artists we want to see we want that but the not everybody cares about that a lot of people will buy somebody a real real sight unseen by me seen on screen but not seen in reality. People do it. It doesn’t happen but it doesn’t happen very often. The thing is, I keep hearing you know, I’ve been asking everybody I talked to you about social media like how useful is it because we all invest a lot of time and energy and stress like should I post this should I not please this a better picture of it? Is that about you? Should I tell people that I was at this place should I even tell people about this exhibition again? Like the exhibitions crap in my work looks great in it,
Jana Babincova 27:48
you know? Yeah,
Matthew Dols 27:49
what do you know? How do you battle with that to like make the right decisions?
Jana Babincova 27:55
I think it’s a good way if someone does not like it, they don’t have to watch it right? You know, some people are jealous some people are envious some people hate you anyway, you know, doesn’t matter. So I like to present like what I do, because somehow I believe I got many people online who are interested in it and I ended are also many people I think is just advertising field or advertising. possibility you can advertise your exhibition or your work for free. And mobile is not free because the amount of time and energy we have to put into it that we’re taking away from some other thing. Sure, sure. It takes some time but you know, when you get used to it, it depends you know, okay, how much time do I spend with putting things online? Maximum an hour a week maximum
Matthew Dols 28:59
Okay, now people a lot more something yes
Jana Babincova 29:02
some people do it you know, I don’t do it daily you know, I don’t do daily update agenda. To put things online to make people aware I exist. I only put things online when I got new stuff or a good mood or exhibition or some exciting experience. So actually, I can say I do it according my emotional according my feelings according my mood. These days the diaries are popular I guess, a diet diaries you know that you that you create. In Czech language. It’s called danke, which in English is diary, like daily, daily notes. What do you do you know, and you can make a collage of visual photo music and it’s online only for one day. So it always updated and fresh. I know these young people love it Instagram stories, Instagram stories. Yeah. And this works out also within the VR world I noticed, you know, all the people who present are the galleries and some artists they do that’s the question how you can make your, your, your living from it because some artists do work that is much better sellable than the others. And here, you know, I’m kind of lucky because the work I do is also suitable just to buy it as a nice thing to have at home for instance, you know,
Matthew Dols 30:45
right, what’s the nature of like, a product based or an object based artwork versus like your sound installation? Foreman’s pieces, those are, those are that’s a very different genre. Very different. That work is very institutional and collection kind of like thing it’s not you’re not going to have somebody buy a performance piece and put it in their house. So it mean you did you make a conscious choice to say, okay, it’s like Christo, where he makes prints and objects that he sells and then when he sells those that funds his large scale in pieces so the
Jana Babincova 31:24
same way as it works with me, because I do it the way that all the money I make from art I invest back to art as a common enterpreneur who is clever you know, like, if you earn money it’s not a good idea to go on holiday. It’s good idea to invest it back to your to you know, I always when I sell a B’s I always go and buy Coronavirus you know and and or better colors. And you know, I’m happy like okay, I saw the bees so let’s support the work
Matthew Dols 31:56
well that’s an awesome question because in my household we have chosen to actually create it physically a separate bank account that I have from my art practice that has its own physical bank account so any sales that come in from art go into that bank account and any basically any art supplies I purchase I purchase from that bank. So we’ve decided that yeah, that’s the question is like, do you do something like that where you sort of really keep your finances very separate sort of a business account on a personal I
Jana Babincova 32:23
don’t have a separate accounts, but I know very well, what the money comes from and where I put my money. Yeah, so I’m kind of good accountant.
Matthew Dols 32:36
Yeah, so for your your instant, large scale, like your installation sound work and this kind of stuff, that’s tough to get money to do per se and it’s even more difficult really to even find opportunities for it. How do you do that
Jana Babincova 32:51
usually, it’s an open call from a gallery I apply and then the gallery gives you some budget never the budget is enough Of course, it doesn’t pay your time usually at all. And but I have to say I was lucky recently that the budgets from the galleries covered like let’s say the material and the help I needed transport transport, but my time was never paid. So it means two months, you work on a beautiful exhibition and you don’t get money. So then you have to find the money somewhere else, which means in my case that I sell paintings, you know, and I like painting you know, I connect the painting with my installations. So they are compact you know, I have the vision one day I will make a book where all these things will be mixed together and my web pages mixed together and you can see the inspiration so I come from drawings to paintings and to the installations that and I developed the same principle because I got the conceptual principle of coding things like letters to colors and sounds to shapes let’s say so and that is a wide range of possibilities are how and where you can develop I also also work with projections and I cooperate with other artists with musicians. But the painting because I was a painter originally. So somehow the painting I just love it. You know I love colors. Once I was told I have that I have like extreme color talent to to paint the colors and I really love it.
Matthew Dols 34:40
I love colors. That is a I’m horrible with color.
Jana Babincova 34:44
So I am like color oriented artists also. So I really love painting. I really enjoy mixing the color the color, I love the craft also. And so I enjoy it and that’s also product you can sell, without selling painting time to time, it would be really hard, I would have to probably apply much more for grants and things. And I really enjoy it depends what you enjoy. I enjoy much more paint a picture and sell it then write grants, you know, it’s a very annoying activity.
Matthew Dols 35:22
Yeah. It takes a different kind of mindset. Yeah. And
Jana Babincova 35:26
somehow, in somehow, it’s also like, you know, asking for grant is asking for something, you know, I’m much more familiar with do something, do some work and sell it because, you know, I feel I am grateful for the grant I got, and it’s a huge support. And I’m honored that the state gave me that support in my work. So it’s great. But I’m not the kind of person who enjoys asking many institutions for money and stuff.
Matthew Dols 35:58
I feel like we’re constantly begging and asking, like, we’re asking for the opportunity to exhibit in a particular gallery, we’re asking for the opportunity for a curator to come look at our work so that we might have some exhibition with them in the future. We’re asking for money we’re we’re like, our entire lives is we make something and then we just we basically ask people to like what we do.
Jana Babincova 36:23
Yes, that that. That’s right. And that’s the feeling I don’t like, that’s why I somehow don’t do it. So often. I believe I could be much more successful if I will do these activities more often, to be more proactive? Ask people to come and offer them and it definitely works. Yeah, you know, when I believe it works. It’s actually to be proactive. But depends what kind of personality you do, how often you are able to do these things. I’ve worked in art galleries, and I can sell the shit out of somebody else’s art. No problem.
Matthew Dols 37:06
But if I put my own art, even in that same gallery, I can’t sell my own art. Yeah, I am. I am my own worst salesperson. But I could sell the hell out of your work. Yeah, so like, there’s that subjective nature or lack of detachment that like, I can’t sit here and tell you why you should love my work? Because it’s
Jana Babincova 37:29
Yeah, exactly. It’s might sound selfish. And somehow you don’t feel comfortable with it. Right? Like,
Matthew Dols 37:37
I don’t know why. I don’t know. Cuz I can sell yours. But I can’t sell mine. Yeah. And I’m sure it’s probably same thing. Like you have difficulty selling your own work.
Jana Babincova 37:47
Yeah, I have difficulties with posting my work online. You know, I do. But always I’m, like, shy, you know? And then I say, Okay, let’s do it. But I believe there are many people who don’t have these travel who are proud and happy, and they really enjoy the attention. I also enjoy. But somehow I am like, I feel somehow, like, a bit ashamed? Or is it a good way if I won’t bother anyone with my staff, you know, if someone is really curious, and also there are some doubts, always. And this is maybe what I would like to mention also that to be an artist is good, too, which is contra productive, actually, you know, you need to be emotional. But then when you try to sell or present your work is good. Not to be too emotional at all. It’s good not not not to be to touch, you know, not to not
Matthew Dols 38:44
to hug your clients and all that. And No,
Jana Babincova 38:47
I don’t. But I mean, you should be used to hear the critique. And some, you know, like,
Matthew Dols 38:55
yeah, it’s a objective sort of objective sort of take yourself away from the emotional element and be like, instead of describing the emotions of what you put into your work, you you describe literally the work like, Yeah, definitely.
Jana Babincova 39:09
Yeah, one
Matthew Dols 39:09
way, I often tell my students when I when, when we do critiques, not to use the terms I me and mine, when talking about work, because when you use I, me or my it’s, it’s a personal opinion, yeah. Versus fat, sort of objectively stating what’s there
Jana Babincova 39:28
somehow. I always have a sentence in my mind of my professor and he said, art is not art therapy. Nice. You know, also, it’s like, we all are these all we have many emotions and many experiences, but who is interested in this, you know, it’s like, yes, you want to share your experience, but I believe that experience must be somehow transformed in the universal language, that it’s the new Make some something of it not Did you tell people, I have this
Matthew Dols 40:08
depress I’m sorry.
Jana Babincova 40:10
I am in love or I don’t know, whatever, you know, I think this is this is this is not what the art should speak about actually, somehow or can be very expressive and visceral and emotive. But it’s not necessary. Yeah. But it’s it’s about
Matthew Dols 40:32
depends on what you’re trying to share. I mean, somebody I know, plenty of artists who are very color guarded, or they don’t, they don’t want to share their emotions, but they make beautiful, whatever experiences objects, the thing they make, they have great craftsmanship, and they have great expressive qualities in their work, but they’re not expressing their inner emotions and their childhood traumas and all this that’s not necessary to make beautiful arts, you can make beautiful works without being damaged. I actually have, I had a student one time that asked me, is it necessary for it to be an artist that you have either a tortured childhood or some drug or drinking addiction? And I wanted to say yes, just to see what would happen, but I didn’t. I said, it’s not necessary. But but it does seem like those kinds of things are more common in the arts, like psychological issues, childhood traumas, addictions, drinking like these comment, like, I’m, I’m as guilty as anybody else. I have previous drug addiction. So I mean, the question is, is like, does the viewer care? Do they need to experience all of that gravitas? All that emotional weight? That doesn’t matter to the viewer? Is that important?
Jana Babincova 41:53
I don’t think so. I don’t think so. Maybe, especially when you want to have an art piece at home. You don’t want because you know, your your life changes also, and maybe you don’t want to look all the time at some artists drama with his whatever.
Matthew Dols 42:14
ever being out of love.
Jana Babincova 42:15
Yes, somehow I think the emotions should be transformed into some form.
Matthew Dols 42:23
Yeah, well, you may be interesting, beautiful, well, you work in an abstract nature and you’re in your painting. So like you did that transition from necessarily an emotive expression is being abstracted in your Yes.
Jana Babincova 42:37
So for me, it’s a it’s a big topic, actually, this transformation of things because the things I do are actually very emotional, because I called the text into the paintings very often. So I choose the text that not not not, it’s not that I choose the text, you know, the text usually somehow comes to me, you know, I listen, I hear great song I like, I read a poem, I really like something that or someone tells me some information or some clever glue that I really enjoy, or it’s it touches me. So then I transform this into the, into the abstract form, and colors and I fix it for myself, you know, into the form of painting. So somehow it looks so a bit and personal, abstract geometric, but inside is the very personal information,
Matthew Dols 43:37
which goes back to what you were saying, which is like, there is an emotive nature to it, but it’s underlying and you and you’ve sort of transformed it in a manner so that it’s not necessary for the viewer to know it, but it might enhance their appreciation if they didn’t know
Jana Babincova 43:53
it. Yes, exactly. They they might but they Muslim is not necessary.
Matthew Dols 44:01
It’s not necessary to know I did not know that about your work so it actually makes it a little bit more interesting for me as well. Thank you.
Jana Babincova 44:11
Yeah, when I was younger, I really appreciated the opportunity to be here with with other art with the other artists and share with them experiences and also the time because usually younger people have more time than because as you are getting older, you time you are getting more beauties and and your work is already developed so you know what you are working on. Me personally, I got so many projects that I would like to let I want to work on. So I feel always that I don’t have enough time. So I appreciate most time to be alone. I’m not getting in touch with other Pro here much. Of course I speak with, with people I know at the cafe, but I don’t invite much people here to my studio. And because you know, I used to do this a lot when I was younger, or in the past, let’s say, but these days, I save this communications, just for the situations when I meet someone who really does something that I’m interested in, because I feel like I got enough of the general knowledge of how other people works. So for me, now, it’s much I feel better to focus on what what’s my topic, you know, or somehow what’s what’s, what’s my interest? I can imagine I would have studio somewhere out of any community, I don’t have problem with this.
Matthew Dols 45:51
Yeah, it’s interesting how we often do sort of grow out of these things. And
Jana Babincova 45:55
especially these days, you got the online connections. So when I feel lonely, I can chat with someone or make a phone call with my wireless headphones. Or, you know, and I teach part time, so I get the social contact with students. And then I appreciate to be alone in my studio and work. Yeah, and focus on my work. Also, like meditate a bit, you know, because my painting is kind of meditative work, because it’s a very precise technique. So I have to, you know, painting my my pictures is a bit like, I don’t know, in English, we Shivani you know, you saw sewing machines,
Matthew Dols 46:48
quilting, quilting,
Jana Babincova 46:50
quilting, like, right, you have a cloth. And usually the women do these things that they and they make the blankets? Yeah, so it’s guilting quilting quilting? Like you when you make the crossy? Oh, no, that’s cross stitch. Cross Stitch stitch. Yeah. So, you know, my painting is bit like, similar process, like making these cross stitch, you must be patient, you must have your vision, and you go step by step. But I never know how the painting will look. In the end, you know, I make the sketch or the design, but it never looks the same way. When I do it on the, on the canvas using
Matthew Dols 47:34
different mediums. So like the
Jana Babincova 47:36
medium and it’s it develops its own way. And also you put one color and then you change it, you know, and it’s so I have to a bit long process, and I have to focus. Meanwhile, it’s not about design it and then repaint it right, you know, so
Matthew Dols 47:58
it’s more like inspiration or sketch. Yes. Yeah. To then. Large scale. Yes,
Jana Babincova 48:03
yes.
Matthew Dols 48:04
All right. Well, so let’s wrap up with my final two questions that I asked everybody. My first question is a somewhat easier a teacher, this shouldn’t be too hard for you, which is what advice from your own experiences would you give to another artist who’s trying to enhance their career in some way? Either a story of a failure or something you did wrong, and you encourage them to avoid something or something, some success that you believe might help somebody that it’s not an obvious thing that like, Oh, yeah, that’s a trick.
Jana Babincova 48:37
I’m afraid I don’t know about any really trick that you can apply. Somehow, I believe it’s a balance between hard work, good ideas, connection with other artists and the art world. Of course also communication skills communication, definitely. part of the process is also writing emails, texting messages, communication with the personal way, but also the BC work let’s say
Matthew Dols 49:14
throwback to actually a previous thing that you said it was about writing about your work about how you don’t like writing grants and all this. How do you feel about people call it outsourcing writing grants like a grant writer could write you can pay pay somebody to do that for you? Yes. Have you ever done that? Barkley? Yeah,
Jana Babincova 49:33
I had a I had a I ordered help with it. So I I don’t want anyone else write about my work. So I always do it on my own that I override the idea. But then I got someone who helped me to form it the better way.
Matthew Dols 49:49
Was it a friend or did you pay this person like, Was this an actual professional or just an associate?
Jana Babincova 49:55
It was a barter, okay?
Matthew Dols 49:57
It was about I love bartering. I think that’s
Jana Babincova 49:59
all barter is, this is also good idea. I use the barter because as an artist you got a lot of artworks so you can give a painting to your dentist if
Matthew Dols 50:10
you want. I do have a dentist, I can do that where
Jana Babincova 50:13
Yes, I didn’t do it. But a friend of mine she did it ended and this was happy because he was also art collector. So I want him.
Matthew Dols 50:22
I want a landlord that will accept art as rent.
Jana Babincova 50:26
Great, great. Yeah.
Matthew Dols 50:29
So yeah, I’m, I’m interested in whether or not people feel comfortable and are willing to and how many people engage in using outside writers because I think most of us as creative people, we’re sewing involved and emotionally involved and engaged in our work. It’s sometimes it’s difficult for us to step back and and really eloquently explain the work because we’re so personally attached to it.
Jana Babincova 50:54
Yes, I think but I think it’s good to be able to speak basically about the content of your work. But not all artists are good writers, as you mentioned. So it’s it’s it’s I think it’s good idea to cooperate with someone with curator who who does this work for you. I got in my life like about them curators who describe my work, always when I had exhibition, there was someone who wrote a text. And then it’s also inspiring for me, the other people have the inside. They don’t
Matthew Dols 51:36
they see things completely different. Yes, sometimes
Jana Babincova 51:38
Yes. I think it’s good idea to cooperate with curator or someone but it depends what kind of personality you are. I am very self spending person. You know, I really like since I was a child, my parents told me always that I was shouting, I do eat on my own, you know, so I am the person I like to do things on my own because I like to be my own boss. But of course, I accept advice and support. Yeah, but I believe that our artists who like and get much more support. And it all it’s also a way how you can work, you know that you are more connected with the, with the curator and somehow your work is more influenced by contemporary flow or you know, like so you might find is very individual, you know, I somehow I’m a little bit out, you know, with it, you know, my work is not like, in up to date or how to say, you know, I trendy? trendy, yeah, my work is not trendy at all, I think. But that’s not a quality that I am interested in, actually. Which doesn’t mean that I don’t like I love the trendy things, you know, all I, I follow it. And I’m like, Oh, this is cool. You know, for me, I always ask the question. Okay, let’s see in 10 years, if it still will be cool. Yeah, or just boring.
Matthew Dols 53:11
Like, because usually then then appear so many things within the trend, that I believe only couple of them will be the best ones. Sure. That’s what will make the value of the thing. More like when I was in school, it was always Well, my teachers at Corcoran were always talking about how timeless you want it, you want to create some piece of art that transcends time that it’s a beautiful piece of art, no matter when it was made. And no matter when it will be viewed in the future. It still is inherently beautiful, regardless of when it was made. Yeah. Like that’s the way I was taught. Yeah, that’s actually the way I was taught also, part of the process of this is that I’m going to do the process of trying to get a piece of my artwork exhibited in the Museum of Modern Art in New York City. I want to learn how the art world works well enough to be able to get my work into a extremely prestigious institution. In my case, I’ve chosen the Museum of Modern Art in New York. And every advice that I received from people, I will do it and I will keep everybody listening to the podcast up on the process of like, whether they were whether it was successful or or didn’t work or whatever.
Jana Babincova 54:31
Okay, okay. So probably I will do a research within the institutions, which of them exhibit kind of argue do because I don’t think it makes sense to apply for institution that does not show photos ever, you know, like so if you are a photographer, I will probably focus the museums and galleries who show photography and then I’ve Research the the exhibitions and the curators who did these exhibitions? And if I would find that some some of them is interested somehow in the ideas I have, or you have, I would probably write an email to this person. Of course, the best way probably these people get many emails, yeah, probably the best way would be to somehow try to meet the person in person, somehow try to show them your work, some or maybe make an exhibition here and invite or somehow send the photos of the exhibition? I don’t know. Definitely, there must be contact between you. And the person who organizes the exhibitions is rapidly curator.
Matthew Dols 55:59
I like it. I’m going to summarize it, I believe, basically, it’s research, research research. Yeah, do lots of research to make sure that the person or people that I tried to target to help
Jana Babincova 56:11
Yeah, yeah,
Matthew Dols 56:12
has done has shown interest in work like mine, or similar medium or similar subject matter, whatever. But like, basically, don’t, don’t just read attack a random curators Yes, find somebody that you believe has, and even, you know, then you can see, I can even personalize the thing, I saw the catalog from the exhibition that you did here, and I believe that there’s some relationship between my work and the work that you were using there, you know, make them make it, make them feel like you actually put work into it.
Jana Babincova 56:43
Yeah. And I think it’s good advice not to shoot too many directions. Because, you know, this is also a technique, let’s say that many people do, you know, try as many possibilities as I can, you know, you know, and then one or two might became real, right. But I hate personally, this kind of process, I always choose something, what I really like, and like, say, hit the targets, you know, like, not to lose too much energy too, because every try to get in touch with someone is your energy. So I wouldn’t lose it
Matthew Dols 57:24
when it’s also potentially your reputation.
Jana Babincova 57:27
Also, also, you know, like someone who is trying to be everywhere. It’s just
Matthew Dols 57:33
when those curators talk to each other to so they could be like, Hey, did you get an email from this person? Yeah, I got that email, too. So like, that doesn’t look good. If you if you too many people receive some anonymous email from you. Like, that’s not good on your reputation, either.
Jana Babincova 57:48
Yeah. And maybe somehow, it’s, but we are looking at advice, maybe it’s good to make the person notice that you know, the person that you know, what the person does, you know, like, know that you are trying just because I think you are important. So that’s why I am selling you my work. Look at this, you know, I will probably always right, like, Look, I have read many of your texts, I really like it because I do something what’s in touch. So I’m trying to get in touch with you.
Matthew Dols 58:21
Right? So basically tried to make a personal connection, rather than just a purely sort of business business financially, like sales kind of connection.
Jana Babincova 58:30
Yes, yes, definitely. You know, somehow I believe that, with me, all the cells are actually side effects. You know, it’s not the it’s not the goal, its side effect. And I always try not try I always do that I always first exhibit the things at exhibition. And then I sell them. Maybe sometimes, yes or no, depends.
Matthew Dols 58:57
Yeah, I knew some collectors that used to say that like they they loved buying art for the story that went with the piece. The object is just a physical manifestation of some great story of them, meeting the artist or an experience they had at a at a performance or a gallery experience or whatever. So they they really, they didn’t buy for the necessarily aesthetics of it or the quality of the piece, but they bought because they love the story that it reminded them of. Yeah, thank you very much for your time.
Jana Babincova 59:29
Thank you.
The Wise Fool is produced by Fifty14. I am your host Matthew Dols – www.matthewdols.com
All information is available in the show notes or on our website www.wisefoolpod.com