Transcript for Episode 018 – Photographer + Illustrator, Sylva Francová (Prague, CZ)

Published September 19, 2019

Full recording here: https://wisefoolpod.com/contemporary-fine-art-podcast-with-photographer-and-illustrator-sylva-francova-prague-cz/

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Matthew Dols 0:12
Do you please pronounce your name correctly for me

Sylva Francova 0:14
like Sylva Francova. Like I say my name in check Silva Francois. In English, they will pronounce Vancouver, but France Silva. And where are you from? Where do you Where were you born and raised? Like one question I often have about creative people is basically where do they come from? So what kind of what did your parents do siblings? Like, how did that influence you that sort of led you to this career? Oh, I’m from Prague. I born in Prague, born and raised in Prague, and I’m living all my life in Prague.

Matthew Dols 0:45
That’s very rare.

Sylva Francova 0:47
I don’t know if it’s rare, but I love it. I’m okay with that. And my parents aren’t artists. My father, a scientist. He’s palaeontologist. So it has some influence for me, maybe your big influence. And his father was artist, his father, my dad, he was later in his career, he was artists, and he did the graphic design and the he draw very much. And we still have many, many beautiful drawings from from him. And they love it. So maybe it was big influence, his life or his drawings and all this by and my mom is pedagogies or special pedagogies. So she already had a special special school. She worked like teacher.

Matthew Dols 1:42
So is that so?

Sylva Francova 1:45
So big influence. Maybe it wasn’t my dad and my father. So fathers by skipped a generation? Yes, I understand. Yeah. Yeah, it happens. And so then you went on, and you chose to go to art school. But my dad was very complicated. It wasn’t so easy. When I was a little child late. Around first class at the school I wrote in my first writing that I would like to be a painter. And it was my first grade. Yeah, maybe it was some first writing what is your dream job or anything like this? So I wrote it, but everybody was Yeah, it’s nice, but nobody took care. I liked drawing very much but when I was at eighth class, when we are choosing schools or where to go, I wanted to go to like art school, but to my family. They were nice, but they didn’t support that that very much. They sorted it out. I’m not too much time date or it’s very difficult to go to the schools they are choosing only few people that didn’t believe it can happen to me. And also I was very ill at the time I was I spent it half a year in hospital in that in that year. So what happened for us my asthma? Yes, it was in that in that year? It was very, very difficult. So I wanted to go Okay, we can do our but you go to the gymnasium. This art. Art. I’m not from here in a gymnasium. It’s a bit of art. No, it means like general education or education. Yeah. So like no specialization yeah high school like not not the high school for subjects many subjects but but this high school for people who would like to start at the university is preparing Coronavirus okay so gymnasium is directly prepared for university is better translation I don’t know the name in English but no, that is the name

Matthew Dols 3:50
of I translated the gymnasium but the gymnasium probably in English. It’s like Gemma. Yeah, it’s a place that

Sylva Francova 3:59
was completely not that it’s called for people who would like to study more studying people who are high status ability who would like to continue so that this type of more sense to me now? Yes type of school? Yeah, I’ve seen a lot sometimes the schools has some subjects. Usually it’s for everything. It’s like math from most languages everything or studying. But sometimes there was a special this type of school, which has little bit art art part. So he thought I will go there, but I would have to do talent exams but I was at the hospital all that half half a year. So I went to do to go to some other school my parents thought so I they chose chose chose for me. Economic school, women, women.

Matthew Dols 4:51
Let me I want to get to understand something because again, I’m not from the Czech Republic. So please bear with me on this. I’m trying to understand the educational system. in eighth grade you had to take an entrance exam to get into an art school high school still the same Yeah, okay, no you are 14 or now it’s 15 why girls my daughters are doing this next this year this year which will be I would imagine sort of choosing your career path choosing a career or you’re choosing if your role will go to the specialist core value are later you would like to continue at university you can go to university after normal high school but you can choose High School will be like nurse high school or economy high school or anything else or art art high school or if you will study some craft is not studying like or technicals Nichols?

Sylva Francova 5:53
Yeah, so in my case, my parents because I was elite, they thought they thought okay, for this special High School for universities, it would be difficult to go there because I was ill. So they bring me to this economic school because I had very good marks or marks in school, I could go there without any exam without any anything else. Usually you have to do you pass some exams to go to this high schools. Proper, naturally, so I went to this economy school without the exams because I had to get good marks. So I was okay with that. Because I say okay, in the time, I wanted to do art, but also I was happy that I can dress well, or I couldn’t. So I was okay with that. But in the first class of the school, I realized that I hate it. And maybe it was it was long time very shy for the for the school because I started four years the school which I hated more and more, I didn’t like it at all. I was quite okay with marks on in school, I like no problems this school like to do that. But I didn’t like it, I found that I don’t like numbers, I don’t like accounting and I don’t like this subject. And all my colleagues it’s color. Very, very different from me. So I realized that I would like to do art and maybe now I feel that it was a good step to do this school which I didn’t like because because of that I pushed my all my energy to art and to drawing lessons and the only thing involved this art and I love it more and more. I’m thinking the other way I’m thinking that that economics background that business school background probably helped you a lot in being a business person. So I didn’t like it so much. Try by all my life. I try to avoid anything which has any any things together is that I understand I don’t like there was a movie in America called say anything and one of the characters is the father he was dating a girl in the father’s like so what do you want to do in the future? He’s like, I don’t want to sell anything buy anything buy anything sold or bought sell anything sold or bought.

Matthew Dols 8:28
Basically just I want nothing to do with the the market the industry business and all this. Yeah. So because of the school I know what not to do. I bought I hate I was like that’s a great thing to learn at a young age like a lot of people waiting to learn it later in life. So now I know how it was important important for this energy and for this knowing what to do for this big feeling that I would like to do art. But in the time and many years after economic school I was shy to say anybody what I did because usually people are

Sylva Francova 9:07
thinking about your through your schools. So when you ask in some in many times happened, what did you do which scored it at all high school? was at our school? No. Okay, I didn’t see your art you still do it? I mean, even in the arts, they No no, it never happens again after my other other education. Now, like the galleries and stuff would be like, What school did you go to? Who did you study with? They want to know this stuff.

Matthew Dols 9:35
And maybe in the past, it was more strong? Yes, I’m sure in the past it was more but it still does exist. People still do ask these questions. It’s funny because like Czech people in European people make fun of Americans because we’re we always say so what do you do for a living? Uh huh. Like that’s one of our first questions. But like in the arts here, it’s Who did you study with? Like, this is one of the first collections

Sylva Francova 10:00
Yes, yes. It’s fascinating to me like button.

Matthew Dols 10:06
Like I didn’t, I studied with like 10 different professors. And they intentionally didn’t make it so that we were like a direct lineage like so I didn’t, I don’t have a mentor, I have a series of professors that I learned from intentionally that was the way they designed the school so that there was not a, I’m going to work just like this person, or I’m directly in this lineage of this person. Whereas here in Europe, it seems as the opposite way, they really, really want you to have a mentor, and to follow certain aspects of whatever they teach or their philosophies and continue their lineage. Is that true? Do you do you have that experience?

Sylva Francova 10:45
Yeah. Okay, don’t be that. I am not I’m teaching last last few years. And it’s interesting to speak about this about education with my students, it’s usually girls. And most of them are from high schools with this art subject from violets level, our art school, our prestige, high school, this art for art, education, and other many others. And they came to this university pedagogy subject for this art, I’m teaching at art, university, it Charles University, it’s pedagogy, school, art education. I’m very envious. That’s very good school. I’m a professor also something very, it’s, it’s quite interesting, and that my students, sometimes there, one student told me, I started this prestige, nice art High School, but I loved the art before, I wonder it was my passion. It was, I loved it. But at high school, she has to do that she had homeworks, from art and so on. And for years, see, she has to study art. And she realized, I don’t like it so much anymore. She went to study this art education, but not art, like academic or other schools. So now I’m when I hear this. I feel okay, maybe it was good that I didn’t do art High School, because it was I had to fight for my for my for doing that. Yeah, I mean, it’s an interesting issue. academia, like, I’ve heard many people say, like, I loved being an artist until I went to school, because like the school like, the maybe it’s the way we teach these days, or maybe it’s the structure of academia, that often sort of sucks the joy out of the the act of simply being a creative person. And it’s an interesting issue, like, are we doing it wrong? As teachers, you know, are we making the wrong choices? Are we not being as supportive and helpful or whatever, as we should? Or are we teaching it in a way that is sort of sucking the joy out of it all? Or is the structure itself like this, the academic structure? Sort of? Is it two contradictory to sort of the free spirits of creative people, that it just doesn’t really quite work as well as we wish it did? Yeah, I love to teach this people who have some experiences with art, but also I’m sometimes teaching people who will be teachers at elementary school, they have no experiences of this art, maybe sometimes they come to my classes, and they hate art, because they went to the school not to study art, but to study education. And they had very often they have bad experiences from from school with art. So you’re teaching the future teachers of all Yes, yes. One class, usually I am teaching others, but sometimes I have this classes. And I always, because I can I can change their their opinion about art and show him how art is great and doesn’t have to. It doesn’t have to teach artists in them. They doesn’t doesn’t have to be artists, but they have to have feeling for art and to burn their own future pupil. pupil. Yeah, for art and be creative. I think in this world, it’s very important to be creative and want to see what everything can be art and how it is important, how it can be great to do this and to be to love it for their children. So I think

the arts is incredibly important. I think everybody should at least take a few classes, you know, just in government, high schools, public but public schools in general, I believe that, you know, there should be some theaters and music, some some visual arts, all of these kinds of things everybody should try them. So if The least they just have like a little foundation of it, they have a little understanding if, if more great, they’ve been inspired, they now sort of go down that path. But I’m, I’m not a fan of when basically people simply just don’t want to learn. They’re like, I don’t know anything about art. The first sentence, I don’t like it, I don’t know it, I am not good. I don’t understand the understanding that one like that, too. In order to understand art, all it takes really some time. Just sit with it. And you’ll find something that either you’d like you were saying, like you, you went to your economic school and you learn that you don’t like economics. So the best way to learn whether you appreciate or understand or whatever art is just to simply see more of it. The more art you see, the more maybe most of what you’ll learn is I don’t like that I don’t like that I don’t like that I don’t like but you’re learning something, you’re learning what you don’t like, but then some at some point you’ll come to something you do like because you have basically edited out all these things you know you don’t like you’ll find sooner or later you’ll find something but problem is a lot of people just don’t put the time into that they don’t put the energy into it and they see a few things like my brother is not the biggest fan of the arts he often will say to me like when he looks at my artwork, he’ll go like my son could have done my five year old son could thanks a lot very supportive, loving family that I have. Yeah, yeah, I know what normal saying. I know he’ll never listen to this podcast Yeah, so it’s my mission to change they are thinking about art and put my all my energy to that so i i like it. Okay, so back to you sort of the the progress of your career so you went to gymnasium high school with focus in the arts. Then you went on to

I didn’t study this gymnasium this this. Sorry, the Ignazio I did for this crummy High School. Yeah. So I started four years Academy high school and my parents taught me Okay, when you finish this call, then you can do our to convey anything. So after that, my big aim and my big dream was to go to the like this vaslav Halawa High School. It’s the very nice art High School. So under his after maternity exam, the two years, so I, I thought I can’t go to the university. It was too soon. I don’t know anything so much. So I went to this to your studies after high school, it’s not University. It’s something between University and between high school. So I started that two years, it was subject books and illustration or graphic design books and illustration, or something like that. So I left that years, it was like changing my life completely. We started only art and it was great. I found I have art much more and more and more. And so I started this two years. But from that first year, I start to apply it for universities, arts universities, but I didn’t know which subject I would like to do. I would like the best to do illustrations. But it was the worst subject where to go there are there are chosen one or two people from hundreds. So very competitive, very, very competitive. And in that time, it was only a few universities for art, maybe to not only have the the universities here in the Czech Republic are free to citizens. Yes, it’s free. It’s free. In the time in the 90s. It was Academy of Fine Art, but I didn’t feel brave enough to go there. It was too far. I felt like it’s too much of a rival. At the end, I started there, but in that time, I felt it’s it’s too much. I thought it’s the score is too high for me. And there is also this own promo or Academy of iPod applied art. Otherwise, I was dabbling on drums. Okay, I had no idea and they are studying people. Also, it’s pretty freelance. Fine Art but but mainly, like glass and sculpture, ceramics and illustration, graphic design, typography typography. And we regenerate call that like commercial arts, real arts.

Matthew Dols 19:34
Nowadays, they have also painting and photography as well. But in the time it was more more for this real life profession. So I applied for animation, maybe two times or three that I don’t know. I remember and maybe two times or three times for illustration that I never was I was like, going to the second second. I have to say Yeah, but at the end of the day, I was baby fifth. And they took two. And I went next year and I was, I don’t know why. So I, in a few years, I tried this course, but as well I tried Dumbo like theater to be seen. Yeah, set designer said designer, or I tried animation that fumble once I remember I was six they, they took five. Originally it was like, okay, they didn’t take me. Okay, next year, I will go to other school. But it wasn’t a good plan. The plan is to follow on school, again and again. But I went to other schools to different schools. So a few years I tried in this universities, I was studying this heist, this high school is a bottle of Halawa High School. And then after high school I applied for this Charles University art education. It was I think, second year, they opened only at the Art Education subject. So no, like Czech language, and art education or English language and art education. So I applied and I like was first who was on the line. And I started out, but I still every year applied for this universities, as I said before the school and that’s cool. So at a second year, I think I went through Academy I thought, I started to love graphic printmaking, because I had a teacher when I’m working making, and I do I love lithography and letterpress, those are my two favorite. I it’s more most of them, a lot of things make mainly little cards and easy things but others my money I tried everything. So I felt brave I ever tried Academy, printing also sorry.

Sylva Francova 22:05
Screen printing, many, many, many, many screenprints. So I was studying this university and I applied, it was secret the score because they felt this university should be here. But I still has this energy I would like only to do art and to do to study this art, really art school. So I applied for this academic fine art. And first year I didn’t get there. But I had consultation with my teacher as a future teacher. And he advised me to go there again. And when I went again last the second year, it was my last attempt I was old enough, I was quite old. Do they do they actually limit how many No, no, no, no limit. And at this art schools, usually people are older. But I was I think 23 or 24 when I was a first year. So when I when I was after the middle of University of pedagogy education, at art education, I go I started to study Academy of Fine Art Finally, and I are thinking what to do if you have to do this both schools, Mother Teresa, you sort of want it what I would say is sort of almost backwards, like doing art education first, and then visual arts as a sort of a medium second. Most of the people I know, they go into Visual Arts, they take their art school training, and they basically sort of realize like, Oh, crap, I’m never gonna be able to make a living at this. I’m never gonna be famous. I’m never gonna be whatever. So I’ll become an art educator. Or come to that. Yeah, sometimes. The opposite way. Yes. Yeah. And because I had more than half finished from the art education, I thought, Okay, I have only two years in ahead of me. So I finished and I saw I did this two schools together. It was quite special. Interesting, but it was neither in both schools are nice. And they accepted me this the history things from that school, and they accepted my art things from other schools so it could be studying together. Okay, so my dream happened, and I was finally at the Art Academy of Fine Art printmaking studio. And I left that. Yeah. So then you get out of school and where there are jobs waiting for you or what did you have to do? Did you have to get part time jobs? Did you jump straight into teaching? So, you know, basically, like, how do you Okay, you got these great credentials, beauty, good education. You have all the stuff. What do you do with it? Yeah, you mean while I was studying? I was quite lucky because my parents supported me. So and I One year before I went to the Academy, I already married I married very early. So I was 2324 or before 24. So I started to study as a married woman. So my husband was also so kind he supported he paid like living. And I had some very small part time jobs. But because I was studying first two years, these two schools two universities together, I had no time to study for money, I had no time. So I did like a silkscreen painting or I painted cups I have here around somewhere. So I walked and I did see the smaller small jobs like painting your this thing so like tchotchke Yes, sort of smaller, or I don’t know, if I started with illustrations that are maybe later like late later, I started with illustrations, but I didn’t have the type of job like to be a waitress or something like that. So you and that’s an interesting thing, because some people I talked to say, get a job that’s has nothing to do with your creativity. So you can hold back all your creativity for when you have free time to do your own work. Whereas some other people say you are creative, so get a job in the creative fields so that you can sort of use your creativity even in your job even if it’s not your personal artwork. So you went you couldn’t do the the waitressing or buddy stuck I tried

Matthew Dols 26:35
some special jobs for example, when I was studying us scholarship when I was a scholarship in Ohio I did this model like figure model for painters or for drawing lessons but I didn’t like it at all I’m quite shy, but I did it for example this type of job or I did some others but mainly I did this art jobs I liked it I liked and I was lucky to have it. And usually I noticed some people says this that it took analogy but in my life usually all my jobs which I have bring Smee lot for my own art. So I understand I’m doing a podcast about art I wouldn’t I wouldn’t land through some challenge to do something is really the most challenge to to learn animation and to learn how to do jingles for television and so on was a lot of you wrote music no jingles evening jingles it’s like art art pieces before and after. Some broadcasting of television visual illustrations for animation or visual visual visual jingles I worked in television a few years fascinating.

Sylva Francova 27:56
So all my jobs gives me a lot and to have helped me to learn a lot so easily. It was very very inspiring. For all my all things idol. So what and then when you left University, what would work? Give me like a little summation of like your career path like so. Did you Okay, jump into a job Did you did you find out why the new jobs I should have done but I didn’t. I had twins. Just after my finishing we have Academy of Fine Art. I had my have to say final final art work. thesis final thesis. I changed during my study subject. I didn’t do printmaking, but I changed for new media and photography. I was at scholarship in London and into you in second year of my studies. Maybe you were in Ohio at one point. Yeah, well, where’d Ohio, Ohio State University cuz I taught at Bowling Green State University. Oh, yeah, the second biggest University in us life experience. And they were the most it was in London. I love traveling I love it was my dream to study abroad It was my big dream. So I applied in the scholarship anytime it was possible. So when I was in the second year of the Academy of Fine Art, and it was in our school at Academy, it was usual to go abroad to for scholarship later somewhere in fifth year because Academy study you can study sixth year we are started six years quite long school. So usually in fourth or fifth year, you are going to have some experience from some scholarship. But already from in first year I applied. And it happened they took me it was I was quite lucky. And in the second term of second year, I went to London to study in London. And there I found photography I found that it’s very important for me it was like New work for me and I didn’t know that before. But I loved that I found it very instructive and very good for my for my but I would like to express. I love that I’m a photographer. So that’s great. I love it. And I borrowed cameras there and it was possible to develop them in a car darkroom and black and white darkroom. So when you can develop your own color photography, black and white photography. My father did it at home. So I knew how to do that, like black and white, but its color process. It was very new for me. So it changed me a lot this London, half Europe in London, it changed my all my feeling because I saw ordered galleries and I visited everything and I left in the flight opposite of Tate Modern, it was quite Wow, excellent exchange, because by chance I left in the flight of student who was quite rich. Beautiful. I lived there and lived in Maida Vale and it was lovely. It was right around the corner from the guy who wrote Sherlock Holmes like so it was a lovely neighborhood I liked it wasn’t a very long time. So it was wasn’t so excellent for for money, because I spent all my scholarship for travel license for traveling to the third zone to Middlesex University. I started

so this this living next to the Tate Modern, come on. Yeah, but I had no money. I told, you know, students have money when they’re traveling abroad, like we all do that we all that’s why youth hostels exist. That’s why it exists. Like we’re all poor when we do.

Yeah, so it changed my life very much. And then I then I changed my studio, I began to study photography and new media Academy. So my thesis was photography approach project, which was quite successful in the time, and I exhibited then later, very many, many places also abroad. So after after school, I could fly away and to do my art career, but I had just exactly how fear after finishing of Academy of Fine Art, I had twins, why, and that’s an interesting issue that comes up is family obligations as just a general whole. So like in yours, it would be specific to you having children, but I mean, even if it was your husband, I mean, the husbands need to then also sort of be there and be part of the household. So how much did that affect your sort of trajectory of your career having children at that time? I think very much. I do very much because I was quite happy to have children and to have twins, it was very difficult first years, twice. Wait, are twins twice as much work because some people say it’s twice as much. Some people say it’s only 50% more. I can’t say it in percentage. I think it depends on the children. I know some boys who are sleeping all days. But our girls were very active from childhood. So two years I didn’t sleep at all during night devils waking up 15 times a night or during night and very much a very, very active, they still out there they are teenagers and they are still very active. What is different? So you don’t have to be there for them. Yes, yes. And my husband is normal, regular work. So he went into home at six seven every day. So I was all day taking care about children. So I loved that but for my saving my my peredo savings, my art feeling I had to do some so I’ve continue in my in my doing art, but mainly in the time if I remember I felt Okay, I’m doing that to not to be crazy. Yeah, because I felt sometimes I’m completely exhausted. I was completely exhausted. First year I was I was completely feeling every night every morning that I was doing some the most hard work because I’m breastfeeding all night. So it was quite, quite difficult. But yeah, that’s that’s tough. I have some offers of exhibitions. So I did some exhibitions and a little bit my art from TCS, I was exhibiting some places. So I did this and I continued slowly, very slowly with some art projects, which I did. So I had I had some exhibitions, I did something and my parents helped me sometimes to take care about a lot sometimes very often or very much but they also had jobs so it couldn’t be everyday. And I i when you’re working also I mean it’s not like you were a single mom, no, no, my husband was helping as well. Okay, it was it was give me all credit. There is no parents and husband of course of course I couldn’t do anything without them was very helpful and I could little bit Those are my art and very Very great for me, it was Ivana price in some photography competition, or I don’t know how to how to explain. Like, you’re showing your work too many portfolio reviews for gazzarri performative in Bratislava. And I think it was two years of girls or three little girls. And I felt I would like to do that and to go there and to see how it works. And I know this portfolio review, and I went to Bratislava. And I felt completely exhausted, I prepared some my portfolio and I worked a lot to prepare my portfolio because it was sometimes from school and I didn’t have anything to show. So I put my work in that. So it gives me a lot of energy. Because at the end I after, just before they say your Hoover one, I just say okay, I’m going, I’m going home and some lady came to me Oh, no, no, no, don’t go. It’s just going to be saying Hold on, I don’t worry, I’m going, I am busy. It’s always the person that cares the least that actually ends up being the winner. Yep. So it gives me a lot of energy. And I they offered me exhibitions, and they also some lists of portfolio.

Matthew Dols 36:21
shot my work in some magazines. So it was it was an important step for me. Because in the time, I didn’t believe very much amongst myself, I was taking care of kids all the time. So it helps me a lot to win this. Our industry is tough that way, like we’ve we all feel the need to have outsiders somehow say that we’re good. I mean, we feel confident that we’re making good work. But we almost need that that reassurance from some, you know, competition, portfolio review, editor, gallery owner, whatever, dimeo collector, it’s difficult, like, I mean, I’m thinking of people that work like nine to five jobs, non creative jobs, let’s say, they don’t need that. They go in, they do their job, they go home, that’s it, they don’t need that outside sort of confidence boost. I mean, there’s a certain amount of self confidence we all need. And then there’s a certain amount of outside reassurance that what we’re doing is quality. And they’re not important because of this insurance, because I felt like, okay, I lost my art. And I didn’t need so much like saying to our guides, I don’t know doesn’t need it. I don’t need it so much. But it was more important for because I was stealing my short, I had no time for art, and I was stealing this short time for my children, or I said family, okay, I would like a little bit to do. And so this, this, saying, Your Honor, goodbye, it was good for days, that’s okay, you’re stealing your time for children, but it’s good, it has some reason. So I felt well for this validation to the whole thing. So that it wasn’t just, I need some time away from you all, but it’s doing nothing. Like you had to, I need some time away from you all, and I win an award for that time. It’s the hard part. It’s the part we don’t talk about very much, though. I mean, it’s the there’s the old saying that like you get 10 bankers together, they talk about art, you get 10 artists together, they talk about finance. Like everybody talks about the thing that they don’t do for a living basically. So, you know, I’m interested in I’m interested in how people make a living, how people don’t make a living, you know, like, why why do people end up having to do all these side jobs and other things. And I mean, like, I’m sure like myself, you would love it. If you could just be 100% artist and didn’t have to teach even though you love teaching, you would prefer to be 100% artists and make all your money from that you do the teaching, kind of because you just have to you need the regular income, whatever else kind of thing. Why do we have to do that? Why Why can’t there be a strong enough industry that we don’t have to do like three or four different little part time jobs to make it so that we can have the free time and the free energy in our minds to be able to be creative? Yeah, it’s very complicated, difficult question. I was I was over thinking or how people do that, that there are some people or my former colleagues from university they are earning money from their fine art from selling paintings at a few of them. I always felt when I was at Academy when I was studying, I went to some gallery and I offered them my printmaking in the time. First years at Academy when I still did printmaking. And I offered them I they accepted and I sell this might print my thing become huge future a one formats. And I think now for very big money. And it was good for them. And was was fine. It was for me. And then after I don’t know, I did one or two years, and I then I quit with printmaking. I started to do photography and is photography is a tough sell.

Sylva Francova 40:40
I loved that, and I didn’t know printmaking. I love it still, but it’s more than just photography. And my gallerist he told me why are you’re not doing this printmaking, you should do that you should continue I was what was quite good for him to have this income from that. I don’t know how many percent I don’t remember how many 50 idea. But I thought okay, but so so I should do this print making prints for him for money. I should have that like people are having come earning from that they have gallerist and they know this is selling well. If does it have some some influence on them? Or it was my question for myself. So I go with it. I didn’t do that. Because I thought okay, I should do that. Because Oh my god, he says that it’s good. It sells well, but didn’t like it. I do what I feel. See, that’s a fascinating choice that you’ve made because it makes you happy. Some people have this experience that they can do that and they are doing what they won’t. And it’s they are selling and it works. But I don’t know if it would work for me. But I was photography. This This business is not so great. And I’d never never start photography only few times I’m a photographer photography is a very difficult fine art market. And the being commercial photographers, one thing that that’s a different thing. But being a fine art photographer. People don’t like to pay reasonably good prices like they were not willing to because they they they know they believe that we’re just going to reprint and reprint and reprint it and so they’re not

Matthew Dols 42:24
going forward is this addition at all, it’s drives me nuts. But anyways, but yeah, okay. But I find it fascinating. You were part of a gallery, you have a gallery who was successfully selling your work, and you chose to stop that.

Sylva Francova 42:40
I mean, most artists in the world I have a student It was quite a long time ago. But most artists would are dying to get even a gallery to be willing to sell their work much less actually selling their work and having money in from it. I mean, most of the artists leave if you take the world, most artists in the world don’t sell their work at all. Then there’s a percentage that have a gallery that sells some works. But then there’s the even smaller percentage that are selling a good amount of works. And then, of course, there’s smaller and smaller as they get higher in their echelons. But But you had that you had a gallery selling your works. And you left it you chose to change mediums. Yeah, because it also in the time that I changed my subject of my interest I space I started to study his photography and I loved photography at a stable like I wanted to do photography. So when I met my glorious he was little bit not angry, but he was angry behind behind your back. Maybe. And but my feeling goes strong. I would like to continue his photography, and I would love to do that. And yeah, it was great. So in the time, I didn’t think about any business. I never think so much about business. And that’s what I did. From the time I had no interest anymore. And from that time No, no, no. Okay, I had no and from the time I didn’t sell photography only few times that happens. But I didn’t miss this non commercial photography. So I didn’t even didn’t not try to sell I didn’t the the type of exhibitions which is like this, this price. My exhibitions offer is very result price, right? Like except the expecting that somebody will come and take it or buy it. Well, that’s a common thing to hear is oftentimes there will be exhibitions that don’t put prices up. Yeah. And even when you ask the prices, oftentimes the people that working there like I don’t know what the price is, yeah. It just was never even thought that there would be a sale going on. So that’s an interesting thing that happens here but so you never went back To the gallery industry, so you’d love to if some guy able to offer me you’d like to be inside. But just to be clear now though, you’re not doing photography anymore. Oh, yeah. Last year’s I don’t do that so much, right, you’re primarily more toward or you’re being known for this point, your reputation is more based on your illustrations and your books and things like that. It’s still photography, it’s still continual, that I did it a long time. And as a still, some people maybe know me, or few people that I did photography, and I still love it. But I last few years, I did my artists book, and it took me all my time on all my life, and also family and my earning money. So I had no time anymore to do photography. So it’s not like I’m quitting and saying, I will do only books now. I just in the time felt, I would love to do this, my own artists book and it was so strong for me. And I put inside all my energy and all my art feeling. And I felt like an art piece. So and I okay, and I talk to artists all the time. And everybody I mean, I’ll even admit myself included. So I’m sort of fascinated by this process here. I would love to make an artist book. So walk me through how did you do it? Well, so the the idea of it the artistic stuff, not that I’m not interested in it, but it’s not as interesting. I think for the purposes of this podcast, the the conceptual like, how did you build it? And then how did you pitch it? How did you find money for it? How did you find a publisher like these kinds of sort of ends of it all? Like, what how did you do that? That’s one of those nebulous, sort of like, how do people make art books? So what process did you use to make that work for you another great process? Now, do you want to hear all the long story like how it started that idea to do right, because so I, I took care about kids and I did a little bit art for my feeling well, and I did some exhibitions, I did my art, but not for money for my own pleasure or for my passion that I have it, and so on. But after an I did some little jobs like stration, cover illustration cover for books, for example, or

I don’t remember I did some very small jobs, but I could do at home very, I helped my friend to do some Photoshop, things at a computer or retouching, some graphic design are all this type of jobs. So I did this jobs, that we all have to do it into your world and fit into your time fit into your skill set. So I learned a little bit from that. And I had some also it was good to talk to have some portfolio of this commercial things like illustrations or cover books or graphic design or some posters or logos and so on. So I did this work. So after Vanguards metaphor, I met my friend and I told her I would like to have a job. I’m finishing this time of service. The girls have to be completely at home. They are starting to have some education or have to say some getting going to school. Yeah, yes, I’m getting out of the house. Yeah, some kids kids kindergarten. So by chance, she told me no, I’m just starting to work in television, which is just just starting new television. So I will ask, so she asked and they accepted me. And I started part time to go there. One day, a week, two days a week. So at the end, it was 55 days a week and I started to work like a graphic designer or graphic artist at television that was new job for me. It was excellent. And it become a start because in the past I loved as I told you I did the sell screen and painting ceramics I did special creators for this I invented a very huge amount of creatures for that. Like maybe a little bit inspired by word of foreign manifests or my power my father his pant or just so all that’s more create a small animal so how to say like dinosaur, very small. Okay, so I invented my old word of what Volker I don’t know how to say the creatures or how to say that English creature national fantasy creatures. So I went to my boss at a television soda to hear that. So I did Jingo How to say for animation for Tata for his children. fairytale. He says like the intro In the intro intro intro, I was quite successful it was in that time very, very successful. So then I did some what areas give me give us a decade like, okay, I started to work there in 2009 Oh, wow. Like recent few years. Yeah. So I did this eye toys I like like plays for children and illustrations, I started a lot of things from that purchase, visit creative design. So it and then finally it started to do they started to make magazine. So I did all magazine for children. So it was quite successful error was this I was really very busy. And I created this magazine and a comic comics and fairy tales and ordered place for more children. Everything was this creatures, everything I did design, ideas, and I did also art. And it allowed me a lot, a lot of be very much because every month I had to do this magazine to do comics, little strips. Everything was really I was working all days. And it was really hard. But I started to work in this children fairytale world. I didn’t do that before. Like illustration, I did some illustration books, but only I think one in a time or whatever it was illustration for adult, maybe if I remember, for in the time, when I started to do this type of job. I also had children. So it was worked for me, I can have children in the age, they can love it. Yeah, they were your testing

was for them to do all that all the things, you can see that the toys there, right, then I want my creature to have I have toys on my desk too. It’s fine. So I did design for toys. And so for this one toy, so it was a big experience. So my. And then I did this magazine, I think three years. And it started to be worse and worse, because there was new new publisher is starting to push me to do it more commercial, and so on and so on. So every month I was narrowly crying, they are changing my work, they are putting too much commercial inside out, they’re putting big cars around and putting their some designer, which I don’t like. So I was very, very unhappy from that. So the time I invented, I will do my own work, I will put my energy which I have I my ideas into work, and in my own work or own thing. And it was very, very unhappy from this magazine. So I invented I was in Berlin, and I saw there many, many books for children about Berlin. And I was living all my life in in Prague. So I said, Okay, I will do a book about Prague for children. So I starting, I started the time to invented book, like, adult product for children. But also, later on, I have found that I should do give their story. So I was very inspired of my children of my daughters of twins. So I put inside the story about twins and story about relationship of two girls, which are finding way one from one to other. And everything happens this adventure. So ordered book took me from this first idea until the publishing five years was quite long, right? Because I also work for money. But this work was for almost no money at the time all that inventing, and I finally have it where and that’s sort of the things I’m trying to get to is like how do you juggle the things you need to you need to do for money with the things you need to do for your magazine. And then they quit with me at the end. And in the time I started to illustrate books they’d offered me by chance of my friend was working there. I keep hearing a common thread with you that your friends, your friends. Yeah. All my all my all my life. I think all my jobs that from France. And that’s something that like a lot of people in the arts have difficulty with that. We don’t realize just how important that community and network of friends and associates. But most of it a lot of people in the arts or we don’t have a lot of friends, let’s say yeah, I mean, we’re introspective people work where we keep to ourselves in most cases. And a lot of us don’t have very big networks, like very big networks where people around I love people and I love my friends when you have the luck of like that you were born and raised in and so you have literally an entire lifetime of friends, your your parents also from here, and this is something like I’ve noticed through these conversations that I’m Having on this podcast and reflecting on my own life is that I believe I made some horrible mistakes in my life because I kept moving, I kept changing and moving to New cities and new states, new countries, new continents, and I kept losing my networks and my friends in the end. Partly, it’s my own fault, not blaming them. But that’s how I’m meeting new or new. It’s also great, yeah, but you’re but you’re not new, they’re not as strong. They are they, I should say they take, they take work to not only make new friends, but keep new friends. And to continue those relationships, especially in adulthood, it’s more difficult, like, my friends from childhood, I could fall back in and just have a conversation with them, no problem, we could, you know, whatever. But my friends that I met in adulthood, it’s a little it takes a little bit more effort. Because we have kids, we have family obligations, we have all these other things. And so it’s a little bit more difficult to sort of build and maintain those relationships in adulthood. So I’m, what I’m trying to say is like, you have this the this great luxury of having a network that you have built literally from birth, because you haven’t really left, but you’ve done it, you’ve done what was recommended by another person on podcast, a curator, which is basically have a home base. So your home base is Prague, and then you travel and you go somewhere else and you learn something experience, and then bring that something back to your life here. And then you incorporate incorporated here. And like that idea is one of the best ideas for artists. And

I didn’t plan it, I plant I maybe I would be happy to stay in London, if I wouldn’t be married before I went there. I was so great. London, I love that. But I came back because I was married, I had already a husband here. So in my childhood, or when I was younger I left to be abroad or did this idea to totally live abroad, it will be great, maybe in a future life, but it happened by chance that I’m I’m in Prague, and I’m still still living in Prague, but but I think it’s to your benefit. I think I also did this book about Prague because I found that I love Prague. I love it. I like through this book, I found it because I had to study so many books about Prague and all that history as a lot of sort of materials about that and I walked a lot about in Prague and I found how I don’t know even I grew up here that I didn’t know so many places and it was so inspiring for me well i’m i’m currently in your your studio here and I’ve never even been to this neighborhood. This is a brand new neighborhood debate and I’ve been coming here off and on for six years so

it’s very easy to finally Yeah, I know that I’ve been close by but not here. So you know it’s very interesting that you can be in a city for decades and they’re suddenly suddenly you realize oh there’s that whole side of town I’ve never been to

but anyways let’s go back to your so you left doing the the animation work and you’re in the magazine and now you Your friend is helping you get books and illustration jobs Yes, it make it somehow it was like together it wasn’t like this this cut completely. I still walked in with magazine I was not satisfied. So I invented this idea and I started slowly to to think about that and to study to study books and and so on write something and so on. And so I had a few pages or pictures picture of pictures of this future book of Prague the name should I say name? Sure. I just padlock on Arlo. You’re welcome to publicize your stuff. You have a website for this or anything. I don’t have either. Can people buy it online? Yeah, of course of course through most publishers or most book shops have it amazon.com I don’t know if my Amazon it’s in check. So only checker book stores have it all, I think doesn’t matter. So when I matter I’m trying to publish in English and book unfortunately, it’s only in Czech. So maybe

another language in English. I would love to what would you people buy image books that have beautiful illustrations even if they’re not in this language. They speak to me about illustration but also about a story about information. So I had this few pages, few double pages for example four of level pages of this future book. Not an all my book looks like This is cover. I don’t show my work around myself. I usually have my friends work around myself I don’t have to have works that are on display. I’m not surrounded by my work. I usually love to see works of my friends and my work. But I don’t have to have pictures on the wall of myself of my work.

Matthew Dols 1:00:25
I understand.So it’s all my all works of my friends and good friends with which they gave me. So about this you do trade artwork. Right, I changed this frame actually. Yeah. I do in the United States. I have this massive art collection of works that I’ve just traded over the years with with people. I’m always wondering like, do people do that in Europe? Do we really trade here? Yes, friends. So yeah. So when I had few few pages I had meeting with my friend who is by chance working in albatross is very big publisher about Rosemary albatross is a big history is the oldest, maybe oldest checker, publisher of children’s books. So I showed her my work. My best friend today went so happy. So you got into the publisher through your friend? Yes. Okay. Yeah, the relationships. Yeah, it was like this. But I didn’t, like, ask her for that. I didn’t say I would like to do this. It was only showing my work to my friend. And she said, Oh, it’s great. Can I show it to my friend in my room, I’m working. I said, okay, but I’m working on that. It’s like secret. Now. I wanted to show it to some people. Very long time later. I did, I felt that I have nothing done. But she showed it to her colleague. And an hour later, she offered me to illustrate some book because she liked this pictures. So she offered me to her colleague. So I had some jobs, I started having jobs, to illustrate children’s books from that moment. So it was great, I love it. But also it Pronk, my, my, my work on my own book, because I had to earn money money offered my book, I did it. I love it. The fact that your friend introduced you to this opportunity is a huge thing. I mean, a lot of us don’t recognize that our peer networks don’t need to be your you are not friends with a publisher you are not friends with a gallery owner, you are not friends are the but you have friends who open doors or created opportunities for you to be able to meet these people who then became influential in your career. Yeah, yeah. And that

Sylva Francova 1:02:54
I mean, that’s something that a lot of us don’t think about.

So anyways, back to your your process of this. So you were then doing illustrations for other books in while trying to do your personal book on the side by this friends.

I had a chance because he she showed her colleague who is picking artists for illustrations. And she saw my first pages of my own book. So she liked and she she offered me to illustrate a book so she offered me one to see how I am what I’m doing I put all my energy inside they love it. And then sometimes it wasn’t the all the time like one book you are doing two or three months. So, I did for example two or four books a year. And next time I started to teach i think if i remember the No no, how it was and I worked and other time was short time I just I worked on my own book. So and I thought to my friend was I think second year I was working on my own book I met with this my friend from albatross and when I showed her this first pages I my feeling was okay i would love when I will have finished most of this book I would love to show it to some publisher small publisher because I always love the small publishers and this market of small publishers. I have books which are published by the small publishers Yeah, the handmade books Limited Edition. I love this word. So I my my aim was to publish in this some small publisher but I never showed my work to them. I said I thought okay, when I will have done this book or prepared a lot for publishing. I will try to find a publisher but it happened by chance by this my friend that I showed her his first pages. And she told me Okay, can you send me this first pages? I would like to show it to my colleague In the room, as I said, on, please, I’m doing for myself, it’s still not finished. I have only a few pages but Okay, so I send it to her. But even I told her don’t to show it to others. She showed it to her colleagues. But then it happened that the main, like chief Dyer, Chief art director, she’s our director. I’ve seen this first pages, and he found that he loves this idea. So I got a call. Shocking call for me. From this chief. We would like to have your book I was called to be To be honest, I was completely shocked because I said, I should be so happy about Ross. It’s great. A very erotic set. Oh, albatross is great is the oldest publisher. But in my heart, I thought I would like to have to publish my book in sport publisher. So we had a meeting. But But this this man, he was very charismatic, charismatic, and very talkative. And he told me, it will be completely What do you want and everything will be great. We’ll give you time because I told him, I have only a few pages. And it will be one year or maybe two years. At the end, it was three years more. So they had to work to wait for this book. So long time because it took me a very long time to prepare and to do all that. Okay, no question on that. So you go into this meeting with this charismatic person. Did you sign contracts? No, no. Only only promises,

Matthew Dols 1:06:31
just handshakes.

Sylva Francova 1:06:33
Yes. Only handshakes. And I still didn’t. I told him I said, what I what I feel I say what I think so even it’s bad for me. So I told him, I don’t know if I would like to publish my book in the public.

Matthew Dols 1:06:45
Yeah, that’s not good.

Sylva Francova 1:06:47
Yeah. But I said, I’m not sure. I don’t know yet. It’s not done. But he saw he was so so nice. And he offered me it will be everything. You would like a magazine and he will follow your ideas. It’s your book your because I said okay, it’s my art book is by artists. I felt it’s not like straight books. It’s completely idea and everything was mine. So it was very strong for me to dislike this book is like my third child, honestly. So I thought all I put all my energy in that. So I wanted to have it great. But while this process or this long process of making my own book, they started to give me this few books each year. So the process was long, longer, slowly, because of this illustrations, but also money. I needed to earn money. And also I felt a little bit okay, they are nice. They were giving me job. So maybe there was this feeling. Okay, I might have brought this on. So you shouldn’t find other publisher. When you have some publishing. They are great. They are doing good. So at the end, I didn’t try to find other publisher, but I go to this are probably part of their coming plan. I don’t know. And I was quite happy. It was nice. And I was happy even even I can’t have my book in this small markets. Because it’s, it’s a for me, it’s a pity. Because a lot of people were my friends loves my book. And they said, okay, he shouldn’t be here. I say okay, but it’s only for small publishers, this market. Okay, but let’s go back a little bit to the logistics of sort of the end of that. So when it came to actually getting to the point of publishing, did you I assume you had to sign a contract of some sort, but completely just before before the publishing, so after many years of working, right, I’ve worked for nothing. I’ve worked for myself on that. And then before it was published, maybe half a year of lost, lost working as preparing final edits, and I signed a contract. Okay, well, my question would be Did you consult a lawyer for that contract? Or did you just trust them? I don’t remember maybe I consulted with my husband in the past and I consulted to some some contracts with with television because I had horrible contracts. So I had some some lawyer who my friend My friend again, gave me contact a good friend gave me a contract of a good lawyer who is making this art art lawyer How to say our contracts are lawyer Yeah. So she helped me in the past but I don’t remember if I if she helps me with this content, maybe maybe I because I wish I knew this. This publishers the contract is done. It’s like you can’t have you can’t change anything. But be didn’t do I negotiate, negotiating I? I asked to friends as well. Maybe I show it to my friend, lawyer. If I remember and listen Say it’s okay. But it was quite normal. And this was in what year? The book came out last year in 2018. So it was

Matthew Dols 1:10:13
really the contract was back to

Sylva Francova 1:10:16
normal. In spring maybe? was last year. Yeah. Last year. Okay.

Matthew Dols 1:10:21
So well, theWould you mind talking a little bit about the contract? I don’t need to like exact financial numbers, but like, how does it work? Like they they paid for what you paid for was what was expected? Were their percentages how to I’ve never done a book contracts? I’m sort of asking like, what is what should What did your book contract look like? As far as? What what what did they expect of you? What should you expect of them? Do you know getting up? Yeah, okay. Yeah, of course, if I know, every publisher has a different, of course, I have now few experiences from other publishers, I did the alterations from others as well. I would love to hear some of those sort of select, every publisher has different different contracts. And usually for normal illustration, you have done money, and is that sometimes it happens you have some money, short money, and percentage, sometimes. So when I walk away, what kind of percentage do they offer? Let’s say so. So the one would be what like work for hire, basically, they say, We want you to do this illustration, we will give you this flat fee, and you’re done with it. Yeah, most of most of my work was like this restaurant only once it happened with other books that I have some small percentage, but I had nothing because the book was not selling. So it was like, the percentage is irrelevant, because it doesn’t actually so yeah, but what but what kind of present so you just did the cover? So let’s take this one book that you did a asking you that you did a cover for it that you then they offered you a percentage or you illustrated

Sylva Francova 1:11:59
my art with my artist book, we mean other books, correct? Yeah. Well, you said there was this one other book that you did that they offered you a personal illustrations was full book full of money, like do you might say, how much percentage did they offer you? I don’t know if I can speak about this detail.

Matthew Dols 1:12:19
It’s up to you to do it, but

Sylva Francova 1:12:22
I don’t remember numbers, if you know what my high school at Columbia High School, but I can say, if I remember, it was very much under 10%. Okay, so like to have an idea that it’s not like 50%, right? Well, that’s your

Matthew Dols 1:12:38
percentage, some small percentage. I’m thinking of it from the side of somebody listening to this, who might be an illustrator who wants to do book publishing. They’re like, how much do I ask for? Like, what’s what’s the nice thing

Sylva Francova 1:12:49
you can negotiate but I didn’t and every publisher has different maybe every author, maybe some famous, famous artists or famous people who who is quite a few can offer that kind of expected that they will have many, many readers, but it was it was my first book and so on. So so my for my other books, other books, it was quite done done money. And for this idea, I call it Aria this my book artists book, it will say that my director, he taught me You can choose you can choose you want to get some shorter money, small money. And bigger percentage I bigger in this amount, like like no big very much. But what quite the bigger. Yeah. And all you can have like little bit more money. And very, very short, very small percentage or low percentage. It depends. So I went into this big How to say like, you don’t know what happened. Yeah. No divert now. Yeah. So I don’t know what to do. My All my friends are friends. I didn’t talk too much about this thing. But that’s not to hear like so like, if you have the option of a large a large sum of an advanced money with a lower percentage on the long term versus a less money initially advanced, and a higher percentage. Like, you don’t know if the books gonna sell Yeah, what’s the right choice? I said, my family, my father especially he asked me very much I love him very much, but he didn’t believe so much that people will buy it or to this difficulty of this first book. That anxiety that my route is by saying you have maybe you should take more money and no percentage, less percentage. Yo percent one never looked no less. I don’t know. But I thought my imago in myself, I felt okay, but it’s my baby. It’s my book, and I believe it in it and I will like to have like feeling, okay, when people buy it, I feel it’s good for me. So I wanted to have this feeling. So I went through this vibe for this bigger percentage, because then every time I see my book in the window, window stores, and it was many, I was quite happy for that I thought all cried and people are gonna like it. And it was also one reason I bought it at the end of was happy for this publisher because it’s the biggest publisher. My book was in every store in Czech Republic. So I was happy that every even people who are not involved in artists books in this field of books, I Converse market on books, which I love this word, but they are selling special books, I love it. But I would like to normal people in small village in small towns can buy my book, even now, it’s so many books that it’s the choice to find it. Well the choice to go with the high percentage and low advance, it also makes it so that you’re a bit more invested in it so that you’re going to put more effort in and maybe use social media more, maybe do more book signings or readings or anything, like you’re gonna work a little bit harder. Yeah, maybe for yourself if I felt it like this, but maybe it’s behind that. I’m happy for every book, which I sign a sign many, many I did some many talks or many, many workshops and some talks in some bookshop and signed signing books and I I signed 100 times. It made me happy, but maybe I don’t know if it was also for money that I have some some cons for each book. But also I’m happy that people like the book of course, we all love it when people like our art, whatever it is. And it has done well I take it

Matthew Dols 1:17:00
Yeah, is there was there like so when you sign this contract the contract, say anything about like, reprints and multiple editions and like it’s I mean, how elaborate was this? How far in the business? Like how far in advance was the thought process of this whole thing? You know,

Sylva Francova 1:17:19
I don’t remember like completely the years. But they have for many years for many, many, many years. They can publish reprinting and all that was done I want one or print so but they didn’t

Matthew Dols 1:17:33
so you’re on your second printing already.

Sylva Francova 1:17:35
But in check field check check market you know, it’s not like English when you publish a book in 1000s of millions hundreds like in the past in socialistic regime, it was good book and you are selling 100,000 pieces of book.

Matthew Dols 1:17:53
That’s pretty good. That’s pretty good.

Sylva Francova 1:17:55
He also passed it was normal the Good Book was was published you can see on the back of the trash, how many how many principles but my book was 3000 Okay, it’s quite normal first printing 3000 off not expecting much quite normal quite both. But so the second edition so now it’s 6000 so I will see how it’s so many books so I don’t expect that we will do third edition but it will be great. So you sold out the 3000 and already so within one year really of the original publishing you’ve already gone to a second edition with a 6000 I was really lucky and happy

Matthew Dols 1:18:32
to me I’m impressed

Sylva Francova 1:18:34
I was really happy but I don’t know how it happened I didn’t know much like I showed my work on the on my book on the Facebook and I I did the big like opening party It was like Sunday It was my dream day because hundreds of more than 100 people came and I was really happy with my friends came and bought books and recommend other others friend and some my friend bought 10 books like total gave a present for others so I was really really happy that I that my friends supported me like this but also many people avoid don’t know bought it and I found this market about I didn’t know before our money this podcast or maybe more like Facebook Speeches, speeches about books and instagram instagram

Matthew Dols 1:19:25
like some This is great this leads on to a question that I asked everybody social media

Sylva Francova 1:19:32
so they put my book there even if I did anything for that but they put my money on it I checked on internet what I did I checked a fine book somewhere in some interview or in some in some review so it wasn’t some review nice review about my book so i i saw all try they found my book and then they did the code review and the percentage they gave me and then I also found that someday speeches speakers at Instagram or videos about books. They put my mother. I don’t know how it happened. Well, that’s what I was hearing. And if any people have that the publisher do No, no, they don’t i don’t know public relations may be one founded and others are following one. Or maybe they also they also like that. I believe they like my book, but I don’t know that it happens also, you have an amazing story of just like knowing the right people in the right places. And I was so so lucky. I think I was so lucky. But but maybe it was my you know, expecting I was doing for that. I love it. Yeah, maybe the trick was your low expectations. Yeah. And I did five years this book I was completely I wanted to have it as great as possible no compromise. Even it will be for no money. Because I didn’t do that for money. I didn’t I did it because I was angry for my publisher of magazine. So I’ve said I wanted to do my own artwork. And because I not doing exhibitions this year, so I didn’t do so much exhibitions or other more artwork. I put all my patient for art to this book. So it was like my doing art exhibition about photography, instead of that I did this book. Yeah, so so it was same for me.

Matthew Dols 1:21:20
Alright, thank art. I haven’t changed or Change of topic. I have a question. Big question, conceptual question, philosophical question. So for you looking forward or you can look at your past to find but I’m thinking more look forward to be able to say that you were a successful artists now you can interpret the word success however you would like and it’s up to you. And that’s sort of what the question is, what would define and what would make you feel like you had a successful artistic career? How would you feel is that like to give you an example some other people’s ideas of financial security exhibitions at the Tate Modern, etc, etc. Like what like what what would be something that would say, Did this successfully for you? Well,

Sylva Francova 1:22:14
there’s no right answer there’s no wrong answer. It’s your answer. Yeah. I don’t know. I don’t I don’t think about success so much. I don’t know I especially for me for like myself if I’m successful or not, I was thinking about I’m not successful, like artists who are exhibiting hightide modern and I admire that i think it’s it’s being successful in art and you have exhibitions and the great places and you don’t have to compromise you feel good with what you’re doing. As I said, you don’t have to do things which are selling well. So it sounds to me like you’ve used that word compromise numerous times. So it sounds like basically happiness or success for you would be basically being able to live the life you want to live without compromise. Yeah, it would be great yeah, it would be great. So maybe from some age I I felt that I didn’t want to push others to either know to like my art are todo todo muy toto make me exhibition or other yeah I very slowly I felt you need very much of energy to to get some grants for art or to have residency I had no medicine and saved my life. Well, that’s Yeah, I was gonna scholarship but then I applied only twice its role maybe once or twice I don’t remember. So I ended up applying because I tried and it didn’t happen. So I don’t believe and also residency are for youngers usually it’s done is it’s you can go if until you are certified. Not true at all. Maybe not. But I didn’t try and it would be I would love to go to summer residency. So I maybe it’s that’s why I started nowadays the last few years to do books because I can’t do it at home. I don’t have to push it anywhere. I don’t have to be friends with craters and Toto to go to some special gallery. In the past that happened that they offered me in galleries have offered me some exhibitions. But then you have also to show your work and to go through some competition and to competition for Gary and my personality. I’m not like big. I don’t enjoy that so much. I am not so like feeling that it’s it’s good to put energy in that. It takes a lot older I energy I have to put energy to my work then more than promoting work and trying to have a career in art. So I It just happened that I started to do a book and I love it. So maybe I will do also some others work but this vert around galleries and get to put money into exhibition to have to have fun and glory takes a lot of a lot of energy.

Matthew Dols 1:25:17
It does indeed.

Sylva Francova 1:25:18
And I don’t have so much energy I was safe my time for things which I love. So what what’s on the horizon? What’s the next thing you’re going to do now that you you’ve accomplished your first goal of creating this one book? What’s next? I would love to do other book. Okay. Yeah, I also do you have other ideas? Yeah. Font font idea, and I would love But again, I have no time. As usual, what do you what are you doing then? What was the what other? Well, I am finishing my PhD so the topic is also books so so but artists photography books. So it’s not like from from nothing that I did to this artist book because I might patient for books, if takes long time. I love books all the time. And it’s like a middle of my it’s the middle of my interest, like books, and art and photography. And I like all the things together. Oh, yeah, I’ve studied with bookmaking, professors, both my undergraduate and my graduate degrees, like I love handmade books, I’m a huge fan. But they’re very time consuming and very tedious to to accomplish a long time. I also like to study for the book. Also, it was wasn’t the only art but it was also inventing the idea, the story, what it will be about. So I also like the studying for the book, this the things not only to be artists, but also to be inventor or to be a writer a little bit. But I don’t think myself about myself as a writer. But I like to do that and to go through this long process. I also have some offer of exhibition, but because I can do so many things together, I’m doing many things together. But I can’t do so many things together. So for inventing some idea for photography, all my my projects took a long time I did long time projects, a lot of energy inside. So now I don’t have time to invent, like photography project. Wait, let me get this straight. You’ve been offered exhibitions, and you’re saying no to them? Not yet. But I will have to find time to invent new new project for that because they doesn’t want to buy old stuff. So I will have to invent new. And I will see if I will have time.

Matthew Dols 1:27:55
I wish I had problems.

Sylva Francova 1:27:58
No, it’s more than me because I’m new to this market. So the the European market is very foreign to me, literally. I know that sounds cliche, but like, it’s very foreign to me, but it works very differently. It’s very sort of clicky and sort of regional. So like check galleries, check your play exhibition places, like supporting Czech artists. And same thing Germany, Poland, you know, I mean, all the places around it’s very regional. And so I’m coming in as an outsider with no contacts no friends no didn’t grow up here. All that and it’s it’s, they’re not as receptive as I had. imagined they would be. I hope it I hope that people are waiting for work from from abroad. I will be new. I will be at a lot of residences, lots of meat factory, you can you can have residency applied to that. I didn’t even get a roof. They didn’t even respond with an email. They nothing. I’ve even spoken with the person he did a podcast. Yeah, they did. Maybe it should, it should be okay to believe and to try again. Like, but I’m not doing that. So I applied for residency advice. And then I didn’t try again, because I’ve heard stories about residency is that like, sometimes I’ve heard joking stories that basically, some curators at these kinds of things like they, when they see it for the first time, they just put it away, they don’t even look at it, they see it a second time they just put away and when it comes in the third time, then they’ll actually read it. Yeah, maybe it’s like this. They want to see that you’re sort of you really have a need and a passion to be whatever and they want to see those repeating applications that a lot of people like first application basic first applications almost often are very much denied, though they want to see you continually come back and come back and win back. But to me, that’s a wives tale. That’s a urban legend. I have no proof of that. Yeah, I would I would advise that what I am not able to do that. But I would say it’s it’s true. It’s it takes time excitement in all people has to believe in that and do it again and again. All right, last question my podcast, you have never listened to one of my podcasts, this will be very interesting. For the podcast, I tried to create a quantifiable outcome. So the idea of the podcast is to learn how the art world works, the visual arts industry works. And so I tried to create a quantifiable thing that I’m going to do. So whatever it is, you’re about to tell me your answer to this question, I will go do it in reality, and I will make the process of what I do into its own little sub podcast, like a little, just a weekly little update thing. So the question is, I would like to get a piece of my artwork exhibited in the Museum of Modern Art in New York City. How do I do that?

Matthew Dols 1:31:02
Whoa, yeah, it doesn’t have to be a big gesture. It’s just like, what can I do to start walking down the path or start down the process of getting there? What would you recommend?

Sylva Francova 1:31:17
Hmm, I don’t know if I will be very, everybody says, I don’t think it’ll be very helpful to skip over that. Yeah. Okay, I didn’t want to talk that helpful. But I would say only that you will do what you love. You had to do that you believe in making photos or Audi or doing some paintings. And you have some idea, and you don’t think about that modern gallery or the gallery, I would think about them of Museum, sorry, I will think about the art and to do too big to give all the energy and patience in art and believe that it’s good, because you aren’t giving everything to that, and that it happens. But the way it’s long, I don’t know, how are the other steps like to automate and where to go maybe other steps like this. But for myself, I would think about that. Only. Do what you like, and do it best, as soon as you code and put all your energies in that. So your evil, evil, evil belief in your what you’re doing. So it will be great with that orange. I believe every artist believes that what they’re doing is great, but it’s still sitting in their studio. So the question is how to get out from their studio? Yeah, you could say, maybe I’m saying I chose Museum of Modern Art. Yes, a Tate Modern, you could say any large, maybe you should go there and to find the fine director and to him work. Right, because they’re just waiting with open doors to wander in with their portfolios. Yeah, it’s not happening. What? Oh, yeah. It’s a tough question. I think I think nobody knows. Yeah, that’s

Matthew Dols 1:33:02
the thing is, if I knew the answer to the question of wouldn’t need to be doing this podcast, I wouldn’t be asking all these different people like what their ideas were, I just remembered, my friend when I was in high school, I was after high school after my horrible High School applying for this illustration subject at university, which was the worst place where to get normally because we’re completely not possible to go there. They were taken when people from hundreds. So my friend who was studying there at this archive of Applied Arts, already at other studio, I asked her how to go there, how to get there. And she told me, okay, this little station is really, really hard. You must call the height of the studio height of this, it was shamone the time because they are overwhelmed of people who are applying or going on consultations, too many people they can pick from so many some of its doesn’t care, they don’t care. So you must tell him I will kill myself on the phone. I will kill myself until you take me and try to make some scene to this phone was a joke advice. But I remember how she taught me this advice. So make some big shocking something. Remember, you will be able to make some sort of a personal connection good or bad. I mean, the one you’re talking about is sort of bad personal connection but but a personal connection basically it may make them remember you Yeah, she will didn’t introduce me was this professional but she gave me this this advice. But what happened I never studied this illustration, my dream, dream story or illustration at prom at the Academy of Applied Arts. But at the end, I was writing books even I didn’t study that. So the way is Do what you like and believe In that or I don’t know how it happened. But I believe in this patient for doing things and then happens, even you don’t believe in that it happens. I believe in that. But maybe I’m wrong. Only time will tell. Yes. All right. Well, thank you very much for your time.

Sylva Francova 1:35:19
I think it was great.

The Wise Fool is produced by Fifty14. I am your host Matthew Dols – www.matthewdols.com

All information is available in the show notes or on our website www.wisefoolpod.com